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05/23/2021, 02:17 PM
#2
(edit of IRC discussion, 23rd May 2021)
<Preemptive> 5.1. Use of Freenode IRC for discussion
<codepoet80> Sure! Motion to move the user's group to Discord/SimpleChat :-)
<nomad84> I agree with codepoet80. It works so much better on both new and retro devices.
<Preemptive> Just to kick off, Topic for #webos is: Unofficial webOS dev discussion | Please direct Enyo discussion to #EnyoJS | Touchpad discussion goes to #touchpad | Source of truth: http://developer.palm.com | Forget the content of a conversation? Archives are here: Index of /livelogs/webos/ * Topic for #webos set by Adora (Thu Jan 26 00:17:54 2012)
<OneLastTry> I had to get help to try to get on here with step by step instructions which took some tries. Otherwise I would not be present right now.
<Preemptive> Historically, this has been the home for discussion and moving should be considered carefully as it could be the equivalent of broken links on the web
<codepoet80> Understood, but of the historical participants, how many are left?
<Herrie> Just us in general
<Preemptive> Moreover, LuneOS discussion also takes place here and we should probably consult with that project on there views, plans and intentions as the current discussion taking place here is essentially a maintenance effort until LuneOS is a viable daily driver. Palm and legacy webOS are not coming back in the old forms
<Herrie> We have backup on the new chat stuff that was founded by the ex Freenode people
<Herrie> libra it's called I think
<Herrie> We're keeping an eye on the developments for now
<Herrie> Wrt freenode
<Herrie> Might be good to "claim" #webos on libra
<Preemptive> Herrie: OK, if that's a viable project, then it's an option. I suppose we should lay out reasons to depart Freenode first. The most obvious being if the service folds.
<codepoet80> I have been monitoring this channel regular for two months. There is no activity on a daily basis.
<Herrie> I can ask the guy who claimed #webos-ports and #webos-ports-dev to do that
<Preemptive> herrie: Good point. Are you able to do that?
<Herrie> Preemptive: I can ask the guy who did it for the other channels
<nomad84> my client is always online here for a few years, the majority of the discussions are the meetups
<Preemptive> Herrie: Thanks.
<Preemptive> I did not get the impression that Freenode was about to fold and the owner's statement seemed to indicate that this was a misunderstanding or over-reaction. Obviously, the Register article gave me a bit more reason to pause, but what is the threat considered to be here?
<Preemptive> For a bit of clarity, I'm thinking we discuss: A) Why leave? B) Where to go? and C) how to back up / take the logs with us and leave a forwarding address
<codepoet80> I think this is less about freenode and more about using a system where there are actually users
<Preemptive> codepoet80: Do you mean total users or webOS-interested users? Because the latter is pretty few now
<codepoet80> Active participating users in our discussion
<Preemptive> This channel was mainly used by 'techy' webOS types and may be an old 'bookmark' people might return to to find we are still going...
<nomad84> the SimpleChat group is all about webOS
<codepoet80> Instead of making a decision now, why don't we try the new system for a month or two,
<Preemptive> But we could leave a forwarding address...
<codepoet80> We can have someone monitoring the old channel, so we don't miss anyone, and send folks over to simple chat for a few meetings. Then decide which we like better for our community
<Preemptive> codepoet80: I think that if we have a back up of the logs and "So long and thanks for all the Freenode. We are now found at [channel]" would be sufficient...as the last entry that is...
<codepoet80> Agree
<nomad84> I can setup a bot for redirection in case if we don't want to change our beloved topic
<codepoet80> Heart emoji
<nomad84> Topic set by Adora on 26 January 2012, 01:17:54
<nomad84> it's going to be 10 years old soon 
<Preemptive> So my question is, why leave? I've only just skimmed the material. I know there are technical issues with logs from time to time, but I assume that wasn't the freenode service itself. Is it a technical question or an access issue or some (small p) political objection to the owner?
<codepoet80> I think it's a user experience question. This old system is not easy to use for new users, the proposed approach is much more likely to attract participation
<nomad84> simplechat has a more vibrant webOS community
<OneLastTry> To be open, I have wanted to join this for months just to participate and no so much contribute as I don't know much. I tried going off of the Mazzinia post from page 7 with those instructions and never was able to get it to make sense to me at all. Plus I think it could shy away other non-tech but WebOS loving users.
<Preemptive> OneLastTry: I have to reference that as I reinstalled a few months back and keep forgetting to tell Hexchat to remember my pw. As I'm registered, I put in the line: [/]msg NickServ identify [yourpasswordhere]
<Preemptive> then the join webOS command.
<Preemptive> OneLastTry: What client do you use?
<codepoet80> That extra prompt helped me today! But simple chat actually has a GUI for logging in...
<OneLastTry> XChat Azure from the Mac App Store. I tried going off the https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration step by step and it never made sense to me, as I was like where do
<OneLastTry> I go / do all this lol.
<Preemptive> OK. So at the moment, it seems the reasons to leave are a) uncertainty about the future of Freenode & b) better interface elsewhere.
<OneLastTry> (Shoutout to CodePoet) for the link to that and his step by step. http://wosa.link/t.php?am9ud2lzZXxvMzQ0OWNkOA
<codepoet80> Happy to help, probably fair to point out that you got that help on simple chat :-)
<OneLastTry> Also, just to throw in I tried to register my ILovePeaches username and never got the email to finalize the username to my yahoo email, so then made this OneLastTry to a gmail account and it worked, I even checked my spelling 4x over, spam folder, etc and it never came
<Preemptive> And we have two suggested possibilities for where to go which are: Libera.Chat (freenode fork?) and SimpleChat.
<OneLastTry> Yep, did get the help in simple chat! Which I got working on my Veer, Pre 3, TouchPad and now Mac.
<Preemptive> I think backing up the logs should be fairly easy with something like wget
<Herrie> Well the logs are hosted by ka6sox not by Freenode
<Herrie> ka6sox is admin of webos internals and ports infrastructure
<Herrie> So those are safe and secure in general
<Preemptive> Herrie: Right - hence the logging problems not being a freenode issue I think. So they can be assume to be safe, but they all have URLs and are just text, so anyone wanting to make a 2nd backup can do so.
<Preemptive> *assumed
<Herrie> Yes not a freenode issue
<Herrie> Issue with logger tool on our infra
<Preemptive> At the moment, I'm thinking we move this to a thread on WN and discuss the various aspects there for a bit, then come back here to narrow down the choices and make some decisions.
<Preemptive> One other point is 'fragmentation'
<Preemptive> I think that a future of webOS that resembles the past is only to be found in LuneOS at this time
<Preemptive> So close ties with webOS ports is important
<codepoet80> Again I think my main point is to go where there are active users. We have discussion on simple chat if not daily at least weekly. If we point users there we don't have to worry about fragmentation.
<codepoet80> But I am okay to move this discussion to the forums and move to other topics, for the sake of everyone's time
<Preemptive> OK, so I'll set up a thread with the three questions upthread if that's OK with everybody.
<Preemptive> What title for this thread? The future of Freenode webOS discussion?
<bughi1980> sounds fine
<Preemptive> Maybe "Debate the future of Freenode webOS discussion" ?
<Preemptive>27th June 2021. 1700GMT See you next month and on the forums!
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