[Hobbz]

I'm sure this has been said before, but I can't hold back my alter-ego (Captain Obvious) any longer. This can apply to the phones and the TouchPad. Yes, it's more of an op-ed piece and it's not a short post. The intent isn't to rant/vent but to help get across the message to HP/Palm.

Unless HP has some major surprises up their sleeve, there doesn't appear to be much to distinguish the hardware from other devices already on the market by the time the phones and TP are released. Other companies seem to be moving with much greater speed to deliver good quality products.

It hit me this weekend that I feel like the lonely little kid standing outside looking through the big window at all the cool people having a great time with their apps. It's almost a daily occurrence now where I see apps for iOS and Android which would be great to have but there's nothing about (or plans to do anything about) WebOS. Not to mention friends who ask if I can get a game/app to connect with them on their Droid/iOS phone.

Companies advertise free apps to access services through phones other than WebOS. That's not including the developers who make apps excluding WebOS due to a light customer base. Don't even get me going on the few which do release on WebOS but charge a higher rate than the other platforms.

There are aspects of the Pre hardware and the WebOS I'd like to have for my next phone (and tablet) purchase. But those characteristics seem to be minor when I realize just how much WebOS is overlooked by the developer community as a whole.

I can't help but feel disillusioned about the apparent lack of results in this area. Sure, there's much talk about "things to come" and plenty of promises. HP seems to be drawing attention to a couple of major gems they want to deliver like Time Warner. Unfortunately, that doesn't make up for the sheer number of useful apps which are not available to us. I can't use an app for American Airlines, my credit card, Hilton Hotels for business, Caesar's Palace for vacation... and the list goes on.

I don't care that I can read a Time magazine from a tablet when I need to find a 'real' computer to submit my credit card payment due while out on a business trip. This is functionality which can easily be performed by an app on other types of phones. It's the everyday type of app which helps from a productivity standpoint that I need. Along with apps/games that connect me with my friends.


I've been a huge supporter of Palm devices since the 90's. My tablet and phone purchase cannot be influenced by brand loyalty any longer. My two year-old Pre is on its deathbed and I need to assess the market in a matter of weeks and decide what to buy.

HP -- I don't want to change to another platform. Give me reasons to stay because there's an overwhelming number of reasons to consider Android.

[Ulairi]

And?

The current webOS devices do not compare to the apps that Android or iOS have. If all you care about is apps then you should go with those platforms. I don't understand you writing such a long post to say "I want a ton of apps" when webOS doesn't have a ton of apps now and if it gets a ton of apps, it's going to take time. If you want a good group of core apps and you want things like Shazam, Kindle, etc etc then you might be happy with webOS.

[bbeck#WN]

+1
I totally agree. I left my Pre on it's death bed a few months ago and went through a sad time without it but time heals all wounds and I'm really enjoying the endless number of apps with my Android Epic. "This too shall pass." Really, the pain does end and then you'll be rolling around in tons of apps and wonder why you waited so long!! Good luck. ;-)

[VaccPalm]

I have to agree 100%. I got rid of my Pre and got android phone because of Apps. EVery person who I know and is getting a new phone always asks me ( I am a phone guy and work in the mobile business) whats the best phones for Apps.

Apps are key.

[Ulairi]

I have to agree 100%. I got rid of my Pre and got android phone because of Apps. EVery person who I know and is getting a new phone always asks me ( I am a phone guy and work in the mobile business) whats the best phones for Apps.

Apps are key.

Can you please explain to me why then you're even on a webOS forum? If all you want is Apps and Apps are the biggest things for phones and webOS is starting a mile behind when it comes to app support? That means there is nothing HP or Palm can do to win your business. If you just want access to a ton of apps you need an Android or iOS device. If you want a phone with a better operating experience and a good group of core apps that are expanding then webOS can compete for your business. What is your purpose of posting on this forum then?

[bluenote]

"I don't care that I can read a Time magazine from a tablet when I need to find a 'real' computer to submit my credit card payment due while out on a business trip. This is functionality which can easily be performed by an app on other types of phones."

You can do this on the Pre. Try using the dial pad. On the back of every credit card there is a phone number to call. They love taking payments over the phone, they've been doing it for years.

[Mikey47]

...It hit me this weekend that I feel like the lonely little kid standing outside looking through the big window at all the cool people having a great time with their apps...

Just remember, that like in high school, the cool kids were chosen by other cool kids not because they were actually cool. At your five year reunion it turns out that many of the non-cool kids were much more successful than those cool kids.

So, sometimes it not cool to be cool.

[FenrirWolf]

well, you should buy the products that fulfill your needs. If android does it better for you, more power to ya

[kjb86]

It hit me this weekend that I feel like the lonely little kid standing outside looking through the big window at all the cool people having a great time with their apps. It's almost a daily occurrence now where I see apps for iOS and Android which would be great to have but there's nothing about (or plans to do anything about) WebOS. Not to mention friends who ask if I can get a game/app to connect with them on their Droid/iOS phone.

OP,
This is not directed towards you.
This is directed towards the general "sheep" population.

This, right here, is the problem. It's like apps are a fashion statement now, along with having the piece of fruit on your electronic device.

It's also brutal how insecure people seem to be that someone else's phone has something better, and how "you don't fit into the crowd"

As for myself, I could care less about apps. I think they're pointless. They don't serve a purpose in my lie since whatever an app can do, I can do that a few other ways anyways.

[katefields]

It hit me this weekend that I feel like the lonely little kid standing outside looking through the big window at all the cool people having a great time with their apps.

Oh man, please don't feel so bad about it. :,( (I hate the lonely kid analogy; it always makes me feel bad.) As a tech lover, I know where you're coming from. I also was thinking along the same lines this weekend and for Mother's Day I went to Best Buy to play with the tablets and get my geek fix. I have to say I was less than thrilled, but if my phone were falling apart I'd be hopping on the Android train, too.

Just like with the Pre, when webOS 3.0 finally comes out, it's probably goin to be half-baked. Why put yourself through the letdown?

Try another platform, enjoy it, and then come back when things really start rolling with webOS. Life is really too short.

[ariker01]

And?

The current webOS devices do not compare to the apps that Android or iOS have. If all you care about is apps then you should go with those platforms. I don't understand you writing such a long post to say "I want a ton of apps" when webOS doesn't have a ton of apps now and if it gets a ton of apps, it's going to take time. If you want a good group of core apps and you want things like Shazam, Kindle, etc etc then you might be happy with webOS.

I agree! What makes webOS different than Android or iOS is that it's a very full featured OS. Android and iOS are pretty bare bones, relying on apps to fill in the gaps. This is how Android and iOS make their money. I do agree webOS is lacking in the app department, but the out of the box OS with OTA updates is what keeps me hanging around.

With additional advertising, and better hardware coming, I believe webOS will still be quite competitive even with the lack of apps. I also think that porting apps will become more relevant within the next few years with cross platform development tools. This wills even the scale, but as usual only time will tell.

[kjb86]

Sure. Why go through the trouble of scheduling a credit card payment via your bank's app when you can just call the credit card company and authorize them to just suck the money out of your account?

you make a valid point
even easier

[Garrett92C]

Try another platform, enjoy it, and then come back when things really start rolling with webOS. Life is really too short.

Yes! This is the way to do it. If someone isn't satisfied with webOS, they should take a break for a little while and explore the other options (Android, WP7, iOS). There is no reason to stick around and be miserable... Besides, you can always come back when HP eventually gets things moving.

That's what I did. A few months ago, I got myself a HTC HD2 and have been having a lot of fun using Android and WP7. I get to cheer on webOS while not having to deal with the frustrations of being a full-time webOS user. lol. I'll buy another webOS phone eventually... Just need to wait for HP to get things up to speed.

(Oh, and as it turns out, apps DO matter. I never thought they did until I started using Android.)

[bbeck#WN]

Can you please explain to me why then you're even on a webOS forum? If all you want is Apps and Apps are the biggest things for phones and webOS is starting a mile behind when it comes to app support? That means there is nothing HP or Palm can do to win your business. If you just want access to a ton of apps you need an Android or iOS device. If you want a phone with a better operating experience and a good group of core apps that are expanding then webOS can compete for your business. What is your purpose of posting on this forum then?

For me its kind of like seeing what an old girlfriend is up to. I was truly head over heels about webOS and backed it up at work and debated with coworkers and friends and family! I still love the OS and would love to go back but have to admit the apps are a big thrill over in Android land. I don't think we (previous Pre owners) have any ill intention here but we're just sharing our opinions. I really do feel bad for this whole experience that Palm/HP has dragged us all through. I'm watching and listening to all the BIG news coming out of the Google I/O thing today and can't help thinking how this is how I wanted Feb 9th to feel like. and instead it was too much about (as usual) "what's coming". ..and still we (you) wait. ya, it's just sad. and don't even get me started on how I feel when I watch a Playbook comercial!!!!!!!!! But I still have my fingers crossed that HP has some magic plan and they actually can revive this great OS!!

[Hobbz]

OP,
This is not directed towards you.
This is directed towards the general "sheep" population.

This, right here, is the problem. It's like apps are a fashion statement now, along with having the piece of fruit on your electronic device.

It's also brutal how insecure people seem to be that someone else's phone has something better, and how "you don't fit into the crowd"

As for myself, I could care less about apps. I think they're pointless. They don't serve a purpose in my lie since whatever an app can do, I can do that a few other ways anyways.

Nah, you're absolutely right in regards about fads. That was just my colorful way to convey the thought with some humor. I see how that analogy can come across as insecurity. It's more of a frustration resulting from constantly seeing other devices which provide solid and useful apps with no substantial progress made on the WebOS platform.

I totally agree that while the hip things may be fun for a short ride, genuinely useful apps are those in for the long-haul. My main point was not a desire for those quickie 'throw-away' apps which are forgotten about after a short time.


Many companies have (what appears to be) good apps for their customers on iOS/Droid but no plans to include WebOS. The list goes well beyond the few examples I described above. That's where I'm hoping HP/Palm gets attention in the developer community.


I like the sheep remark. That seems to be exactly the audience HP intends to target with this thing about Time Warner. It's a flashy thing, easy to go after because it's only one source/developer to make a splash.

It can be something along the lines of a chicken/egg situation. Developers aren't working for WebOS platform because of the low customer base so there aren't very many apps. However, HP will struggle to gain more customers until it has more apps.

It's up to HP to find a way to improve the situation. Hopefully they're not taking the lazy way out by praying that sales of the new gadgets draws developer attention.

[Hobbz]

Just remember, that like in high school, the cool kids were chosen by other cool kids not because they were actually cool. At your five year reunion it turns out that many of the non-cool kids were much more successful than those cool kids.

So, sometimes it not cool to be cool.

LOL -- nice!

Oh man, please don't feel so bad about it. :,( (I hate the lonely kid analogy; it always makes me feel bad.) As a tech lover, I know where you're coming from.

awww... don't feel bad, was a humorous analogy
just don't notice my bloodshot eyes and tissues all around my desk

[protomaxxx]

apps matter!

[ariker01]

Please tell me that isn't what you really think. That's like saying that if you just ignore the apps on other platforms then they don't exist.

Yes that's what I really think. I am aware of the countless apps on other platforms. I own an iPad 2 with 65k+ apps customized for the my tablet. But I don't need them for what I use my mobile device for. If you're an appoholic then invest in the platform that best fits your needs.

[kjb86]

Nah, you're absolutely right in regards about fads. That was just my colorful way to convey the thought with some humor. I see how that analogy can come across as insecurity. It's more of a frustration resulting from constantly seeing other devices which provide solid and useful apps with no substantial progress made on the WebOS platform.

I totally agree that while the hip things may be fun for a short ride, genuinely useful apps are those in for the long-haul. My main point was not a desire for those quickie 'throw-away' apps which are forgotten about after a short time.


Many companies have (what appears to be) good apps for their customers on iOS/Droid but no plans to include WebOS. The list goes well beyond the few examples I described above. That's where I'm hoping HP/Palm gets attention in the developer community.


I like the sheep remark. That seems to be exactly the audience HP intends to target with this thing about Time Warner. It's a flashy thing, easy to go after because it's only one source/developer to make a splash.

It can be something along the lines of a chicken/egg situation. Developers aren't working for WebOS platform because of the low customer base so there aren't very many apps. However, HP will struggle to gain more customers until it has more apps.

It's up to HP to find a way to improve the situation. Hopefully they're not taking the lazy way out by praying that sales of the new gadgets draws developer attention.

well first, thank you for not taking that too personally. By no means was that a stab or a flame or anything directed towards you, or anyone specific.

It was just my observation about trends.

I understand the frustration. But at the same point, HP isn't in this for short term success. HP is large, and they are in this for the long term 3-5 years. So sure we may not get instant gratification, we have to remind ourselves of the root strategy, and in my opinion, the right one.

yes.. as cliche as it is, the Egyptian pyramids weren't built in a day.

we truly don't know what's going on behind the scenes. And we won't know. We shouldn't know. So for any users who are seeking that short term desperate need for apps, then move to another platform. webOS won't be going anywhere, and it takes time to develop and build.

HP knows what they're doing (some people will disagree, but.. that's probably why they aren't in that type of employment position). Good things come to those who wait.

For me, my phone is simply that, a phone. To receive, make and do some extra's. At the end of the day, it's really all I need.

[giorgosmit]

I'm not a palm user. I am looking at the pre3 as my next phone, and I'm lurking here to see what the community and palm greybeards think about it. I have the only phone that could be said to be worse off than webOS when it comes to apps: the Nokia N900. At last count, it has something more than 1000 apps. Of these, about half are meant for general, non-obscure-or-geeky purposes. There is no essentially no store, only repos. And I don't really care.

The N900 is a very, very complete device out of the box (ridiculously so, in a goldbergesque way sometimes). There's very little that the iphone can do and the N900 can't- and a metric cr@pton that the N900 can do that make the iphone look like a toy. That stands also, I gather, for the pre3. If a device can do pretty much anything with its stock software, do you really need 300.000 apps? After a point it becomes pointless. I can't find anything that webOS lacks, except for bragging rights, really.

tl;dr : The "there's an app for that" mentality is overstated. And it stands only if your phone can't do "that" without an app in the first place.