[Sonic-NKT]

Hey,
just found this statement from a official O2 Person on the german O2 Support Forum.

Hallo ferribaci,



als ursprünglicher Exklusivpartner für die webOS-Geräte auf dem europäischen Markt mit Telefónica-o2 Ländergesellschaften haben wir ein besonderes Interesse, unsere Kunden mit den neuesten Updates zu versorgen. Wir haben daher versucht, HP zu überzeugen, auf die Bedürfnisse der Bestandskunden einzugehen und die zugesagten Updates auch wirklich anzubieten. Doch leider stellte sich bei HP erst sehr spät heraus, dass die Hardware-Anforderungen des webOS 2.0 für das Palm Pre und Palm Pixi Plus zu hoch sind. Deshalb möchte HP nun doch kein Update zur Verfügung stellen.



Für das Palm Pre Plus soll es dagegen schon bald ein Update auf webOS 2.0 geben. Es wird dieses Mal nicht automatisch über das Mobilfunknetz bereitgestellt (OTA), sondern ist nur über die Software webOS Doctor installierbar, die man von der HP-Website herunterladen kann. Für unsere Kunden mit einem Palm Pre oder einem Palm Pixi Plus setzen wir uns weiter bei HP dafür ein, dass sie zumindest ein reduziertes Update bekommen, das an die Technik der älteren Hardware angepasst ist. Die endgültige Entscheidung darüber liegt allerdings bei HP.



Schöne Grüße

Matthias

Betreff: Kein webOS Update für Pre von O2 - o2 Forum

For all those that cant speak german i will try to translate this

As originaly only european Partner of webOS-Devices, we have a big interest in giving our Customers the newest Updates. Because of that we tried to convince HP to listen to the needs of the early adopters and to release the update they announced. But they (HP) had to figure out, pretty late tho, that the Palm Pre and Pixi plus are hardware wise not capable of running webOs 2.0, because of that HP wont release an update for those Devices.

The Pre Plus on the other hand will get an official Update to webOS 2.0 soon, but it wont be available as OTA, you have to use the webosdoctor software to get it onto your devices, you will be able to download it from the HP-Website. We keep tryining to convince HP for our Customers of Pre and Pixis Plus Devices to release a reduced Update, that is adjusted for the older Hardware. The ultimate decision for this lies in the hands of HP tho.

Greetings
Matthias.

Hope that means atleast a 1.5 bugfix (maybe with flash) release for all of us early adopters.
On the german forums many pre users a complaining about the situation, many (like me) bought the device from O2 for 481€ and pay 20€ a month for 2 years to pay the device off (without a contract). Now we have to pay for atleast 6 more month for a device that maybe wont see any software support anymore and that wont even get the features that were promised to us over the last 2 years.
Anyway, im glad o2 seems to listen to its customers and may be able to push enough pressure on HP to release atleast something.

PS: sorry for the bad english, im not a native speaker

[GodShapedHole]

It's kinda interesting from a geeky point of view that the Pre Plus can do 2.0 whereas the Pre Minus can't. That makes it painfully obvious that RAM, not computing power, is the culprit.

HP is in a heck of a situation here. Palm were *so* sure they could pull off 2.0 on the OG Pre, but after a lot of testing, it turns out that 2.0 isn't stable and/or usable on a mere 256MB of ram.

If they release 2.0 to the old Pres and Pixis, and the experience sucks, people will be up in arms.
If they choose not to release 2.0 to devices that can't handle it because the experience would only suck anyway - as they did - people ARE up in arms.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

(don't announce anything, people up in arms "please just announce something, anything, NOW because I can't wait! Even a leak is fine!". announce something not ready for market to placate people, people up in arms "why isn't it available now? Fail!")

I for one am in your boat - O2 MyHandy am ersten Tag als es das Pre hier zu kaufen gab abgeschlossen und immernoch munter am abbezahlen - and sure hope that we'll get SOMETHING. HP had to fight with a lot of problems, but right now, it's a lose-lose situation for early adopters (dare I say beta testers) of webOS 1 -AND- for HP, who are in serious danger of pi$$ing off their userbase, which is already leading to some very negative word-of-mouth rippling through the internets.

It sure would be nice if they showed a little gratitude to those of us that got the **** end of the recent developments in webOS development (no pun intended). It would also do wonders for their public perception, if the little gratitude was just nice enough.

[Sonic-NKT]

im still thinking that 2.0 is possible on the pre, its is, like you said, almost identical with the + minus the 256mb ram. i could even dismiss flash but what i really hate is all those missing apis in the our "old" firmware and that our devices are capable of so much more and most future apps would run just fine but they wont because of the outdated OS.
I still believe that HP is just not intrested in the old and almost dead hardware (that is still sold!!!!) and want to push the current and future devices with its new awesome and shiny WebOS 2.0. WebOS-Internals will prove in the future that the original pre will run 2.0 quite well when the release the Plus Doctor + kernel Sources...

i really wonder if the release a last official update for our devices, and if yes, when? because if it takes 3 more month or so most people wont be intrested in it anymore. So... DO SOMETHING! and do it FAST! (but this seems to be a hard task for HP/Palm)

[GodShapedHole]

Having twice as much RAM available is kind of a big deal. Maybe 2.0 would mostly run beautifully on a Pre Minus... until the time comes to actually open an app, at which point no cards are too many.

I, too, am looking forward to what webOS Internals can do for us. But I'm looking forward to HP's 'something special' that's supposed to do right by us Minus users even more (cough trade-in credit for HP webOS devices cough)

[Sonic-NKT]

yeah i now that twice the ram is in several aspects a huge difference, but when i can run a huge GBA Rom in VBA, a SNES Rom in SuperNES, several browser cards and other apps at the same time without any slow down (ok at 800mhz, Uberkernel) i just cant believe that the device wont be capable of 2.0. Unless its coded pretty badly...

[gnark]

ah.. technical political strategical mix

but cool to hear that the issue is on the radar screen of o2. might mean that they have interest in selling new webos devices

[poppeye]

this sounds full of truth with the combination of 'stay tuned' announcement on european pre plus

webOS 2 update checker says "maybe" for European Pre Plus, everybody stay calm | PreCentral.net | The #1 Palm Pre and Pixi Community

plus I have a friend running 2.0.1 on his minus, and it seems to suffer at times with memory (but quickly recovers after programs are shut down). Flash is horribly unusable, and I suspect thats at least partly to do with memory.

[mhunterjr]

its interesting to hear a carrier respond to the issue. In the US, the carriers wont even acknowledge that webOS exists.

the "reduced Update" concept is intriguing

[rwhitby]

If O2 release a webOS 2.0 doctor for the Pre Plus, you can use Meta-Doctor to customise and flash it on a Pre Minus.

-- Rod

[gollyzila]

If O2 release a webOS 2.0 doctor for the Pre Plus, you can use Meta-Doctor to customise and flash it on a Pre Minus.

-- Rod

As a popular internet meme man once said "Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god!"

[PreRunr]

I have an O2 Pre- can we update the ram of a pre - to pre +? Sorry if this has been done already.

[kilroy]

I wonder what happens 2 years from now when we all have a Pre3 with webOS 2.x or 3.x and HP announces the Pre4 with webOS 4.x and says all the old Pre3's are too old and slow and won't get the webOS 4.x update.

[rwhitby]

I wonder what happens 2 years from now when we all have a Pre3 with webOS 2.x or 3.x and HP announces the Pre4 with webOS 4.x and says all the old Pre3's are too old and slow and won't get the webOS 4.x update.

Presumably they will have learnt a lesson and not promise it until it's a done deal.

-- Rod

[rwhitby]

I have an O2 Pre- can we update the ram of a pre - to pre +? Sorry if this has been done already.

No.

-- Rod

[GodShapedHole]

I wonder what happens 2 years from now when we all have a Pre3 with webOS 2.x or 3.x and HP announces the Pre4 with webOS 4.x and says all the old Pre3's are too old and slow and won't get the webOS 4.x update.

Two years sounds like an OK update cycle though - how long do you want HP to support old hardware? Forever? Why don't you try running Windows 7 on that old Pentium 2 of yours?

The problem with our Pres and Pixis is that the buyout completely stopped the presses in a manner of speaking, possibly also because HP decided to make changes to things when they took over. Chances are that HP webOS 2.0 as we know it is quite a bit different from Palm webOS 2.0 as Palm had it worked out when HP came along and bought them.

Had Palm been able to stay up alone, maybe we would've gotten a less capable 2.0 that would've worked on Minus phones last summer. Like Ruby said, webOS effectively missed one product cycle.

I don't think anybody except the professional complainers on this forum would have been mad if the original Pre had gotten 2.0 but was now unable to run 3.0. One major update in the middle of a device's life is the perfect way to handle obsolescence. The Pre simply missed that.

No.

-- Rod

Wait - can only CDMA Pres be plussed?

[rwhitby]

can only CDMA Pres be plussed?

That's not what he asked.

-- Rod

[gnark]

my opinion is: if it ll run on a plus there should be hackery possible that will run it on a minus. not saying it ll be legal.

[rwhitby]

my opinion is: if it ll run on a plus there should be hackery possible that will run it on a minus. not saying it ll be legal.

The fact is that a public release by HP of a webOS 2.x doctor for a Pre+ can be used by an end user along with the WebOS Internals meta-doctor to legally flash their own Pre- device. What that end-user cannot do is redistribute that modified (or unmodified) webOS Doctor.

What is illegal at the moment is the redistribution by certain parties of unreleased software that they have no legal right under copyright law (let alone contract law covering the NDA that was broken in the first place) to redistribute.

-- Rod

[GodShapedHole]

That's not what he asked.

-- Rod

He asked whether he could 'update' the RAM of his O2 Pre- to Pre+. If that's not asking about plussing an O2 Pre-, what is it?

[tholap]

If O2 release a webOS 2.0 doctor for the Pre Plus, you can use Meta-Doctor to customise and flash it on a Pre Minus.

-- Rod

I assume somebody already checked how much RAM webos 2.x uses on a Pre 2?
That would give us a fair approximation of whether it can work on the original Pre.

Having a doctor that can transplant 2.x on a Pre will be pointless if the OS tries to take up 260 MB of RAM after boot.

I just played around a bit on my Pre with the Terminal and it seems that at most I have less than 15 MB (been days since I booted though). My most used app - Newsroom - eats roughly 1-2 MB. (my quick tests were utterly unscientfic and very anecdotal though)

2.x with Enyo and whatnot could have easily eaten that 15 MB for breakfast - unless they found some other stuff to clean out and optimize away.