[dave75]

the whole paradigm shift is all great and wonderful. It is still has limits especially on top of not having a memory card for backups. Those with the 'you don't like it, go pound sand' can go pound sand yourselves. there's a reason people haven't gone to BB, win mob, symbian, and android. there's a few basic concepts that keep people with Palm. Much of which is taking them to the next generation with Palm. So they'd like to stay with Palm. There's no reason this big shift in syncing has to alienate the very same people who have been loyal palm users for all these years. There's no reason to alienate people who are still more desktop based than cloud based. To say because I'd this big shift, the phone is not for you and to deal with it is just as narrowminded as any ridiculous statement from iphone fanboys and the like. Idiots speak in absolutes, not believing in middle ground. We are a representative sample of palm users. Many. in fact most don't post on forums. So if there is a rather large contingent here that thinks a desktop sync is necessary, then imagine how many users there are out there who think the same way. And I'm sure many of them aren't as tech savvy as people on here are. I know the people I work with aren't and the all use PD. Heck, one still has dial up.

The Pre is supposed to be intuitive. Well it's not intuitive when you're forcing everyone to abandon the way they're used to doing things, especially when it works well for them.

I actually posted on the palm blog, but I wasn't surprised to not see the post get approved. guess they felt it was too negative.

Do you really think posting on a message board is going to make Palm think, "Wow we really screwed up, let's add microSD and a desktop sync before launch". Seriously, don't you think these decisions were made a long time ago, like years ago? It's not going to happen. It's possible that a third party will add this, but Palm is not doing it. I don't think they want to touch any software that is not on the phone. This device is designed to create new revenue streams, and a desktop sync doesn't provide one.

[cgk]

I kind of think this whole thing is a little bit of a sham. Your telling me Palm spent years revolutionizing syncing with a cloud? How is this any different then syncing with an Exchange server or a service like mobileme?

I think palm would say that their offering is different in two ways

1) there is no desktop - it's cloud or nothing - I don't think any other device does that (right? G1?)

2) how the device blends (synergy) the disprate information sources together.


So it's the 1) depth and 2) level of control and transparent that it brings to the user.

If it actually works like that or if it turns out to be a terrible mash-up, someone steal some devices and we can find out.

[dave75]

I kind of think this whole thing is a little bit of a sham. Your telling me Palm spent years revolutionizing syncing with a cloud? How is this any different then syncing with an Exchange server or a service like mobileme?

Sliced bread was a big breakthough, yet bread wasn't new, and neither was slicing things. It's the way that they are doing it. And I don't think I said revolutionary.

[mobileman]

I think palm would say that their offering is different in two ways

1) there is no desktop - it's cloud or nothing - I don't think any other device does that (right? G1?)

2) how the device blends (synergy) the disprate information sources together.


So it's the 1) depth and 2) level of control and transparent that it brings to the user.

If it actually works like that or if it turns out to be a terrible mash-up, someone steal some devices and we can find out.

I know plenty of blackberry users that never install desktop manager. Again, the only thing the pre does knew is a unified messaging screen which I'm not so sure is that important

[cgk]

Sliced bread was a big breakthough, yet bread wasn't new, and neither was slicing things. It's the way that they are doing it. And I don't think I said revolutionary.

I think it's the point of use stuff that's going to be the most interesting. It's not going to be sold as a cloud device, nobody is going to mention desktop sync or even sync - the sales people are just going to say "so you put in your gmail and facebook and it just work, neat huh?" and that's it - that's the selling point - no fuss, no need for a computer.

It a device for people who don't think about those things - and really why should they?

[mobileman]

Sliced bread was a big breakthough, yet bread wasn't new, and neither was slicing things. It's the way that they are doing it. And I don't think I said revolutionary.

Agreed, you said a big breakthrough. I'm still trying to figure out what this breakthrough is.

[dave75]

I'm only speaking about what I think Palm's position is. They think they changed the game. Desktop syncing ended with Treos and Centros.

[mobileman]

I'm only speaking about what I think Palm's position is. They think they changed the game. Desktop syncing ended with Treos and Centros.

They might think they have, but in reality, plenty of people have been doing this for years. My company wont even allow Blackberry desktop manager to be installed, yet we have 1000s of BB users without any local sync.

[cgk]

But don't count the desktop element out yet. I called Palm, which responded that it's not commenting yet on the software end, but there might be more news closer to launch time.



Sounds to us like there might be some desktop or laptop client software involved, but is it HotSync, Palm Desktop, or some other application to work with Synergy? Our guess is the latter, but we can't be sure yet.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...html?tag=mncol

[dave75]

Really, they have all of their contacts from home, work, Facebook, their work calendar, personal calendar, everything all in one place, yet still separate. I don't think so. Palm has done something new here, we'll just have to wait and see how good it is, and how much people like/want it. The cloud is just the bread, combining everthing , yet keeping it separate sliced it. Who knows if people will even care, but I think the reason Palm did this is to make things easier for your average user to get a smartphone. It will update automatically, no need to even know what a desktop sync is, they can use the tools they already know how to use.

[west3man]

In the final analysis, I couldn't give a **** if palm provides hotsync or not, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to hold a position on what they are doing using the information we currently have.

You could be right and palm could be providing a desktop solution - but I just don't see how anyone comes to those conclusions from the information provided by palm or by *any* interview given by a palm staffer since CES. Could that change? yes it could, but I've seen nothing to support such a change, indeed every interview only seems to provide another link in the chain.

I just don't see how I am trying to invalidate your concerns if I take the position that palm aren't going to do anything. That's not me saying that I don't think those are logical and valid concerns for legacy users to care about, I'm saying that I just don't think Palm cares which implies nothing about the concerns of the legacy user community.

I always start from the position of "what is the commerical reason to do X", when I make a guess (and that's all they all), it's using that perspective as a starting point - and that leads me to the conclusion that legacy users are being left out in the cold in regards to their specific needs. I could be 100% wrong but there is no point me saying "I'm sure that palm will come up with something" because I simply don't believe that to be the case. I don't make any value judgement about if those concerns are valid/invalid whining/ non-whining - because I just don't care, it's of no interest to me.

It's not a guess when you say it definitively and repeatedly.

It is a judgement when you say that we just can't accept that the loyalty between us and Palm only goes in one direction.

And finally, it really doesn't fly when you claim how much you could give a ----, yet there you are, in thread after thread and post after post, typing away like the rest of us geeks.


But in the end, I don't say that you hold X position simply because you can't accept this or that. I don't make calls about your motivations because it's unnecessary and unhelpful. You can't truthfully say the same.

Now, I'm done with chatting about the chat, for now. Obviously, you can agree or disagree, but I don't want to derail the thread any further, at this time, so now that I've said what I have to say, I'm gonna try my damndest to shut up.

[cgk]

It's not a guess when you say it definitively and repeatedly.

That's to do with my natural arrogance more than anything else and also the fact that I think

you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth”

has an important message in it.

If I get this all wrong, I'll run across town naked holding a sign saying "palm loves you".

[mobileman]

Really, they have all of their contacts from home, work, Facebook, their work calendar, personal calendar, everything all in one place, yet still separate. I don't think so. Palm has done something new here, we'll just have to wait and see how good it is, and how much people like/want it. The cloud is just the bread, combining everthing , yet keeping it separate sliced it. Who knows if people will even care, but I think the reason Palm did this is to make things easier for your average user to get a smartphone. It will update automatically, no need to even know what a desktop sync is, they can use the tools they already know how to use.

Um, their blackberry retrieves their contacts, calendar, work email from the exchange server through BES access. If they have personal email the blackberry will also retrieve it and put everything into a unified inbox. I actually don't know anybody at work that uses facebook. Again, they never sync locally.

[west3man]

Better yet, I think I'll unsubscribe from some threads because I've contributed just about all I can, at this point, without succumbing to the patterns that show up so much in online conversations. Thanks for the chat.

[dave75]

Um, their blackberry retrieves their contacts, calendar, work email from the exchange server through BES access. If they have personal email the blackberry will also retrieve it and put everything into a unified inbox. I actually don't know anybody at work that uses facebook. Again, they never sync locally.

Never owned a Blackberry, so I will concede you are correct. How does the Blackberry get personal email, calendars, tasks?

[cgk]

http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/1174-1.htm

Is a modified version of this how palm desktop PIM information going to be uploaded?

Anyone ever try it?

[mobileman]

Never owned a Blackberry, so I will concede you are correct. How does the Blackberry get personal email, calendars, tasks?

BIS services retrieves it from your personal addresses and pushes it to your device

[cgk]

Quick primer - what is BIS? I'm familar with BES.

A quick google suggests it's Blackberry Internet services - how does it overlap with BES?

[dave75]

BIS services retrieves it from your personal addresses and pushes it to your device

This works for contacts, tasks, and calendars too?

[mobileman]

Quick primer - what is BIS? I'm familar with BES.

A quick google suggests it's Blackberry Internet services - how does it overlap with BES?

You can run both service at the same time. For example, I can get my work email from my exchange server through BES, and get my gmail through BIS. The Blackberry can put it all into a unified mailbox.