[fxspec06]

Joshua Topolsky obviously exaggerated the e-mail issue (which I haven't experienced, and I have a Pixi Plus). One, he started swipping like crazy (it looked worse because you have to do a complete swipe, not half of the screen or anything); two, he started scrolling up and down until he found an error; and three, he did a search with more than 300 results and made the example with that.

I understand you're frustrated with HP and all, but I believe his review was way harsh, and he focused on a few problems, and kept exaggerating it. In fact, he just talked about few good points of the Veer, but missed almost all of them: webOS 2.0 features (stacks, Just Tpe, Quick Actions, Exhibition, etc.), beats the crap out of iOS and Android on multitasking and notifications, gesture area, and the many things we love about webOS. It was like: "I made a webOS 2.0 on Engadget, so now, on to the bad parts of the Veer".

Look, I've also felt bad about the whole situation with HP and lack of phones, and because of this, I've taken a look at the competition, and there's still no way I could switch to another platform, which you can guarantee there are also bugs and all that (just go to an iOS or Android forum, and you'll open your eyes).

Tell me which other smartphone lets you open the keyboard, type something, and let it add to a note instantly. Sometimes we need to step back and appreciate a product for what it is, not for what it should be. And webOS is the best for productivity, hands down.

Agreed, 110%.

[barkerja]

webOS 3.0 is a complete rewrite? I've seen no documentation by HP that states that (not saying it's not true) but I was under the impression it was a branch of 2.x designed for tablet.

[fxspec06]

webOS 3.0 is a complete rewrite? I've seen no documentation by HP that states that (not saying it's not true) but I was under the impression it was a branch of 2.x designed for tablet.

You might wanna go back and relive the Feb 9th event, or even check out hte HP developers page. It's pretty common knowledge that 2.x = mojo and 3.x = enyo, two completely different frameworks.. I'm not going to waste time explaining it (probably b/c I'm tired) but yes, they are completely re-writing literally every single thing from the ground up.

[barkerja]

Joshua Topolsky obviously exaggerated the e-mail issue (which I haven't experienced, and I have a Pixi Plus). One, he started swipping like crazy (it looked worse because you have to do a complete swipe, not half of the screen or anything); two, he started scrolling up and down until he found an error; and three, he did a search with more than 300 results and made the example with that.

I understand you're frustrated with HP and all, but I believe his review was way harsh, and he focused on a few problems, and kept exaggerating it. In fact, he just talked about few good points of the Veer, but missed almost all of them: webOS 2.0 features (stacks, Just Tpe, Quick Actions, Exhibition, etc.), beats the crap out of iOS and Android on multitasking and notifications, gesture area, and the many things we love about webOS. It was like: "I made a webOS 2.0 on Engadget, so now, on to the bad parts of the Veer".

Look, I've also felt bad about the whole situation with HP and lack of phones, and because of this, I've taken a look at the competition, and there's still no way I could switch to another platform, which you can guarantee there are also bugs and all that (just go to an iOS or Android forum, and you'll open your eyes).

Tell me which other smartphone lets you open the keyboard, type something, and let it add to a note instantly. Sometimes we need to step back and appreciate a product for what it is, not for what it should be. And webOS is the best for productivity, hands down.

This was a review about the Veer, not webOS. All of the points you make about webOS have previously been highlighted in other reviews.

[LCGuy]

This was a review about the Veer, not webOS. All of the points you make about webOS have previously been highlighted in other reviews.

This WAS about the VEER - its running WebOS on Veer hardware.

[barkerja]

You might wanna go back and relive the Feb 9th event, or even check out hte HP developers page. It's pretty common knowledge that 2.x = mojo and 3.x = enyo, two completely different frameworks.. I'm not going to waste time explaining it (probably b/c I'm tired) but yes, they are completely re-writing literally every single thing from the ground up.

webOS 2.2, won't it include Enyo?

[LCGuy]

webOS 2.2, won't it include Enyo?

I dont believe so... 3.0 is when Enyo starts being supported.

The Pre 2 will be upgradable to WebOS 3.0, and, therefore, will support Enyo apps, as well as Mojo apps.

This was the whole debacle regarding the non-support for original devices with new updates, if you remember - they decided to re-write the OS from scratch, in lieu of continue modifying the original OS code to accommodate Enyo and the older legacy OS, which would have taken much longer.

[firebrewd]

This was a review about the Veer, not webOS. All of the points you make about webOS have previously been highlighted in other reviews.

So why focus on bugs about webOS, and say the problems are with software?

[barkerja]

So why focus on bugs about webOS, and say the problems are with software?

You've got me. The email bug isn't really relevant to the Veer (at least in the context of this review) but the sluggishness certainly is as webOS should be 'making use' of the new hardware.

[barkerja]

I dont believe so... 3.0 is when Enyo starts being supported.

The Pre 2 will be upgradable to WebOS 3.0, and, therefore, will support Enyo apps, as well as Mojo apps.

This was the whole debacle regarding the non-support for original devices with new updates, if you remember - they decided to re-write the OS from scratch, in lieu of continue modifying the original OS code to accommodate Enyo and the older legacy OS, which would have taken much longer.

Well I understand that, I just find it difficult to believe that a mobile os can be rewritten from the ground up in just a years time. Generally endeavors like this take years (regardless of scale), which is why I think this isn't necessarily a rewrite but a branch.

[ZombieElvis]

People can dismiss Topolsky if they want but his concerns reflect those of a lot of outsiders who are interested in webOS but are afraid to pull the trigger because they are already heavily invested in other platforms like Android and iOS. In order to grow and thrive, webOS devices don't just have to match or worse yet, almost match, rival devices; they need to blow them away. And while throwing hardware at the problem is easy, HP also needs to kill bugs and optimize webOS for performance to take advantage of that hardware as well and that can be harder and more time consuming.

Optimizing webOS for performance has always been a problem as anyone who has spent a significant time on these forums can attest. And while we can be optimistic and patient in believing that HP will eventually fix what needs to be fixed in webOS, people invested in other platforms will not be so patient.

While the Veer is likely to be a good low end smartphone, HP needs a balls to the wall, uncompromising high end phone as well. I hope the Pre 3 can be that phone.

[nyallj]

Moderators: why is this thread still in the Veer forum? Everybody complaining it seems to me how their launch date hardware still has OS lag.

[koolkid09]

Moderators: why is this thread still in the Veer forum? Everybody complaining it seems to me how their launch date hardware still has OS lag.

Because they are relating their experiences with their current devices with reviews of the Veer.

[ieko]

When I search for emails and delete or delete a lot of emails at once, this happens..

It happened to me on my Pre, Pre+, Pixi, Pixi+, and Pre 2. I've used the Veer, and I'm betting it'd have the same issue -- this issue is real, and it's not the hardware, it's software.

The performance boosts from Enyo/webOS 3.0 should eliminate issues like this, but until that comes out then these issues are valid.

For those interested, I sync 6 e-mail accounts.

[VCI_Cell]

You got to be joking right? That's the main problem with webos. It is so slow and laggy to use. I don't see things load with android. Everything is instant.

I saw you post something like this in another thread. I chuckled then and just did again.

You've had quite the unique Android experience, it seems. I see plenty of "loading" on my Evo, the superphone that everyone lauded for its power, but which stumbles badly even in simple tasks like home-screen swiping. Not to mention the force-closes and nearly unusable (due to lag) keyboard.

Meanwhile my Pre 2 on webOS 2.1 is like lightning.

If "everything is instant" on your Android, you've either got a brand new phone, you're running a super-clean stock build, or you're exaggerating so you can trash-talk webOS. Which one do you think I'm leaning toward?

[Loiter]

OK, so the problem is that you have to wait 1-2secs for an app to load?
Really?
Yes, of course I'd like my apps to load instantly, however this is not a big problem for me.
HP/Palm phones INDEEED have problems, but the real problems are others. Absence of important applications (I'm not talking about having a million f@rt apps, just a .doc processor, Shazam or things like that which exist for almost all other OS), geo-restrictions in apps for people in other countries, not so good hardware (in terms of sliders, creaking sounds) etc.
I see a review of a guy that uses his huge thumb in a tiny phone swiping like a maniac in all directions after a 300 search result. That's not a serious "hands on" video. And then he loads the App Store and says "Well... It loaded fast enough now, but trust me it's slow". And I hear that this guy is an expert or something?
You could say a billion things about the Veer. The absence of a jack, this silly magnetic thing, its really tiny size etc. But making a review for a phone and trying to make webOS look sluggish and buggy in this way it's a bit unfair IMHO.

PS I just tried to lighting-delete my emails in my Pre2. Well I did it with no problems. I swiped like a maniac and deleted many of them without having any problems.

[j_benj]

You're making my point for me. You shouldn't have to install homebrew to fix problems on a phone! Your average phone consumer won't do that. If HP wants a phone that will achieve mass appeal(like the centro) it just has to work. WebOS is simple enough from a UI standpoint, but it needs to be able to perform! Opening 30 cards at once is an impractical way to test performance for day to day use. It's cool that it can do that, but nothing more.

actually if you read my post i said i didn't have problems deleting emails with or without the patch. i haven't proven your point for you

[leebae]

I understand. Constructive criticism can certainly lead to improvement. Pointing out obvious flaws/bugs is a much more effective approach than ignoring and/or excusing them.

My point was simply that I have not experienced lag as Josh demonstrated on my device (Pixi+). I feel the review was a little harsh. I felt the issue may have been slightly exaggerated.

[Superjudge]

I thought the "lag" was inherent part of webos since the apps are built with uncompiled code. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with things such as scrolling issues and some of the issues JT complained about with his email in the TIMN review though.

[fxspec06]

I recently turned on the pre with the 1ghz oc and loaded the forum app. It took almost 10 seconds to start. If you compare stock webos to stock android I think it shows how much work palm needs to do.

In all fairness you shouldn't be comparing the Pre -/+ w/OC, you should be comparing the Pre 2. It's a lot faster.....

I'm not saying that WebOS doesn't have lag or bugs, but the Pre processor is very slow, especially comparing both side by side.