[dbpaddler]

So if Palm is creating a cloud service for Mojo updates and such on the developer side. Why not create a simple desktop PIM that can access our Pre through their cloud service? Would give them the turnkey solution so many of us are used to using without relying on a web based PIM or dealing with Outlook and a paid exchange server.

[pilot1000]

Depending on what you need, there may already be a link to the cloud. If you're using the Palm Desktop, maybe someone will make a conversion to sync it with the "cloud". Of course you'll need to determine what cloud service you want to use for your info ... Google, Facebook, whatever.

Having said all that. The assumption that you'll need anything special is premature. Palm may be supplying a conversion tool to migrate from Palm desktop to the cloud.

[dbpaddler]

You missed the point entirely. It was to not have to migrate away from the simplicity that was Palm Desktop. To not be forced into using on online PIM from any source (google, facebook or what not). There are many that use and appreciate the simplicity of PD and don't care for the internet based options that are out there and don't want to pay for an exchange server just to have a local PIM option in a program they'd rather not use.

If Palm is already offering their own gateway, then why not continue a desktop PIM that will make use of it?

[detective]

Palm has not revealed to end-users what their cloud product(s) will be. Since they no longer own Palm Desktop, there's not much they can legally do with it.

[dbpaddler]

I don't think you're correct. If Palm has licensed the source code from ACCESS then they can do with it as they wish. I would imagine PD and the OS go hand in hand. But I'm guessing there.

Your first sentence is the reason behind my post.

Palm has not revealed to end-users what their cloud product(s) will be. Since they no longer own Palm Desktop, there's not much they can legally do with it.

[detective]

Palm does not own Palm Desktop or Hotsync. The license they have does not permit modification to these applications. Access at one time offered to sell Palm Desktop to Palm at a rather exorbitant price. Palm did not buy it.

[dbpaddler]

ahhh...still no reason they can't offer a turnkey solution. still doesn't make any sense to me to completely abandon their own soup to nuts solution and force people to the cloud when they already have half the solution in place.

[SeanBlader]

Crogs, you're thinking about this all from a very 20th century standpoint. The point is that you don't need a computer to use the Pre, it IS the computer. It's not likely that anyone is going to purchase an exchange server at $699 for their own copy. It is likely that Palm will include a data backup solution so if that's what you're worried about then you'll just use your own Pre as your Pim, without a desktop connection and run a backup as often as you see fit.

[dbpaddler]

It's not 20th century thinking and Palm shouldn't force migration to the web either. I fully understand the reasoning and rationale, and as it has been pointed out in many posts and many threads, there are a plethora of reasons why people don't want to deal with a web based PIM and/or deal with Outlook and a paid exchange server be it security issues, distrust of the online PIMS, loss of internet service or whatever.

Entering things in mass on your computer is much easier than doing it on the Pre or any smartphone. Cutting and pasting from files you already have on your computer. Pulling from emails and other sources. All much easier on the computer. It's just easier to multitask and update your phone from your computer than trying to do it on the phone no matter how intuitive and synergistic it may be. And navigation of online PIMS is slower than a desktop version as well.

The option should still exist to have a desktop based PIM with some sort of free sync capability plain and simple. Of all the things for Palm to abandon that have been relied upon by loyal Palm users over the years, the simple and easy desktop PIM and sync is not one of them. So the fact that they offer cloud service and interaction with developers, there's no reason why they can't have a desktop solution that accesses their cloud and the Pre for end users.

[dsei]

Has it been clearly stated that Palm won't be creating a desktop sync app? This device isn't out yet and I'm sure there are still things that have yet to be announced. We heard the same complaint about its inability to run legacy Palm OS apps. Just as Palm knew that a large chunk of their customers needed to use legacy apps, they also know that some users will need the ability to sync locally. I highly doubt they will leave you high and dry. Even if they don't create an app on their own, there will be something available for you.

[dbpaddler]

Palm has been fairly clear about cloud syncing. You can read through discussions on facebook. I'm far from the only voicing their negative opinion on the subject. To date, all talk of syncing from Palm is about cloud syncing. And so far there's only a workaround with companionsync though it still involves google and requires an internet connection.

[dsei]

Palm has been fairly clear about cloud syncing. You can read through discussions on facebook. I'm far from the only voicing their negative opinion on the subject. To date, all talk of syncing from Palm is about cloud syncing. And so far there's only a workaround with companionsync though it still involves google and requires an internet connection.

You're most certainly right that you aren't the only one voicing your negative opinion. That reinforces my point that there is an existing Palm customer base that has a need to sync locally. The reason they are spending most of their time talking about cloud syncing is because that is their new feature and probably one of the biggest selling points for most people. It wouldn't make sense to introduce a new product and tout its capabilities to do something that other smartphones have been doing for years. It's like introducing a brand new hip car and saying it even has a CD player.

My point is that just because there has been no announcement of Palm Desktop for Pre yet, doesn't mean it will never happen. I doubt this was a high priority for Palm developers. Given the open nature of WebOS, I'd be inclined to say that creating a local sync app will not be that difficult, and is probably something Palm could roll out very quickly.

Regarding Companionlink, from their press release they stated their sync will work both through USB and over the air via Google:

CompanionLink users will be able to sync contacts, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, calendar events, tasks, notes, and alarms and reminders between the Palm Pre and popular contact management solutions like ACT! by Sage, Google, Palm Desktop, Lotus Notes, GoldMine, and Microsoft Outlook. Complete two-way synchronization ensures that any change to data on the Palm Pre will synchronize back with the contact management database. CompanionLink lets users choose between wired (USB) sync and wireless (over-the-air) sync with their phone.

[robertpetry]

Ok,

So I understand some people don't want to sync via Google. I don't really agree, but I understand.

So what about a hosted Exchange solution? You use outlook on the PC and your hosting provider syncs with the Pre. This gives you very quick, regular updates to both platforms.

Am I missing something (other than some fairly low costs for the service)?

[dbpaddler]

$120/yr is low cost? On top of the cost of the phone, monthly service and having to use software I don't care to have on my computer? I use Open Office. Don't want any more MS software on my computer than I need. And Outlook is big, bloated and overkill for doing the basics.

Many long time Palm owners (I go back to US Robotic days) use Palm Desktop. It's simple and does the basics...Contacts, Calender, Memos, and Tasks. Agendus on the phone takes care of all the higher PIM functionality. PD is simply data entry and backup. There's no need for Outlook.

I just don't see why Palm can't continue to offer a local solution and use it's own cloud service to sync to the Pre. They actually did have OTA backup once upon a time but it didn't sync locally. Part of the success of Palm was that it was a turnkey solution. Now with this Apple mentality, they stray further and further away from their roots.

Companion Link might be an option, but why should I have to pay for functionality that's been free for the past 13yrs?

[cardfan]

I agree. I'm not paying for Companion Link. I'm not paying for ANY option to do a simple local sync. If this is palm's solution, then they need to go back to the drawing board. It complicates things. It asks too much of the average customer. It doesn't keep things simple.

It won't fly..

I use Outlook as do many who rely on Office. I expect to be able to sync from Outlook to the Pre. It's not my job to figure this out. It's Palm's job. And figure it out they better (and figure out a way to local sync) if they want to sell this phone. This is what the majority of people are trained to do, are used to doing, and will keep doing. As well as provide a way to manage media on the Pre other than drag n drop.

Cloud syncing is nice and all, but only if the cloud is my PC, which when hooked up to the net, is part of the cloud. I was thinking sort along the lines of laplink or similar. All of my work is done on the PC and my Pre should help accommodate it and not try to be independent.

[Protagonist]

$120/yr is low cost? On top of the cost of the phone, monthly service and having to use software I don't care to have on my computer? I use Open Office. Don't want any more MS software on my computer than I need. And Outlook is big, bloated and overkill for doing the basics.

Many long time Palm owners (I go back to US Robotic days) use Palm Desktop. It's simple and does the basics...Contacts, Calender, Memos, and Tasks. Agendus on the phone takes care of all the higher PIM functionality. PD is simply data entry and backup. There's no need for Outlook.

I just don't see why Palm can't continue to offer a local solution and use it's own cloud service to sync to the Pre. They actually did have OTA backup once upon a time but it didn't sync locally. Part of the success of Palm was that it was a turnkey solution. Now with this Apple mentality, they stray further and further away from their roots.

Companion Link might be an option, but why should I have to pay for functionality that's been free for the past 13yrs?

I think one of the most challenging parts of product development must be dealing with 'greybeards' who just wont accept anything new, are terrified of change and dont see why they should have to pay for anything. I dont envy Palm that.

[dbpaddler]

Has nothing to do with fear of change. I've played around with yahoo and google. Don't care for it. Everything takes longer to do because it needs to load from the web. Connection goes down, lags, browser issues all affect usability where a local app doesn't have those problems. And again, Palm's strength was providing a simple turnkey solution. That was part of its strength for all those years.

I don't envy dealing with ignorant kool aid drinkers who fail to see both sides of the coin. Yet this is a public forum, so I deal. It's great you share a different opinion, but no need to be an ahole about it.

[bclinger]

It is not being terrified of change at all. It is being concerned that the change being made does not fit the situation or has not been thought out enough to fit a situation one may be in at a given moment or routinely.

As stated, connection goes down, in an area with little/no coverage - those are issues all users should be concerned with. There are locations I am in routinely that have NO cell service from ANY carrier - the device resets and what to do - gotta go outside to take care of the situation. That really is not practical in all instances. There should be more than one way to sync and the cloud as the only way is really a step backward.

[Protagonist]

Personally I hope Palm doesnt waste any of their time and effort dealing with the few edge cases that refuse to use anything but desktop syncing. They need to focus on getting this thing out the door, not trying to see both the huge and lucrative consumer side of the coin and the tiny and vocal edge case side of the coin.

If you want things to stay the way they have been for the last 13 years then by all means, dont upgrade. You obviously have found something that suits you. Expecting Palm to keep things the same, while also delivering a completely new and different device is a little much.

Mail2Web will give you exchange for $5 a month. I dont think it is a big deal to have one less beer a month and experience all the many benefits of wireless sync.

[cardfan]

In a nutshell, if Palm doesn't make it amazingly simple to sync, then it will suffer. Local sync should be as simple as plugging it in via USB and syncing Outlook. If it can't do that out of the box, then palm has problems. I can work around them, but the average buyer won't.

For others that want cloud syncing and pay monthly for it. Have fun with it. Don't want to stand in your way.

The key is being simple and having the device ready out of the box. This is what most users want.

As for not wanting to change, this is palm's last grasp for air. This isn't the time for them to start (force?) a revolution. They simply need to accommodate what the market is now. Keep the cloud and offer it, promote it, whatever, but pushing it as the only way is stupid.