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  1. #181  
    ok,

    I would like to mention something, so that "we" have the time to think about it a bit.
    With the current turmoil caused by the Trump decision to ban huawei, huawei is currently actively looking at something that they were leisurely developing in house to substitute android.
    It's a very daring move but... what if we contact them to propose LuneOS as a possible alternative ? 99% they will say no, but there's still a very small % of hope, and that would be an huge installed base ( and a big influx of their developers to push the roadmap ).
    Stupid idea ? worth to take an approach ? Worth to have a meeting for just this ?
  2. #182  
    Quote Originally Posted by mazzinia View Post
    ok,

    I would like to mention something, so that "we" have the time to think about it a bit.
    With the current turmoil caused by the Trump decision to ban huawei, huawei is currently actively looking at something that they were leisurely developing in house to substitute android.
    It's a very daring move but... what if we contact them to propose LuneOS as a possible alternative ? 99% they will say no, but there's still a very small % of hope, and that would be an huge installed base ( and a big influx of their developers to push the roadmap ).
    Stupid idea ? worth to take an approach ? Worth to have a meeting for just this ?
    Seeing that US is putting pressure on South Korea to join the ban (after Japan more or less banned Huawei with Softbank (owning ARM revoking Huawei's license) and Panasonic and Toshiba stopping cooperation/supply). I don't think that Huawei would want to put it's eggs in LG's basket seeing that a large part of LuneOS is based on Open webOS and webOS OSE fundamentals.

    I would cheer for a couple of 100M devices running LuneOS or something similar of course

    To add: Huawei's Open Source record is abysmal and their compliance with GPL is extremely poor as well.
    Last edited by Herrie; 05/23/2019 at 11:30 AM.
    HP Veer (daily driver), HP Pre 3, HP Touchpad Proper 4G/LTE (Sierra MC7710), HP Touchpad 32GB WiFi, Palm Pre 2
    HelloNNNewman likes this.
  3. #183  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    It seems I'm likely to be free on the 26th - if there are any developments to discuss.

    If nothing is posted here that will make a meeting worthwhile, then I suggest 23rd June.
    June is probably good. I should be free this weekend -- it is a 3 day weekend. I won't be available next weekend, however.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  4.    #184  
    OK, well I'll switch on IRC and see if anyone shows up.
    Grabber5.0 likes this.
  5.    #185  
    Nothing much to report. We had a brief chat about Huawei:
    <Preemptive> From what I've read, Huawei's "Plan B" is most likely to be Android Open Source Project (ASOP). To some extent, this is already what they do in China and their business there is big. The problem with this or any other replacement OS is of course, the app ecosystem. This seems reasonable: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/1...e-us-editorial
    Possibly the nature of webOS / LuneOs would help by making web apps fairly easy, but, then they'd need need to sell webOS to all the western consumers who are used to Google Android and all the services.

    <bughi1980> well yes about they would need to sell webos to the customers, but that would be their own problem :P

    <Preemptive> One option might be to builde the eco-system out of China, but they would be starting from scratch. As I understand it, they already largely do without Google services in China. There's a lot of argument about whether Huawei is actually a security risk or if this is posturing ahead of a trade deal. Either China / Huawei will be cut off and will have to come up with something else, or the whole issue will go away and be 'back to normal' in a few months

    <bughi1980> well, the issue is since months and is money based. trump is pushing around to have american companies to sell network infrastructures instead of huawei. so yes, he can claim that huawei is a security liability. but at the same time it could be claimed that the american counterpart/s are the same

    <Preemptive> Yes, although Huawei does seem to have tight links to the government, (arguably true of any Chinese company), ultimately, any government could control a company on their territory if they really wanted to.

    <bughi1980> yup. so, there are various layers to this. one being this, another being making sure an american company gets the contracts to bring more work/money inside
    Herrie reported on upgrades to the webOS Ports servers:
    <Herrie> Hi. Sorry all day busy here. Did I miss something important? The logger seems to have some issues, so cannot check. Hopefully that will soon be history since some shiny new drives arrived and will be installed shortly THere will be a new 12 disk 8TB array available for LuneOS, webOS OSE and some other projects
    Currently, the next meeting day is likely to be the 23rd of June, but feel free to suggest other dates.
    xandros9 likes this.
  6.    #186  
    Proposed agenda for Meeting No. 24 of The webOS User Group, on June 23rd 2019 at 1700 GMT / UTC. IRC: #webOS channel on Freenode. Instructions to register user (nick) name.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  7. #187  
    So I don't believe that I'll be able to attend. However, I am planning to do a lot of work on SSL today. Hopefully I can get something on Monday! Will report back here.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre3 using Forums
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  8. #188  
    I had a prior engagement. But is will - as always - read the log-files.

    (also, I look forward to dkirker's update)
  9.    #189  
    **PLEASE NOTE: NOTHING HERE SHOULD BE TAKEN AS A PROMISE AND NO TIME LINES WILL BE MADE PUBLIC. ANY PROGRESS WILL BE HELPED IF MORE PEOPLE OFFER ASSISTANCE.**

    Summary of Meeting No. 24 of The webOS User Group, on June 23rd 2019 at 1700 GMT / UTC. IRC: #webOS channel on Freenode.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    • 1. Attendees & Introductions of new attendees.
      There were 5 attendees.
    • 2. Any proposed updates to the aims or rules of the group.
      None.
    • 3. Possible selection of officers or area contacts.
      No proposals.
    • 4. Progress reports.
      • 4.1. Priority Project: Upgrading TLS to at least 1.2. (dkirker)
        See above for dkirker's update.
      • 4.2. Updated meta-doctors. (Herrie, bbito)
        Herrie hopes to find some time to support bbito with makefiles.
      • 4.3. Updated location service. (Misj, mazzinia)
        The situation was summarised. It was noted that the Gmaps website could be accessed via the Qt browser as a workaround. The possibility of spoofing a website request to the service was suggested. The other option is of course the use of another service.
      • 4.4. Fix the webos internals patch feed or manage it manually. (novaldex, Herrie)
        A lot of infra work done & still being done, but the last test was on Ubuntu version 16.04. The version is now 18.04. It should be possible to manually merge patches and generate an updated feed. It was agreed to make a list of patches from the forum that could be added to the feed.
      • 4.5. Preservation / Restoration of sources of documentation (including original Palm documents, Open WebOS, git.webos-internals.org & 3rd party sources such as webOS101). (All members in the sub-sections)
        No updates. It was remarked that the resources at Bannernet (4.5.2) had been useful to reveal changes from Open webOs to OSE, helping the process of porting OSE into LuneOS.
      • 4.6. App Store Specification. (Preemptive + others)
        It has previously been suggested that the User Group (and possibly webOS Ports) ask to join the rebble.io group and use their platform to deliver apps. A further suggestion is that as Halium is a common base for a number of Linux-based mobile OS projects, a common app store would be more viable than individual efforts. Whether this would be a common delivery system or split into different 'OS-shops' (while allowing cross-platform apps) would be for the builders to decide.
      • 4.7. webOS Nation App Gallery Submission And Access. (Preemptive)
        No progress. This will combined with 4.6.
    • 5. Discussion of other items.
    • 6. Priority Project Selection.
      No change.
    • 7. Any other business.
      None.
    • 8. Date of next meeting.
      21st July 2019 1700 GMT.
    [/LIST]
    The full log of the twenty second meeting is here: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos/webos.20190624.txt: SUN June 23rd.

    Note to self: 5.4 is now a project. Maybe combine 4.6 & 4.7

    A LIST OF USER GROUP PROJECTS
    Last edited by Preemptive; 07/07/2019 at 01:30 PM.
  10.    #190  
    Proposed agenda for Meeting No. 25 of The webOS User Group, on July 21st 2019 at 1700 GMT / UTC. IRC: #webOS channel on Freenode. Instructions to register user (nick) name.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Preemptive; 07/18/2019 at 01:58 PM.
  11.    #191  
    **PLEASE NOTE: NOTHING HERE SHOULD BE TAKEN AS A PROMISE AND NO TIME LINES WILL BE MADE PUBLIC. ANY PROGRESS WILL BE HELPED IF MORE PEOPLE OFFER ASSISTANCE.**

    Summary of Meeting No. 25 of The webOS User Group, on July 21st 2019 at 1700 GMT / UTC. IRC: #webOS channel on Freenode.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    • 1. Attendees & Introductions of new attendees.
      There were 6 attendees.
    • 2. Any proposed updates to the aims or rules of the group.
      None.
    • 3. Possible selection of officers or area contacts.
      No proposals.
    • 4. Progress reports.
      • 4.1. Priority Project: Upgrading TLS to at least 1.2. (dkirker)
        No Report.
      • 4.2. Updated meta-doctors. (Herrie, bbito)
        Though some work has been done, finding time has been hard. It's unlikely that any progress will be made before September.
      • 4.3. Updated location service. (Misj, mazzinia)
        After some discussion, the situation appears* to be this:
        It is assumed that most apps will request location data from the webOS Location Service (wLS), though it is possible an app could send an API request directly to Google. The advantage of the webOS service is of course that it can acquire data from the GPS receiver, using Google for a 'quick & dirty' fix by wifi location while satellite data is still being sought or if the receiver is inside a building.

        The service is a binary blob. This means that it is difficult to patch (likely decompiling the code would be required, though it's possible that available source code exists somewhere if it was OSS at any point). This means that the idea of spoofing the API request as if it was from a google maps page is probably a non-starter as it will be in the form of an HTML request.

        There was discussion of existing code for Qt5 mapping apps, but the fundamental problem is with the wLS and is two-fold: The API code is out of date (i.e. broken) and Google now has a more restrictive license that would impose large charges on whoever had the specific developer API key if there were a large number of requests. Likely requests from webOS users is very difficult to estimate, so a risk.

        Therefore the current proposed strategy is:
        1. Rename the original service.
        2. Replace the original service with a new one that queries the renamed original service for GPS data and makes it's own request for wifi location - from a service that replaces the Google one (GLS).
        3. The current suggested service is Mozilla Location Service (MLS), which is still free, though developer keys are no longer being issued (Unfortunately, MLS is not considered to be as accurate as Google). A further suggestion is to use a plugin system so that various service options can be user-selected.
        4. Example code can be published so that if an app is making a direct request, interested parties can patch the app, but it is assumed that fixing the service will automatically fix the majority of apps (as long as the returned data is correctly formatted).

        * correct me if I'm wrong!
      • 4.4. Fix the webos internals patch feed or manage it manually. (novaldex, Herrie)
        The servers have now been updated to Ubuntu 18.04. The feeds were oringinally built on a much earlier version and not yet updated to the current one. The output from a test run of the patch portal feed build can be found here: webos-preware-feeds #43 Console [Jenkins] WN forum members have been asked to post patches to a list, so than can be manually added to the feeds.
      • 4.5. Preservation / Restoration of sources of documentation (including original Palm documents, Open WebOS, git.webos-internals.org & 3rd party sources such as webOS101). (All members in the sub-sections)
        Documentation of the Luna system manager from here is being backed up (with a search function). This will be on http://www.banneret.nl/webos/documentation/
      • 4.6. App Store Specification. (Preemptive + others)
        The idea of a joint catalogue, shared with other mobile OS projects still requires follow up.
      • 4.7 LuneOS testing protocol.
        Updates to the webOS Ports protocol were added to the thread. There have been no user suggestions for other tests.
    • 5. Discussion of other items.
      • 5.1. Device back up options.
        No updates.
      • 5.2. webOS Vulnerabilities and Fixes.
        No updates.
      • 5.3. LG's webOS Open Source Edition
        No updates.
      • 5.4. http rendering proxy
        This could be a useful work-around for devices that do not have the new Qt5 browsers available (Pre2 & earlier). It allows the use of the stock browser, giving the advantage of that app's integration with the OS (just type, launching from other apps) though it may lack the quality of a proper browser solution. A way would need to be found to create automatic requests to the proxy for a smooth experience. It was noted that the proxy would have access to all of a users browser history, so it would be advisable to run your own instance locally.
    • 6. Priority Project Selection.
      No change.
    • 7. Any other business.
      Nizovn announced a new project: A squid proxy as a possible SSL work around. To be discussed next month.
    • 8. Date of next meeting.
      18th August 2019 1700 GMT.

    The full log of the twenty fifth meeting is here: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos/webos.20190721.txt: SUN July 21st.

    A LIST OF USER GROUP PROJECTS
    Last edited by Preemptive; 08/08/2019 at 04:35 PM.
  12.    #192  
    Proposed agenda for Meeting No. 26 of The webOS User Group, on August 18th 2019 at 1700 GMT / UTC. IRC: #webOS channel on Freenode. Instructions to register user (nick) name.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Preemptive; 07/21/2019 at 02:19 PM.
  13.    #193  
    **PLEASE NOTE: NOTHING HERE SHOULD BE TAKEN AS A PROMISE AND NO TIME LINES WILL BE MADE PUBLIC. ANY PROGRESS WILL BE HELPED IF MORE PEOPLE OFFER ASSISTANCE.**

    Summary of Meeting No. 26 of The webOS User Group, on August 18th 2019 at 1700 GMT / UTC. IRC: #webOS channel on Freenode.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The full log of the twenty sixth meeting is here: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos/webos.20190819.txt: SUN August 18th.

    A LIST OF USER GROUP PROJECTS
    Last edited by Preemptive; 08/20/2019 at 09:02 AM.
  14.    #194  
    Proposed agenda for Meeting No. 27 of The webOS User Group, on September 8th 2019 at 1700 GMT / UTC. IRC: #webOS channel on Freenode. Instructions to register user (nick) name.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Preemptive; 09/08/2019 at 10:06 AM.
  15.    #195  
    I notice that we are actually near the second anniversary of starting these meetings. Perhaps the next one should be some kind of review. (EDIT: I added item 5.5)

    I went through the thread and made an index which I added to the first post. Each entry links to a meeting summary in this thread (which includes a link to the log) or to the IRC log.

    Perhaps we could go back and pick up any loose ends... or something. If anyone has any thoughts of any thing we could do different for the next meeting, post here.
    Last edited by Preemptive; 09/08/2019 at 10:07 AM.
  16.    #196  
    **PLEASE NOTE: NOTHING HERE SHOULD BE TAKEN AS A PROMISE AND NO TIME LINES WILL BE MADE PUBLIC. ANY PROGRESS WILL BE HELPED IF MORE PEOPLE OFFER ASSISTANCE.**

    Summary of Meeting No. 27 of The webOS User Group, on September 8th 2019 at 1700 GMT / UTC. IRC: #webOS channel on Freenode.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    • 1. Attendees & Introductions of new attendees.
      There were 4 attendees.
    • 2. Any proposed updates to the aims or rules of the group.
      None.
    • 3. Possible selection of officers or area contacts.
      No proposals.
    • 4. Progress reports.
      • 4.1 TLS Fixes & Work-arounds
      • 4.2. Updated meta-doctors. (Herrie, bbito)
        No updates.
      • 4.3. Updated location service. (Misj, mazzinia)
        No updates.
      • 4.4. Fix the webos internals patch feed or manage it manually. (novaldex, Herrie)
        Forum members are invited to list patches released after the 20th of December 2013 to this thread: Patch Portal Updates: post patch information here.
      • 4.5. Preservation / Restoration of sources of documentation (including original Palm documents, Open WebOS, git.webos-internals.org & 3rd party sources such as webOS101). (All members in the sub-sections)
        • 4.5.1. Documentation policy.
          These summaries are now indexed in the first post.
        • 4.5.2. Find / improve documentation of mojo / enyo. (Misj)
          No report.
        • 4.5.3. On device Help System.
          There was discussion of how the data is delivered to device; Whether links are hard-coded and sought by the app or if content was delivered by a server-side script. If the former, then material rehosted elsewhere in the same manner can be accessed likely by a simple redirect in the HOSTS file. This will be tested. Alternatively, the links could be searched and replaced with a new base URL.
        • 4.5.4. Old domains associated with webOS. (Preemptive)
          No updates.
      • 4.6. App Store Specification. (Preemptive + others)
        No updates.
      • 4.7 LuneOS testing protocol. (Preemptive / others)
        No updates.
      • 4.8 Qt Clipboard Plugin. (pcworld, nizovn)
        pcworld merged some patches to the plugin which will enable Qt5 apps to interact with the webOS clipboard. There was discussion of how best to map the (cut, copy, paste) commands as webOS uses the app menu to access edit commands, the keyboard with gesture area as (CTRL) modifier or a long-press context menu on the tablet. Nizovn will continue development.
    • 5. Discussion of other items.
      • 5.1. Device back up options.
        Some apps for managing back up data will be tested. There is still no app or process to automate the creation of the backup, so manual techniques will have to suffice for now.
      • 5.2. webOS Vulnerabilities and Fixes.
        No updates.
      • 5.3. LG's webOS Open Source Edition
        It was suggested that webOS is a core part of LG's smart home and connected devices. As OSE parts are integrated into LuneOS, this may mean there is a ready made eco-system that could be accessed.
      • 5.4. http rendering proxy
        No updates. This may have some use for older devices that are not being updated.
      • 5.5. Two year review. General review of progress and possible future strategy.
        Marking two years of meetings, there was brief discussion of future strategy.
    • 6. Priority Project Selection.
      No change.
    • 7. Any other business.
      None.
    • 8. Date of next meeting.
      13th of October 1700GMT.

    The full log of the twenty seventh meeting is here: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos/webos.20190909.txt: SUN September 8th.

    A LIST OF USER GROUP PROJECTS
    Last edited by Preemptive; 09/08/2019 at 06:54 PM.
  17. #197  
    For "FIND / IMPROVE DOCUMENTATION OF MOJO / ENYO" check out: www.webosarchive.com
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