[chang-three]

Why is everyone equating cloud to (Pre's implementation of) of wireless data sync? I mean, I know it makes a lot of sense (for Palm and Sprint) to tie these two together. But Isn't it possible for someone to build a WebOS based device that is connected to the Cloud via wired means, and use it as a sync/backup device.

For example, if (big IF here) there is a "SmartStone" that plugs into an USB port, updates/syncs your data through the host computer's internet connection, and charges/syncs the handset. This would also serve as a backup for people who want/need a local cache other than the handset.

Because it does not have to be (very) mobile, no battery is necessary and no more excuses for NOT having an SD slot. It does not need an UI so no need for a touch-screen (or any screen). All the software/firmware would be very close, if not identical to the one used in the handset so not much development cost there. I bet it won't cost more the sum of a Pre + a TouchStone.

Any taker?

[eekinsman]

One of these HAS to be true:
A.) I did not understand a word you just wrote, or
B.) You are nuts

Why is everyone equating cloud to (Pre's implementation of) of wireless data sync? I mean, I know it makes a lot of sense (for Palm and Sprint) to tie these two together. But Isn't it possible for someone to build a WebOS based device that is connected to the Cloud via wired means, and use it as a sync/backup device.

For example, if (big IF here) there is a "SmartStone" that plugs into an USB port, updates/syncs your data through the host computer's internet connection, and charges/syncs the handset. This would also serve as a backup for people who want/need a local cache other than the handset.

Because it does not have to be (very) mobile, no battery is necessary and no more excuses for NOT having an SD slot. It does not need an UI so no need for a touch-screen (or any screen). All the software/firmware would be very close, if not identical to the one used in the handset so not much development cost there. I bet it won't cost more the sum of a Pre + a TouchStone.

Any taker?

[tuz]

So I did actually read pretty much everything in this thread that didn't have to do with security...I am not paranoid or overprotective about anything but I do realize that enough people are concerned about security that I'm surprised it's not making a dent with Palm.

Aside, sort of: I had written a long message to the pre central people hoping they could give some answers (guess I should have came here first!) and then pasted my message into a note widget on my Dashboard. When I went to copy that, I hit paste instead and deleted it... womp womp.

So anyway, sorry for digressions. Someone before said something that I think really helped my state of mind, it was something like: stop thinking about how you're going to get there and start thinking about where you want to go TO.

I currently use a Treo and it holds pretty much my whole life, in 3 parts. My contacts, my calendar, and my memos (everything else is just an easier way to get to stuff, like the internet and maps etc). I sync all the info to my computer and I consider this very important.

I'm very excited about the Pre and don't really have a problem with the cloud system on its own. However, it would mean a lot of importing for me. Why? Obviously: because all my information is on my phone.
Why? Well the biggest one is the phone numbers. I don't mean to judge anyone and I'm not because I don't really have a problem with other people doing this, but it seems kind of useless and a waste of time to me to enter all my phone numbers into, say, Google (I <3 gmail) rather than my phone because, being phone numbers, they are most -- and really only -- useful on my PHONE!

Calendar and memos are important because I take them with me everywhere. My treo/palm desktop calendar are my primary (practically only) calendar.

Okay I will stop spouting things that are not really new information to you (although having to RELY on getting all your phone numbers from locations that can't actually CALL people seems pretty damn silly to me). Here are my thoughts.

I think all my concerns can be alleviated with happy answers to 2 questions:
1. Can I get all my information from my current treo/palm desktop onto my new Pre (something Sprint would probably do for me. How about that pd backup file?)
2. Where do these items then get backed up to? i.e., WHICH CLOUD?

In other words, if a contact or event gets entered into the Pre by some method other than Google or Facebook or Exchange or whatever, does it go to one of those clouds? A special Pre cloud?

Because I realized what my main concern is, the answer to "Where do you want to get TO?" and it's simply to manipulate this information on my computer. To look at my monthly calendar in a managable way (impossible on a phone screen) and enter data on my big convenient computer and not with my thumbs on my cute little phone. It seems that if I can find a simple way to get all my current information over to, say, Google, I could suck it up and get used to using google the same way I use Palm Desktop.

The other concern is to have it consolidated in one place on my computer. Because if I would switch to Google, but then I have an event in facebook (please tell me my "maybe" events won't show up on my phone -- aka REAL LIFE -- calendar), the only place to see all of them is to take the phone out of my pocket, right? Or am I mistaken, which I hope I am.

My phone is where everything important gets consolidated. I may have 10 events on my "facebook calendar" and told one of my freelance bosses, via his Google calendar, that I am free 10 hours this week, but only when I look at my Treo or Palm desktop do I see what is actually happening in my life. I sure hope I can do that on the pre!!!

Sorry for longwindedness but I'm hoping that you wise people will understand what I'm saying and tell me somethings that will make me feel better about getting a Pre, since I've been spending most of my internet time checking it out!

Thanks all.

[Derek Kessler]

1) There will be a one-way upload service (not a sync solution) that will take your PIM data out of Palm Desktop and Outlook, send it to Palm's servers, and out to your Pre.

2) Along the same lines as above, Palm is implementing a service called Palm Backup that will backup your Pre's on-device contacts, calendars, memos, tasks, and applications onto Palm's servers.

[tuz]

1) There will be a one-way upload service (not a sync solution) that will take your PIM data out of Palm Desktop and Outlook, send it to Palm's servers, and out to your Pre.

2) Along the same lines as above, Palm is implementing a service called Palm Backup that will backup your Pre's on-device contacts, calendars, memos, tasks, and applications onto Palm's servers.

Great info, especially on number one. Maybe I think of sync differently than others, but although I have had to reload my entire treo two or three times (over as many years), I don't really think of it as a "backup" (like emergency backup) so much as consolidation: synchronizing! So is this Palm Backup thing more of an emergency backup or is it basically an online version of Hotsyncing (I was going to say Palm Desktop but if you don't have the interface then it's not Palm Desktop!)

But actually it's not as easy as that. Even with Palm Backup, if I switch to using Google Calendar as my main computer calendar, will it consolidate to that and not just some abstract Palm backup?

[hparsons]

any thoughts as to which is "better" to use as your email provide? your ISP (ex Comcast) OR a "Cloud" provider such as Gmail or Yahoo?

my initial thoughts -

1. if you use your ISP for email, only one entity "touches" your data - your ISP. if you use Gmail, Yahoo etc. - two do.
2. if you use your ISP for email, your probability of downtime is X. is you use Gmail, Yahoo, etc. your probability of downtime goes up by Y because now you have added another component entity to fail in the mix.

of course, there are other trade offs like services, accessibility etc.

thoughts?

You lost me.

If you use your ISP, they touch your data.

If you use Gmail (or Yahoo), they touch it, and who else? You said two, who is the other one?

The same with the servers and "other component". Who is the "other" besides Gmail or Yahoo?

[hparsons]

...
IN OTHER WORDS, THE CLOUD IS STILL IN BETA. and go look at the big "BETA" listed above your Gmail, silly.

Sorry, that's simply not the case. You either don't understand beta testing, or are engaging in a little hyperbole.

Gmail may be beta, the cloud is not.

[Derek Kessler]

Great info, especially on number one. Maybe I think of sync differently than others, but although I have had to reload my entire treo two or three times (over as many years), I don't really think of it as a "backup" (like emergency backup) so much as consolidation: synchronizing! So is this Palm Backup thing more of an emergency backup or is it basically an online version of Hotsyncing (I was going to say Palm Desktop but if you don't have the interface then it's not Palm Desktop!)

But actually it's not as easy as that. Even with Palm Backup, if I switch to using Google Calendar as my main computer calendar, will it consolidate to that and not just some abstract Palm backup?

Palm Backup is just backup, not synchronization. It's for if your Pre is borked, broken, or replaced - you just turn on the fresh device, log in to your Palm account (that you will create during setup the first time), and it downloads all of your server-stored PIM information and contacts. It will continue to back up your data when you make changes, but it's still just backup.

Synchronization will happen with things like Google Contacts and Calendar - you can enter new data on your device or in the desktop browser version of Google Calendar, and it will synchronize back and forth. This information will not be backed up to Palm Backup (since it's being stored on the Google servers), but Palm Backup will store the necessary data to retrieve that information should things head south.

[tuz]

So if you want something to sync to your Google Calendar you have to create it as a google calendar event (or something like that) on the Pre? I'm assuming (read: hoping) that this is completely intuitive without taking an extra step, however small, in your brain.

[Gekko]

yeah this synergy thing sounds great but you have all these different systems and all these moving parts and i find it hard to believe that they will all so seamlessly and painlessly and easily all sync and talk and be accessed together so easily. i'm skeptical but we shall see.

[Derek Kessler]

So if you want something to sync to your Google Calendar you have to create it as a google calendar event (or something like that) on the Pre? I'm assuming (read: hoping) that this is completely intuitive without taking an extra step, however small, in your brain.

That's the plan. Just like on current Palm OS devices, you either select a calendar and create an event, or create an event and the select a calendar (at least I'm assuming that's how it works). Just now you have the option to select a Google calendar and have it be automagically shipped off to the cloud.

At least that's how it works in my head.

[DougB541]

According to them you can have multiple calenders....so you choose which one you are looking at and i'm sure it syncs.


For instance, i have Google Sync for my blackberry and if i create an event on my blackberry, when Googly Sync...syncs (i have it sync once a week for any new events) it adds it automatically to my google calender.

WIth facebook, if I accept an event it automatically then syncs on my blackberry calender which then syncs to my Google calender.

[tuz]

So if you make an unassociated event it doesn't sync anywhere? This seems pretty dumb, although the obvious answer is to just always put your events on syncing calendars.

[DougB541]

So if you make an unassociated event it doesn't sync anywhere? This seems pretty dumb, although the obvious answer is to just always put your events on syncing calendars.

I would think if you have your google calender synced, it will choose that as the default calender.

I also think it would be very easy to take an event and move it to another calender.


These are assumptions, but assumptions based on how current phones seem to work when you send an email. There is a default email but you can change what email you send from.