[deafinoneear]

Oh I got your point. And yea maybe it was a bit extream and so was mine. But I'm old fashioned and dont care for those doctor types.

But you got to admit anyone who sues a company for loosing data that they should of made dang sure was backed up and couldnt be lost. Are out of thier mind. I'm the type of person that dont depend on others. I dont need to depend on some one to take my kids to school. I take them. Burger king dont make my dinner. I do. Palm dont back up my data. ok they do but I back it up. I have about 167 numbers or so. And I know about 75% of them in my head. See what I am getting at. People shouldnt depend on some one else to take care of something that means so much to them. But thats just me.

English doesn't impose itself on you either, does it?

[bangmatic]

Everyone doesn't have an exchange account. Everyone doesn't want to use Google. It comes down to people wanting to have the option to manage and secure their own data. Locally.

A sheet of paper and pen could certainly take care of that, but then why have a computer?

[dabro]

Everyone doesn't have an exchange account. Everyone doesn't want to use Google. It comes down to people wanting to have the option to manage and secure their own data. Locally.

A sheet of paper and pen could certainly take care of that, but then why have a computer?

All computers eventually fail. The point here is that if the data is really important, you should back it up in multiple places, because if it gets lost, it really doesn't matter who's responsible. It's still lost!

I agree that Palm should provide the ability to sync to your desktop

[GenericMusings]

Palm uses their automatic back up service as a selling point. If they're going to advertise it, it had better work. I direct your attention to this from Palm Services | Palm USA:

"Backup and restore
Back up your Contacts, Calendars, Memos, and Tasks along with preferences and any software downloaded from the App Catalog. Back up runs automatically every day over the air—without interrupting you. Then retrieve the information if you get a new Palm webOS phone by signing into your Palm profile."

Looks to me like Palm is saying that they have it covered and I should have no need to worry if my phone fails and needs to be replaced. They provide the service, it should work. Period. If they can't get it to work consistently then they should discontinue the service and stop advertising it.

[kcw]

The problem with the lawsuit is it's implication that Palm has a legal responsibility to always keep every users contacts, even though Palm never made any such promise.

I would bet that by accepting the contract you agree that the service is provided on an "as is" basis and you will not hold palm, et al responsible for any damages blah blah blah. Most service contracts have something like that in them so I'd be really surprised if this goes anywhere.

[christoph a. reynolds]

personally i hate when people run to lawyers at the drop of a hat , but quite frankly this is a time when it was needed . if you offer a backup program , then that's what the proggram shoul do . i don't know about any of you but if you run a business and lose contacts this can cause you to lose accounts ... money . so if you offer a "back up " then ..... back it up ! but here again we are all using a product that in my mind has a ton potential but just aint quite 80% yet . c'mon palm ... read these forums and get it together . i'm really starting to miss my old wm smart phone!:shake

[Crimson]

personally i hate when people run to lawyers at the drop of a hat , but quite frankly this is a time when it was needed . if you offer a backup program , then that's what the proggram shoul do . i don't know about any of you but if you run a business and lose contacts this can cause you to lose accounts ... money . so if you offer a "back up " then ..... back it up ! but here again we are all using a product that in my mind has a ton potential but just aint quite 80% yet . c'mon palm ... read these forums and get it together . i'm really starting to miss my old wm smart phone!:shake

See, I disagree.. this is NOT a time where lawyers are needed. Palm offers a backup solution - However I don't think they have said anywhere that they will guarantee you will never lose info. I doubt even online backup services like Mozy or Carbonite are 'legally' responsible if they lose your backups.

Palm also offers a calendar.. if it fails to notify you for a business appointment should you be able to sue them for that? What if their navigation app sends you to the wrong address? Sue for that?

What if the radio fails in the phone and you get into an accident.. can't dial 911.. should you sue Palm for that?

[vnmous1]

The problem with the lawsuit is it's implication that Palm has a legal responsibility to always keep every users contacts, even though Palm never made any such promise.

In fact, they go to great lengths to do just the opposite:


PALM DOES NOT GUARANTEE, REPRESENT, OR WARRANT THAT YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES, DEVICE OR SOFTWARE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE. PALM ASSUMES NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DELETION OR NON-DELETION OF DATA (FOR EXAMPLE, IN CONNECTION WITH A REMOTE WIPE SERVICE), LOSS OF DATA, MIS-TRANSFER OR FAILURE TO TRANSFER DATA, USER COMMUNICATIONS, OR PERSONALIZATION SETTINGS IN CONNECTION WITH THE SERVICES, DEVICE OR SOFTWARE. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THE SERVICES AND SOFTWARE ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" FOR YOUR USE WITHOUT WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS, EITHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY. WITHOUT LIMITING THE FOREGOING, PALM EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, SATISFACTORY QUALITY, QUIET ENJOYMENT OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. IF YOU ARE DEALING AS A CONSUMER IN THE EUROPEAN ECONOMIC AREA OR SWITZERLAND, THIS SECTION DOES NOT AFFECT YOUR STATUTORY RIGHTS.

Seems pretty clear to me. Palm/Sprint attorneys will place a copy of this on a judge's desk and it'll all be over.

bj

[zer0vette]

I just don't understand how people can go through life not protecting themselves.

As stated above, it's CLEAR that Palm is not in the business of data backup, data protection, or any other form of the guaranteeing of someones personal data from loss. I think everyone, including the people who believe that Palm should be people protectors, and should pay reparations for the loss of some contacts and personal data, know who's REALLY at fault.

Some people seem to just NEED to ALWAYS blame others for their problems, no matter what the situation. The type of person filing this lawsuit is also the type of person who gets in a car accident, and blames everyone else even though they clearly ran the red light.

[rfceo]

I am on Pre #2 when I swapped the phones the restore worked flawlessly. So it DID work.
After 1.3.1 phone started to act very quirky so I did a reset. It did not restore this time and I lost the info that I had input. Am I planning on suing over it? No, but it would be good to find out what went wrong. Was there a problem in the update? Was my data somehow corrupted? Are there some outside influences, adware trying to pull all contacts but instead corrupting the database? Hopefully Palm will find the answer. To bad that Palm will be spending there resources on fighting a lawsuit instead of getting to the root cause of the problem.

[GenericMusings]

...

As stated above, it's CLEAR that Palm is not in the business of data backup, data protection, or any other form of the guaranteeing of someones personal data from loss. I think everyone, including the people who believe that Palm should be people protectors, and should pay reparations for the loss of some contacts and personal data, know who's REALLY at fault.

....

And it is equally clear that Palm is using automatic data backup as a selling point in their literature. It is implied that one never has to worry about one's data because of Palm's backup service. They create an expectation with their marketing strategy that they may not capable of fulfilling, then weasel out of responsibility in the fine print.

Yes, the customer is ultimately responsible for their data. But if Palm offers a service, actively markets that service as a perk if you purchase their product, then fails to deliver on that promise when the service is required, are they also not partially liable for any loss incurred regardless of what their beloved fine print says?

[zer0vette]

I definitely agree the backup service should be fixed but I don't think they should be "liable for any loss". Fine print is fine print. If said fine print is not in any way breaking state or federal laws, then they can not be liable for anything.

If there's one thing a person should do in any type of an agreement, including a purchase of a product, is read the fine print.

[deafinoneear]

In fact, they go to great lengths to do just the opposite:


PALM DOES NOT GUARANTEE, REPRESENT, OR WARRANT THAT YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES, DEVICE OR SOFTWARE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE. PALM ASSUMES NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DELETION OR NON-DELETION OF DATA (FOR EXAMPLE, IN CONNECTION WITH A REMOTE WIPE SERVICE), LOSS OF DATA, MIS-TRANSFER OR FAILURE TO TRANSFER DATA, USER COMMUNICATIONS, OR PERSONALIZATION SETTINGS IN CONNECTION WITH THE SERVICES, DEVICE OR SOFTWARE. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THE SERVICES AND SOFTWARE ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" FOR YOUR USE WITHOUT WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS, EITHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY. WITHOUT LIMITING THE FOREGOING, PALM EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, SATISFACTORY QUALITY, QUIET ENJOYMENT OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. IF YOU ARE DEALING AS A CONSUMER IN THE EUROPEAN ECONOMIC AREA OR SWITZERLAND, THIS SECTION DOES NOT AFFECT YOUR STATUTORY RIGHTS.

Seems pretty clear to me. Palm/Sprint attorneys will place a copy of this on a judge's desk and it'll all be over.

bj

While it's clear as day that, due to this passage (good find BTW), they've got a good cover, the attorney can then take the angle of false advertising. Palm really does make a big issue that your data is secure in the cloud. Would it be valid to question either the contract stipulation or the advertising as being conflicting? I think so. Will it hold up in court? Can't say, but I think there's enough in question that the judge will allow a hearing to continue.

While I don't want to see Palm fail, and there's no way that damages following this case are likely to be all that painful to Palm given the small scope of the effected users, what this does is put front and center the necessity for Palm to provide a user-side backup solution to it's customers. I can't see much bad coming out of this. Perhaps it was more of a chess move on Jason Standiford's part (with help from a lawyer friend?) to get this issue pushed out into the public arena. A true backup solution uses multiple points of security so that if one fails, you're still good. Armies don't operate out of a single base in a theater, nor should data redundancy. I'm personally of the belief this will benefit us all.

[youngzayiles]

I believe palm should fix this asap because it is a feature on the phone. So that aspect of peoples arguement I understand.


Here is my issue, I have seen people complaining that they have lost 800 business contacts etc.. Come on, now could u possibly be that stupid to not have your 800 Money making business contacts backed up on outlook or something.. And we all know u can import and export contacts via google... If you choose to not back up your contacts I feel that is stupidity on your part... PERIOD!! I only have about 120 contacts and I back them up because I know Its always important to have a backup just in case, and I cant remember anyones number but my mom's lol... But if people read in which I hope they do, this happened to sidekick owners... So that should have been a major HINT to backup your important contacts elsewhere...

[GenericMusings]

... Fine print is fine print. If said fine print is not in any way breaking state or federal laws, then they can not be liable for anything. ...

I guess the lawsuit will determine if the fine print is, in fact, breaking any state or federal laws.

[deafinoneear]

I definitely agree the backup service should be fixed but I don't think they should be "liable for any loss". Fine print is fine print. If said fine print is not in any way breaking state or federal laws, then they can not be liable for anything.

If there's one thing a person should do in any type of an agreement, including a purchase of a product, is read the fine print.

You might want to take a refresher course on contracts and tort. Fine print is not just "fine print, rule of law." You can't sell "Great Tasting" soda on TV and then place empty cans in a package with a label that says "by opening this package you agree that SodaPop Inc. does not guarantee that there will be soda in these cans."

[netwrkr9]

I lost some of mine when I doctor'd last week. I don't know the extent of the loss, but I took my old Verizon Centro that I switched from back in August & had them re-transfer the contacts. THIS time, guess what option I had...to sync them to either my Google accounts or to my Palm Profile! I had it synced to my Google account and NOW, all my contact info is on the right profile!! NICE!!!

No lawsuit needed. If I lost contact info, I'll just ask the people what their phone # is again...easy!

I totally agree! This is why I keep my old cell too! I thought everyone kept their previous cell for just this reason. Plus, I also backed my phone up on my laptop with the webOSQI. Is this thread about lawsuits or backing your contacts up?

[zer0vette]

You might want to take a refresher course on contracts and tort. Fine print is not just "fine print, rule of law." You can't sell "Great Tasting" soda on TV and then place empty cans in a package with a label that says "by opening this package you agree that SodaPop Inc. does not guarantee that there will be soda in these cans."

i understand that customers aren't competely at the Mercy of Palm's terms, but the backup solution hasn't exactly been a crap shoot. I'd bet the vast majority of people with failures have been saved by it. I'd be interested to see some numbers.

[qst4]

I totally agree! This is why I keep my old cell too! I thought everyone kept their previous cell for just this reason. Plus, I also backed my phone up on my laptop with the webOSQI. Is this thread about lawsuits or backing your contacts up?

I'm glad you mentioned this, I use google, but I'm definitely going to look into the WebOSQI solution when I get home as a tertiary option.

[DougB541#CB]

Where i have contacts:

On my phone
On Google contacts
in an excel file on my computer
My external HDD that backs up my computer once a week.
And old phone i have laying aronud.


How often i worry about the palm profile = none.

Yes it sucks they came across this issue (and lets be real here, its not the same level of an issue as the Sidekick issue.) but I just find it comical that people don't take care in backing up their data on as many sources as possible.

Seriously, in college when my HDD on my computer failed...I didn't cry and sue seagate. I learned my lesson and made sure to keep an external drive hooked up to my computer...if one of them goes, i know i can always recover data. Peace of mind for the win.