[mattmers]

Joshua Topolsky gave webOS a pat on the back in the most recent Vergecast (059.)

at 1:30:30

<== exact moment url

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nf55QkN1pA[/YT]

[laingman]

Cool, and thanks to Josh for telling it like it is. I tell people I'm not buying anything that doesn't run webos and they just don't get it.

What did palm years ago was simply outstanding

[RumoredNow]

LMAO

"I'm not saying that.. like, hey, let's go back and use webOS as an interface..."

Whenever they give something they almost immediately take it back.

Meanwhile they spent a lot of time talking about how you need to load up your iPhone 5 with a bunch of Google to make it function as a daily driver.

So, yeah, keep forging ahead with other platforms that aren't perfect and let us all not go backwards to something that just works right in your hands without always taking the loooooong way around. Let's have corporate lockstep devices that are locked down, hard to individualize, frustrating to multi-task on. Devices that allow Apps to just run and run in the background when you're done using them so they can suck battery and clog up your system resources... Add in a lot of Apps that spy on you and open you up to exploitation as well...

Future... Here we come...

[laingman]

The one guy was acting as if he never saw webos running any faster than the original pre at 600

[mattmers]

The one guy was acting as if he never saw webos running any faster than the original pre at 600

I wish I had quite a bit of extra money cuz then I would just send them a pre3. I wonder what they would do with it. I wonder if Josh would try it for a week?

[laingman]

I wish I had quite a bit of extra money cuz then I would just send them a pre3. I wonder what they would do with it. I wonder if Josh would try it for a week?

They are well aware that webos not as slow as the original pre, at least one of them has used (or at least played with) almost every phone ever released. In fact Josh just tweeted about using his pre3 https://twitter.com/joshuatopolsky/s...18010152562688 only a few weeks back and I recall him talking about serious speed when he had the pre2 and that all webos needed was some power behind it.

But webos did get a reputation of being slow and that's hard to shake. You could see that the one guy was thinking of the the original pre (the one that took 8 seconds to launch calculator) and josh pointing out that it can be made to go fast if it had the powerful processors of today.

But those guys are super nerds and they wont put up with the some things like the barely functional maps, no threaded email, and just app selection in general

[mattmers]

The one guy was acting as if he never saw webos running any faster than the original pre at 600

They are well aware that webos not as slow as the original pre, at least one of them has used (or at least played with) almost every phone ever released. In fact Josh just tweeted about using his pre3 https://twitter.com/joshuatopolsky/s...18010152562688 only a few weeks back and I recall him talking about serious speed when he had the pre2 and that all webos needed was some power behind it.

But webos did get a reputation of being slow and that's hard to shake. You could see that the one guy was thinking of the the original pre (the one that took 8 seconds to launch calculator) and josh pointing out that it can be made to go fast if it had the powerful processors of today.

But those guys are super nerds and they wont put up with the some things like the barely functional maps, no threaded email, and just app selection in general

Yea, I'm not a twitter person so I did not catch that, thanks. Its their job to keep up on tech so I understand them moving on. I think Josh has a romantic side toward tech though, seeing it more then just wires but as history and human progress. In the video you see the old computer behind him. He may not be like that, just a guess, but I am. I have an old Packard Bell mouse (families first computer) on my shelf and a Blackberry 5810 as well.

[dignitary]

But webos did get a reputation of being slow and that's hard to shake. You could see that the one guy was thinking of the the original pre (the one that took 8 seconds to launch calculator) and josh pointing out that it can be made to go fast if it had the powerful processors of today.

And that reputation killed off webOS as a true competitor in mobile. Perhaps permanently. Evidenced by the Palm/HP expose on the birth through (close enough to) death of webOS on The Verge, many people within Palm and HP involved in creating the OS even felt largely the same way--that they just couldn't get it up to the speed webOS would demand in order to match the performance of Android and iOS.

And while they worked to fix some of that in 2.x with the switch from Java to Node, they couldn't do it fast enough, nor keep developers interested because of the buggy/deficient APIs, continued performance issues, and sheer lack of API documentation. Not to mention a dwindling user base even in mid-2010. The Touchpad and Veer, in retrospect, were just a defibrillator acting to add a few months to the inevitable due to the lack of leadership and vision at the top.

And once developers aren't interested, you no longer get the apps that attract people.

And once you can't get the apps that attract people, you're stuck with people who are so attached to the idea of the OS rather than the execution that they just don't care what happens, so long as the OS stays alive.

And...here's the present day: The OS is still on life support, 99% of the developers have left, no current top-tier applications are on the platform (nor are they coming), and all that's left are the people in love with the idea of the OS rather than the actual execution to the level most influential smartphone users now expect of their devices.

And only three things count in the mobile world: Apps, hardware, and OS execution. Miss either one of those, and you're toast. People never came here to evaluate their smartphone choices; they went to places like Engadget, Verge, Gizmodo, BGR, etc. where webOS was just another OS, and one that couldn't keep up so they couldn't recommend it...so it died off because webOS missed (and continues to miss) on all counts in the eyes of pretty much everyone outside of this forum...and the few remaining webOS users that (for some reason) don't come here.

Josh had it right, honestly. Don't let "webOS-colored glasses" keep you from understanding the context of the praise. Good ideas very often come from failed products. By any rational marketplace evaluation, webOS is a massively failed retail product and platform from top to bottom whether you agree or not.

It's just reality, and in a 2013 world of iPhone 5s and quad-core, 2GB RAM, NFC-carrying superphones and tablets with 1080p displays, webOS just has nothing out there to even get the bat of some random person's eye until hardware comes out for the platform with full developer support and full support of the cutting edge in the market.

Anything less and you're just ****ing into the wind, my friend.

Look at the crawling adoption rate of WP7/8 and the complete "meh" response to BB10, and then consider what chance an OS with zero retail presence has when 3rd and 4th places can't even get a foothold with billions of dollars being spent on OEM support, developer giveaways, conferences, developer relations, celebrity endorsements, and constant barrages of advertising.

Now tell me a single initiative webOS has going for it that can even come close to matching the parameters for marketplace success without sounding like you exist in some alternate reality while at the same time having zero relevant industry sector business experience.

[laingman]

Agree with dignitary's opinions. But I can see where Josh is coming from. Like I have said many times, when I use the newest phones out there I have no problem giving it back to them and getting back to my pre2. its just feels better software and hardware. I am just lucky that I don't need all of that stuff that are must have nowadays, so for now pre2 good enough for me.

Another Thing, I always say that the iphone5 is a new phone running ancient software and Josh said as much. I often tell my girl friend that Iphone os sucks and how can she put up with that thing, and she has no idea where I am coming from. How could I prefer that little thing over the mighty iphone?

Just too bad that I dont know coding (or have to time to learn) so I can try to fix some apps and contribute to the community

[RumoredNow]

And that reputation killed off webOS as a true competitor in mobile. Perhaps permanently. Evidenced by the Palm/HP expose on the birth through (close enough to) death of webOS on The Verge, many people within Palm and HP involved in creating the OS even felt largely the same way--that they just couldn't get it up to the speed webOS would demand in order to match the performance of Android and iOS.

And while they worked to fix some of that in 2.x with the switch from Java to Node, they couldn't do it fast enough, nor keep developers interested because of the buggy/deficient APIs, continued performance issues, and sheer lack of API documentation. Not to mention a dwindling user base even in mid-2010. The Touchpad and Veer, in retrospect, were just a defibrillator acting to add a few months to the inevitable due to the lack of leadership and vision at the top.

And once developers aren't interested, you no longer get the apps that attract people.

And once you can't get the apps that attract people, you're stuck with people who are so attached to the idea of the OS rather than the execution that they just don't care what happens, so long as the OS stays alive.

And...here's the present day: The OS is still on life support, 99% of the developers have left, no current top-tier applications are on the platform (nor are they coming), and all that's left are the people in love with the idea of the OS rather than the actual execution to the level most influential smartphone users now expect of their devices.

And only three things count in the mobile world: Apps, hardware, and OS execution. Miss either one of those, and you're toast. People never came here to evaluate their smartphone choices; they went to places like Engadget, Verge, Gizmodo, BGR, etc. where webOS was just another OS, and one that couldn't keep up so they couldn't recommend it...so it died off because webOS missed (and continues to miss) on all counts in the eyes of pretty much everyone outside of this forum...and the few remaining webOS users that (for some reason) don't come here.

Josh had it right, honestly. Don't let "webOS-colored glasses" keep you from understanding the context of the praise. Good ideas very often come from failed products. By any rational marketplace evaluation, webOS is a massively failed retail product and platform from top to bottom whether you agree or not.

It's just reality, and in a 2013 world of iPhone 5s and quad-core, 2GB RAM, NFC-carrying superphones and tablets with 1080p displays, webOS just has nothing out there to even get the bat of some random person's eye until hardware comes out for the platform with full developer support and full support of the cutting edge in the market.

Anything less and you're just ****ing into the wind, my friend.

Look at the crawling adoption rate of WP7/8 and the complete "meh" response to BB10, and then consider what chance an OS with zero retail presence has when 3rd and 4th places can't even get a foothold with billions of dollars being spent on OEM support, developer giveaways, conferences, developer relations, celebrity endorsements, and constant barrages of advertising.

Now tell me a single initiative webOS has going for it that can even come close to matching the parameters for marketplace success without sounding like you exist in some alternate reality while at the same time having zero relevant industry sector business experience.

Pretty much what you said boils down to...

Throw money at it.

I agree and that just shows up the basic problem of the consumer mentality. Buy what is on TV, what Johnny Rockstar has, what all your friends are using...

And that's what made Joshua Topolsky back down off his wistful reminiscence about something that felt "so natural" to use.

But he has a good point too. No matter what adoptions have been made, no one has equaled what Palm wrought. That huge piles of filthy lucre are the only model of success is something I opt out of. Too bad for the "real" world. I ain't following that

[laingman]

Any body remember the first version of webos where apps would take forever to launch and there was no way to tell if it was doing something or not. Oh the good old days

[laingman]

By the way, while we on the subject of speed an performance, if there is anyone who has not installed faster cards animation you should do it now.

Hyper version is available in preware for 2.1.0, don't know if it has been updated to work with newer versions.