[lovedatreo]

just found this article:

http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/10/GSM3G.shtml

cant wait to use my Sprint phone in europe after GSM is history.

[cgordonn]

Very interesting read.

[lovedatreo]

isn't it though? just when you start to doubt the power of competition you find something like this.

[Tastypeppers]

Interesting article and I am on GSM. The article is from 2002. I keep looking at Sprint for data speed and price. The ability to get on the plane and get off in Zurich and acquire signal is nice, though.

I guess CDMA may rule the world someday but I will probably buy 40 phones before that happens. I've done 4 in the last 8 months. I like the SIM chip portability that allows this odd behavior. I'll stick with GSM for now, not because I care about one standard or the other but because I buy phones and services that work for me today.

[lovedatreo]

I like the SIM chip portability that allows this odd behavior. I'll stick with GSM for now, not because I care about one standard or the other but because I buy phones and services that work for me today.

dont forget the sim chip is NOT part of GSM per se. it is simply a carrier choice. many cdma phones in japan have sim chips just like gsm. this also of course makes them easier to steal.

[Pearl_Diva]

I would like to see unlocked CDMA phones for worldwide usage, then maybe I'd return. Once they started locking phones to carriers, that sucked. I know it was to prevent theft, but then it became a "let's make it harder for customers to leave" thing.

Yeah, Japan has the world beat. They have 4G, so I heard! If we could get SIMS for CDMA over here, that'd be great!

[lovedatreo]

Yeah, Japan has the world beat. They have 4G, so I heard! If we could get SIMS for CDMA over here, that'd be great!

i believe they are using EV-DV over there which has pretty much been abandoned here in the US for a different path.

[lovedatreo]

actually that may not be true although they do have cdma with ev-do

[taylorh]

Holy cow that was tough get through. Interesting at first, but after a while I was like "enough with the rant, get to the point."
He says WCDMA (UMTS/HSDPA) isn't working. But Cingular has clearly deployed it and it appears to be working.
Does this mean WCDMA is broken at best and limited in growth capacity, or is it simply behind a few years from EV-DO as it goes to v1, v2, etc?
I guess what I'm asking is 3-5 years out, what is likely to be the picture and which will come out as simply the best? Is it that they FINALLY got it working 4 years later after he wrote that.
This article makes CDMA basically sound perfect, which I don't disagree with. But is WCDMA flawed?

Damn it's tough. I'd like to be on the best technology. But for better or for worse, EVERY SINGLE person I know that calls me from a CDMA phone has about 10% of his words distored enough so I have to ask them to repeat what they said. And on almost every call there is some level of this. I almost NEVER have that happen when a person calls me from a GSM phone.
On the other hand, CDMA sounds so much better than the half rate codecs Cingular is using because of the dynamic bandwidth allocation (your voice gets what it needs.) I'm just not convinced because I see people have more problems on CDMA than I ever have on GSM.

And if CDMA is so much more efficient, why can't Verizon drop the prices just a bit on service?

So CDMA people stay on CDMA and get EV-DO along with it.
GSM people are making the technology switch over to WCDMA (and it's a clean break.)

So I think I'll stick with GSM until I have to switch to WCDMA. And at that point I'll go with whichever is workign better.

[lovedatreo]

i dont think wcdma is broken, just behind. in addition, it isnt going to be a very easy switchover as current handsets and towers are completely incompatible and because spectrum must be licensed...its going to be a very difficult switch apparently and its all because Europeans decided to stifle competition.

[marcol]

i dont think wcdma is broken, just behind. in addition, it isnt going to be a very easy switchover as current handsets and towers are completely incompatible and because spectrum must be licensed...its going to be a very difficult switch apparently and its all because Europeans decided to stifle competition.

Those Europeans, you just can't trust them an inch

In the UK all five major network providers, Vodafone, Orange, O2, T-mobile and 3, have functioning 3G networks. I've no idea how difficult the 'switch' was from the perspectives of the four companies that had 2G and then implemented 3G, but from the users' point of view it was, well, invisible. There was none of the mass reissuing of handsets that the article mentions. If you don't want a 3G handset you can just keep using your old 2G device (or buy a new 2G handset, there are still plenty about). If you want a 3G device, buy one and use it. 3G coverage isn't 100% for any provider, but the devices just use the 2G network if you're out of range of a 3G tower.

[lovedatreo]

well, we can argue all day about what is really 3g but i consider the current incarnation of CDMA here in the US 3g even if it isn't. It works just as well as 3g gsm even if it isnt.

[cardio]

Interesting, long, drawn out, 4 year old data. I am sure GSM will be obsolete, as will CDMA, as will EV-DO one day. By the time you can use your Sprint phone in Europe At&T will have bought everyone esle out and you will be forced to use WM9 that Billy Gates Junior has forced into every electronic device in use in the known world.

[marcol]

well, we can argue all day about what is really 3g but i consider the current incarnation of CDMA here in the US 3g even if it isn't. It works just as well as 3g gsm even if it isnt.

I hope no one is arguing (really, the my-wireless-telephony-standard-is-better-than-yours argument is just too silly for words). My only point was that some of the dire prognostications in the very old USS Clueless article never came to pass.

[ronbo2000]

Why do I get the feeling that CDMA users want to GSM out of the way?

Anyway, I don't really care about whether it's CDMA or GSM, I want lower rates, reliable service connection and no locking my phone to a carrier.

[berdinkerdickle]

Why do I get the feeling that CDMA users want to GSM out of the way?

Anyway, I don't really care about whether it's CDMA or GSM, I want lower rates, reliable service connection and no locking my phone to a carrier.

And World Peace

[JackNaylorPE]

I am surprised that the page is still up as here 4 years later, or anywhere from 2 - 16 phones later (dependng upon just how much of a gadget freak you are) these things have not come to pass. I also pretty don't much care what is GSM or CDMA or whatever. What I care about is what each of those give me. All things being equal signal and service wise, I'll take GSM for the longer battery life and SIM cards. If CDMA carriers can match those features, then I am pretty much in the "not caring room" w/ Ronbo.

[taylorh]

Actually, what I want worldwide compatibility.
The author can say what he will about Europe's, crap, the laws, etc, but the bottom line is that there was a continental, no, worldwide standard (GSM) for about 15 years now. If they hand't done something like that it would have been a mess and wireless phones would probabally not have taken off the way they did.
Obviously some things were done the wrong way. But they picked a standard, committed to it, and agreed to all deploy 1 compatible system (by making a law.) In restrospect that law should have had a 5 year expiration date or something to encorage/force the deployment of GSM, then get out of the way and allow for experimentation of new technology. At the time CDMA was considered an ambitious, unproven, plan and GSM was a sure thing.
Weather it's superior, inferior, or what, it worked, worked well, and worked most places.
That's why AT&T got stuck with TDMA. When they chose and committed to digital, that's the best thing they had at the time and just committed to it.

WCDMA, CDMA2K, I don't really care. I just want to use my phone when I travel. It seems like the way 3G deployment is going, there will be no worldwide compatible standard. We finally got so that quad band GSM phones are common, now we'll have to wait to start seing UMTS world phones.

And, lovedatreo, I believe 3G is defined as something like 600kbps download while moving or something like that. I don't remember exactly.
EV-DO (CDMA2000) and HSDPA (WCDMA) (in the US) are the only things truly 3G. Anything before that is 2.5G or whatever you want to call it. Don't mean to argue, just pointing out something I picked up a long the way.

As far as WCDMA goes. The handsets they're building now are HSDPA(or just UMTS) with GSM also. So these devices have both radios to work on both systems. Not the most efficient but it does allow you to use 3G or GSM whever you have wich.

[lovedatreo]

Actually, what I want worldwide compatibility.
The author can say what he will about Europe's, crap, the laws, etc, but the bottom line is that there was a continental, no, worldwide standard (GSM) for about 15 years now. If they hand't done something like that it would have been a mess and wireless phones would probabally not have taken off the way they did.

or perhaps innovation wouldnt have been stifiled and we would have had worldwide compatibility by now. I would liken Europe mandating a wireless standard to mandating something other than tcp/ip for the internet. the reason we all use tcp/ip is that competition wasn't stifiled and therefore the superior technology emerged worldwide.

[DHAnderson]

tcp/ip was never patented, where CDMA is. That can make a huge difference, especially where most mobile phones are sold either at very low margins or below cost in order to attract customers.