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  1.    #121  
    Proposed agenda for Meeting No. 14 of The webOS User Group, on August 19th 2018 at 1600 GMT / UTC. IRC: #webOS channel on Freenode.

    SEE THE INSTRUCTIONS BELOW FOR REGISTERING YOUR IRC NICKNAME
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I've made a few changes. Feel free to post if you think of anything that can be added. Inactive projects may be temporarily removed.

    Last edited by Preemptive; 08/18/2018 at 01:40 PM.
  2.    #122  
    It seems to be error reporting day today. Not urgent, but I can't connect to IRC - or at least the ones I use: #webOS and #webOS-Ports. I see there was a load of spam, so something was done to stop it. From the error messages, I think the system knows my user 'nick'name, but I have no way to prove I'm that nick and a new nick is not recognised. I do not think I have a password for IRC. The client says I've set mode +Ri (???) and I've seen comments in the log about setting +R

    Do I type something? Do I need a password? How would I set one?

    Thanks for any advice. I'll see if there's any usable documentation, but I think I've struggled in the past, so my use of the client is usually just typing words and pressing enter!
    Last edited by Preemptive; 08/05/2018 at 11:35 AM.
  3. #123  
    look for classiccmp on freenode, since it requires a registered nick to join. The instructions are there.

    Basically
    1) you register your id on freenode, it requires to put a password of your choice, too.
    https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration

    2) then you connect using
    /msg NickServ identify [yourpasswordhere]
    /join #webos
    Last edited by mazzinia; 08/06/2018 at 09:34 AM.
    Preemptive and Misj' like this.
  4.    #124  
    Thanks! That worked. I guess we may have to link to the instructions to ensure people can easily connect. I'll see if my client can store the password to save my typing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mazzinia View Post
    Basically
    1) you register your id on freenode, it requires to put a password of your choice, too.
    https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration

    2) then you connect using
    /msg NickServ identify [yourpasswordhere]
    /join #webos
  5. #125  
    Hexchat can do it easily
  6.    #126  
    FYI: I've seen a message that important planned maintenance will occur on webOS websites from the 20th to the 27th.
    This means the Ports / Internals wikis as far as I know
  7. #127  
    I won't be at the meetup tomorrow as something came up (I also forgot it would be an hour earlier than usual). I did register my freenode nick etc. in preparation though.

    A little update: not much to say. My computer broke down last month, and I lost one of my hard-drives (the one containing the OS). Most of my webOS stuff was safe, but not all (specifically my local MOJO setup; my ENYO setup was on another harddrive as most of my work is in the lastter). I did manage to get my computer running again, but had to reinstall a lot of stuff, and I didn't feel doing any actual computer-stuff after that in my free time. So in short: no updates, but I haven't forgotten my beloved webOS or you guys. And I will go through the logs.


    EDIT --
    ps. On a sidenote: I've always wondered...wouldn't it be possible to make the emulated mojo-app-view on the touchpad a little better. e.g. by using CSS to double the size of the app. I know the emulated view is part of the mojo-framework provided on the Touchpad (or at least there are references to 'emulated-launch' in there). But I never really looked into it.
    Last edited by Misj'; 08/18/2018 at 10:39 AM.
  8.    #128  
    REMINDER: The meeting is tomorrow. Note the instructions about registering your nickname above in order to connect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Misj' View Post
    On a sidenote: I've always wondered...wouldn't it be possible to make the emulated mojo-app-view on the touchpad a little better. e.g. by using CSS to double the size of the app. I know the emulated view is part of the mojo-framework provided on the Touchpad (or at least there are references to 'emulated-launch' in there). But I never really looked into it.
    I've added it to the discussion agenda. Maybe someone will have an idea.
  9. #129  
    I'm en route to Hungary, in case I am not settled at destination, I'll say there has been no Meta-Doctor work on my end in the last many months. Hope to see the group on IRC or I'll be reviewing the logs when I get online...

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    I've added it to the discussion agenda. Maybe someone will have an idea.
    Thanks.

    One of the things I was thinking is: we might be able to use css-transforms. In this case you'd want to use scale3d (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/...nction/scale3d). Now, the touchpad/webOS doesn't really scale in the third dimension. But the reason to use it anyway is, because the 3D transforms will use the GPU (https://girliemac.com/blog/2011/07/2...-used-in-enyo/). Also, using CSS might mean a solution could - theoretically - be as easy as adding or removing a CSS-class when pressing a button (so you could turn it off and on). Furthermore, since most user-events in mojo apps are linked not to a position on-screen but to a specific element being clicked, the scaling should not affect interactivity.

    As I said, I never really looked into it (and there are other things to take into account like the keyboard button, or the back-swipe that I don't know yet how they would be affected) but this was my thought-experiment so far.

    It's mostly that I never really use the mojo apps on my touchpad, and it's because the emulated view is kinda... well... not a very good experience. I know it was probably just meant as a temporary solution until more apps would be converted to enyo, or until more dedicated tablet-apps would come to exist (similar to Apple's emulation-view on the first iPad). But - as we all know - we're still waiting for the TouchPad2.
    Last edited by Misj'; 08/18/2018 at 03:31 PM.
  11. #131  
    I'm away for a long weekend with spotty internet at best, so won't be able to join.

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    HP Veer (daily driver), HP Pre 3, HP Touchpad Proper 4G/LTE (Sierra MC7710), HP Touchpad 32GB WiFi, Palm Pre 2
  12.    #132  
    **PLEASE NOTE: NOTHING HERE SHOULD BE TAKEN AS A PROMISE AND NO TIME LINES WILL BE MADE PUBLIC. ANY PROGRESS WILL BE HELPED IF MORE PEOPLE OFFER ASSISTANCE.**

    Summary of Meeting No. 14 of The webOS User Group, on August 19th 2018 at 1600 GMT / UTC. IRC: #webOS channel on Freenode.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    • 1. Attendees & Introductions of new attendees.
      There were 7 attendees.
    • 2. Any proposed updates to the aims or rules of the group.
      None.
    • 3. Possible selection of officers or area contacts.
      No proposals.
    • 4. Progress reports.
      • 4.1. Qupzilla. (nizovn)
        Updates are yet to be released, but rotation support is being worked on. Improvements will mainly occur through 'polishing' the Qt library. Newer, upstream versions of Qupzilla are called Falkon. When persistent history storage is implemented, Qupzilla will be updated to this version.
      • 4.2. Qt browser. (nizovn)
        Updates are yet to be released, but fonts in hardware mode are fixed, context menus in qtwebbrowser are fixed and rotation support is in progress.

        Though these new browsers offer modern functionality compared to the aging stock browsers, it was suggested that a webkit upgrade could be installed on webOS that would enable the existing browsers (and perhaps the whole system) to support modern web standards. LuneOS uses a development called webengine with the Qt framework. If possible, using this option may provide some useful convergence. These possibilities will be discussed at the next meeting.
      • 4.3. webOS Qt5 SDK. (nizovn)
        It is planned to upgrade Qt to 5.9.6.
      • 4.4. Updated meta-doctors. (Herrie, bbito)
        No progress.
      • 4.5. Updated location service. (Misj, mazzinia)
        No Update.
      • 4.6. Fix the webos internals patch feed or manage it manually. (novaldex, Herrie) > Progress Report
        No Report. Server maintenance work will be carried out in the next week. Though unlikely to affect this issue, perhaps it will make it easier to deploy any future fixes.
      • 4.7. Preservation / Restoration of sources of documentation* (including original Palm documents, Open WebOS, git.webos-internals.org & 3rd party sources such as webOS101). (All members in the sub-sections)
        • 4.7.1. Documentation policy.
          There were no updates, but some discussion.
        • 4.7.2. Find / improve documentation of mojo / enyo. (Misj)
          Some back ups will be made to mitigate the possibility of data loss. An offer of help on this was made.
        • 4.7.3. On device Help System.
          No updates.
      • 4.8. webOS App Museum / Indexing the FTP app source. (Misj' / JVLebbink1)
        No updates. This item may be removed as it is assumed that the project is essentially 'complete'.
      • 4.9 App Store Specification. (also: webOS Nation App gallery issues). (Preemptive + others)
        A thread was made. Contributions are awaited.
    • 5. Discussion of other items.
      • 5.1. Device back up options.
        No updates.
      • 5.2. webOS Vulnerabilities and Fixes.
        There are no new vulnerability reports or fixes.
      • 5.3. LG's webOS Open Source Edition
        Though it does not appear that LG plan to deploy OSE on mobile phones and tablets, the system continues to be developed with a view to other varied applications. It has been suggested that LuneOS adopts relevant parts of the code and it's reasonable to assume that work done by LG's salaried employees will help to accelerate development. This may not be an easy process, but some work has begun.
      • 5.4. Is it possible to enlarge mojo apps on the Touchpad?
        It appears that it is possible to create or even adapt existing mojo apps to fit the larger screen of the Touchpad, but the nature of the individual apps may increase the complexity required (see the post below).
    • 6. Any other business.
      None.
    • 7. Date of next meeting.
      23rd September, 1600 GMT.


    The full log of the fourteenth meeting is here: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos/webos.20180820.txt: SUN August 19th.

    A LIST OF USER GROUP PROJECTS
    Last edited by Preemptive; 08/20/2018 at 06:48 AM.
  13.    #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by Misj' View Post
    It's mostly that I never really use the mojo apps on my touchpad, and it's because the emulated view is kinda... well... not a very good experience. I know it was probably just meant as a temporary solution until more apps would be converted to enyo, or until more dedicated tablet-apps would come to exist (similar to Apple's emulation-view on the first iPad). But - as we all know - we're still waiting for the TouchPad2.
    Mentioned in the meeting: UiRevision - a change to the appinfo.json
    https://forums.webosnation.com/webos...reen-size.html

    However, it was confirmed that 'HD' apps are possible with mojo as Preware is an example. Whether it is a simple trick or specific code is unclear. It may also be that graphical assets won't scale (or will need to be substituted). Standard system icons & controls have been scaled up for LuneOS, but custom items may need to be redone. Graphically rich apps like games probably won't work.

    A 'how-to' from Geoff Gauchet: https://www.webosnation.com/develope...#comment-60426
    Of course! The emulator supplies a gesture area. Full-screen requires the provision of a back button...

    https://forums.webosnation.com/webos...ng-advice.html
    https://forums.webosnation.com/touch...d-patches.html

    So it could be a simple fix or it could get complicated to the point that it's not worth the effort - depending on the app.
    Last edited by Preemptive; 08/20/2018 at 06:45 AM.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    Mentioned in the meeting: UiRevision - a change to the appinfo.json
    ...
    ...
    So it could be a simple fix or it could get complicated to the point that it's not worth the effort - depending on the app.
    One of the downsides, however, of this fix is, that it changes the screen real-estate for the app. What I mean by that is, that you're basically telling a 320x480 app that it's 1024x768. Unless the original programmer specifically took that into consideration, chances are your app isn't going to work (or be rendered) as intended (Enyo did that 'consideration' partly for you, but Mojo did not (as far as I know)). That was the entire reason why the touchpad has the emulated-view. This is also why I would prefer a solution that sticks to the original screen-size (as the emulated-view does), but increase it's size 1.5 or 2x (480x720 and 640x960 respectively). The easiest way, I think, to scale the app is by using CSS-tranforms as that is exactly what the scale3d does. You could even use a button to toggle between scales (1x, 1.5x, 2x). The 'only' downside is, that assets that are scaled are slightly blurred due to webOS's image-scale algorithm (bilinear scaling). Also, it would be a generic solution rather than an app-specific (appinfo.json) solution.
  15.    #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by Misj' View Post
    One of the downsides, however, of this fix is, that it changes the screen real-estate for the app. What I mean by that is, that you're basically telling a 320x480 app that it's 1024x768. Unless the original programmer specifically took that into consideration, chances are your app isn't going to work (or be rendered) as intended (Enyo did that 'consideration' partly for you, but Mojo did not (as far as I know)). That was the entire reason why the touchpad has the emulated-view. This is also why I would prefer a solution that sticks to the original screen-size (as the emulated-view does), but increase it's size 1.5 or 2x (480x720 and 640x960 respectively). The easiest way, I think, to scale the app is by using CSS-tranforms as that is exactly what the scale3d does. You could even use a button to toggle between scales (1x, 1.5x, 2x). The 'only' downside is, that assets that are scaled are slightly blurred due to webOS's image-scale algorithm (bilinear scaling). Also, it would be a generic solution rather than an app-specific (appinfo.json) solution.
    OK. Well, i'm not a coder, but...
    UiRevision=2 is clearly not a 2x modifier, though I guess it could be a step-change indicator for a list of resolutions (i.e "2"=1024x768). I did wonder what UiRevision=1.5 would do... or rather, what are the possible values and what do they do? I'm guessing that mojo apps adapted to various phone screen sizes, but there was the Pre3, "viewport" mod which was needed...

    Later in the article, Zephree has code to detect the TP and add back buttons. Perhaps this can be modified so that the emulator is still launched, but the app is scaled in size?

    Or finally, I suppose you could indeed patch the emulator with a scaling button and use CSS as you say, but I'm already commenting way beyond my expertise! Presumably, the emulator itself would need to scale?
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    UiRevision=2 is clearly not a 2x modifier, though I guess it could be a step-change indicator for a list of resolutions (i.e "2"=1024x768). I did wonder what UiRevision=1.5 would do... or rather, what are the possible values and what do they do? I'm guessing that mojo apps adapted to various phone screen sizes, but there was the Pre3, "viewport" mod which was needed...
    Well, the docs describe it as:
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.banneret.nl/webos/documentation/all/reference/config/appinfo.json.html
    Property: uiRevision
    Required: No
    Type: string
    Description: If set to "2", apps can make full use of the TouchPad screen; otherwise, the app is given a 320x480 window in which to display.
    I think it was originally intended as a quick-and-dirty way to distinguish between mojo (which steered the first version of the ui) and enyo (which steered the 2nd). However, 'all that it really does' determine whether the app should run in full-screen or in the emulation-view (which doesn't emulate a phone, just reduces the screen real-estate that is provided to the app). To be honest, I am not entirely sure whether the emulated-view is part of mojo or not, as I never tested what happens when you have an app that uses neither frameworks, or set the uirevision to 1 for an enyo app.

    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    Later in the article, Zephree has code to detect the TP and add back buttons. Perhaps this can be modified so that the emulator is still launched, but the app is scaled in size?
    Personally I would nowadays check for PalmSystem and use PalmSystem.deviceInfo (https://github.com/openwebos/webappm...DeviceInfo.cpp) and check the modelNameAscii. Or even whether platformVersionMajor equals "3" (since unlike the time when the article was written, we don't really expect future phones with an updated webOS version). But both ways work, and it's kinda trivial which you use...personal preference.


    ps. Anyway, I will have to think about this (or someone else has, if (s)he has the time). And this is hardly the right thread to do that
  17.    #137  
    I saw this article and I think it's probably worth some discussion:
    Why Verizon just stopped activating 3G phones without any warning - Techrepublic

    I know 2G is on it's way out and the end of 3G may take a while and depend on where in the world you are. I am assuming that H+ (the fast 3G that's not really 4G) will also go. At that point, our phones will no longer function as phones and that will almost certainly be the death blow. Yes, wifi connectivity will remain and use of tablets probably won't be affected - there are also 4G Touchpads.

    There's an outside chance of 'Frankenpre'-style modem swaps, but I have no idea if this is at all possible and it's likely that only a small number of people will try it if it is.

    As the webOS user group exists to essentially manage the decline of legacy devices, we should consider responses to the 3G switch off. I'll add this to the agenda.
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