[garynuman]

hey rod, first of all thanks for all you do, I love my pre and that has more to do with you than HP/Palm...that said do you have any idea why they won't release a 2.0doctor for existing pre's? i understand the issues with the OTA update, but see no reason why they can't release a doctor for more technically inclined users, of course it would come with caveats... I've been looking but haven't seen you chime in anywhere on this issue...

[rwhitby]

90% of future Veer, Pre 3 and TouchThat users will not even have heard of conflicting statements, cancelled rollouts, unhappy customers.

Hopefully, it's more than 99% ... otherwise the global scale of HP will have meant nothing.

-- Rod

[rwhitby]

hey rod, first of all thanks for all you do, I love my pre and that has more to do with you than HP/Palm...that said do you have any idea why they won't release a 2.0doctor for existing pre's? i understand the issues with the OTA update, but see no reason why they can't release a doctor for more technically inclined users, of course it would come with caveats... I've been looking but haven't seen you chime in anywhere on this issue...

I have no official or unofficial information from Palm on this issue.

It's clear that "legacy" devices *can* run webOS 2.x (there are videos of such on the internet) to varying degrees (mainly depending on RAM), but whether it runs well enough to get carrier approval for release, or whether there are other financial or legal impediments, are open questions that only Palm can answer.

-- Rod

[garynuman]

thanks for the super quick response, yes it does run well, i found it "in the usual places" and played around with it before going back to 1.4.5 since i like my setup i have (again, thank you/webosinternals for that...). i'm on a sprint pre minus and it wasn't slow/laggy at all, would have been amazing with even a slight overclock and compcache enabled... But thats what made me curious it seems almost complete/ready for release, you must be right about it being a carrier/monetary/legal issue, that or HP really really just wants to reboot and relaunch the platform as a whole... either way i was playing around with a evo shift at sprint yesterday and android is still not even close to webOS in terms of usability so looks like i'm sticking around in hopes of a sprint pre3 "in the coming months", can't wait to see the absurd patches/kernels you guys come out with for that!

[Mattykinsx]

Looking at it the other way, that means HP engineers did give it a shot, just unfortunately couldn't get it done.

There's nothing wrong with that but give me one reason they couldn't do that FIRST and THEN announce whatever?

Making promises BEFORE you confirm you can fulfill them is the last thing a company trying to build from nothing should do.

[rwhitby]

My gut feeling is that Palm's answer (or somebody inside Palm acting on existing customer's behalf) is the leaked 2.0.1 doctor files. A simple leak of existing code that coincidentally is packaged for all three major US carriers is the perfect way to get around carrier certification, as well as liability for supporting failed upgrades since anyone using it is technically using "stolen" software. Whatever you do, don't download *this* "beta" software, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Oh, and not to start a conspiracy theory, but I think that webos-internals may be part of this plot. Although they are very cautious not to post links to the leaked doctor files for now, the last paragraph on this wiki page of theirs does caution that upgrading from 1.4.x to 2.0.x will wipe your USB partition:

Webos Doctor Versions - WebOS Internals



Clearly, they have at least seen the official 2.0.x doctor files intended for legacy phones.....

Unfortunately for your theory, History of changes to Webos Doctor Versions shows that the person who added that line is not associated with WebOS Internals.

But it is indeed true that the webOS 2.0 doctor when running on a "legacy" device may wipe your USB partition, since the flash partitioning layout has changed, and the webOS Doctor wipes everything if anything at all has changed in that area.

-- Rod

[bubbahooska]

I don't know if they will manage, but it's quite clear HP is trying to buy their [WebOS Internals] silence. Considering the radical shift in tone in the last tweets it appears to be working too...

I've been a daily reader of TreoCentral, then PreCentral, since before I got my Treo600. And of everything I've read, the quoted post is the silliest, most far-fetched, most ignorant post I've seen, as well as being the most baseless, ludicrous insult I've read.

WebOS Internals is one of the best things ever to happen to any smartphone community. IDG ... well ...you're probably right ... you would be happier with a different phone, and a different discussion forum. Buh bye.

[Cantaffordit]

I have to agree it is completely without merit.

[Cantaffordit]

Clearly, they have at least seen the official 2.0.x doctor files intended for legacy phones.....

this is silly. There may have been a beta version floating around, but it hasn't been completed or released. It would be crazy to do something based on an early beta... And illegal.

[bubbahooska]

Making promises BEFORE you confirm you can fulfill them is the last thing a company trying to build from nothing should do.

You're probably right. I'm sure that HP sees itself as "trying to build something from nothing," and therefore would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this. After all, they bought Palm to get the Palm smartphone business, right? No? Well, then they bought Palm to get its installed user base, right? No? Must have been the trademarks then. Oh. That's right, they bought Palm to get webOS, largely to use on non-smartphone devices. We (Pre users) were practically an afterthought). Back in July, we were worried that the entire webOS phone line might be dead forever. We weren't really concerned about upgrading our current phones, which most of us agreed had crappy hardware. We wanted HP to put its muscle behind releasing new phones. And if HP had asked us to, this forum would have happily bent over and kissed HP's ***, if HP said that's what it would take to convince HP to make more webOS phones. Now HP is doing that, and we're griping because they didn't upgrade the old Palm phones that we said were garbage hardware.

If HP is smart, I think their best move is to get the names of everyone who is really pi55ed off, and then make sure all those people go by iPhones.

There's nothing wrong with that but give me one reason they couldn't do that FIRST and THEN announce whatever?

HP made the mistake of believing that they could get 2.0 on the original Pre without too much difficulty, so they said they would do it. Then they eventually found they had bitten off more then they could chew. And, as if that hasn't happened a million times in various business contexts, people here act like it's the end of the world. In the real world, breaking a promise like that results in legal damages. For me, damages would be the difference in value between my Pre as is, and my Pre with 2.0 installed. So that would be, what, $75 vs. $55? So, legally, HP owes me maybe $20? But that's only if HP had a contractual obligation to give me the upgrade. Which they probably didn't.

[Mike_Parenti]

As I posted earlier . . . Judge people and companies on their actions and not their words or the words of others. Palm's actions have been consistent over the years. Now I will base my opinions based on their actions. They denounced overclocking devices because they knew it would take the thunder out of the Pre2. If there was a real problem with overclocking they wouldn't have said anything at all about it. They would have enjoyed selling us new devices after we bricked our phones. But overclocking works too well, so they had no choice but to give the Pre2 something special, webOS 2.X is that special thing. That is the biggest reason they are withholding the updates to the older hardware. They need to sell the Pre2. My guess is they are going to take more control of the OS and close the "openness" as well. They will give all kinds of excuses for going back on their word, but the truth is if anyone from that company told me the time of day, I would check my watch anyway.
Move on to another product if you want or stay with HP-Palm if you want. But don't buy a product based on a promise, buy it for what it is now. Tomorrow never comes, we exist in today.

[Cantaffordit]

they didn't denounce overclocking, so how did you know "why" they did that?

[rwhitby]

Palm have never denounced overclocking, either publicly or privately.

-- Rod

[Wiley_11]

@ rwhitby

Is their anything you can share about the app catalog going forward. My concern is some of the devs are saying we're starting from square one. A post today said tens of thousands of apps coming. Any input would be appreciated.

[bluenote]

If 2.0 can run on current devices and the carriers are not providing OTA, then Palm would have to shoulder the burden of customer support, which is customarily borne by the carrier. Further if you are saying that the hard drive may be overwritten, that is a software decision by HP to no longer support current customers.

If so, then why would Ruby say the hardware is underpowered as he apparently said to Engadget? It is self-serving because it says that the customer's situation is lacking because they have weak hardware rather than HP is lacking because they won't spend on customer support or providing an incremental software solution with features that will work without overwriting hard drives.

I am not so much concerned with this for myself as I have an upgrade from my carrier but I am distressed for my work partner who I convinced to buy a preplus a year ago and who now has an orphaned phone, "underpowered" indeed but not so much by hardware but rather by software. He could sorely use voice dialing and some other key features.

FYI, just told a non-tech friend to buy the iphone rather than android. I steered her to Apple rather than Verizon to help set up her new phone and they stayed with her for 3 hours, even after the store closed. They also sold her a yearly subscription to their mobile sync service, a win for them in a tough economy as her budget is tight (the sync service normally is 50% of the subsidized phone price so it is almost like Apple is selling 1.5 phones to the same customer over the two year life span). She was already pre-disposed towards Apple as they have spent many hours with her helping with the mac and now they have another product and an annual subscription from her. If HP wants to be the ecosystem, I wonder if they will eventually have to change the way they do customer support.

[Brother Al]

Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap, BRAVO!!!

[sketch42]

Palm have never denounced overclocking, either publicly or privately.

-- Rod

Didn't they say NOT to for it wil void your warranty???

-- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums

[rwhitby]

Didn't they say NOT to for it wil void your warranty???

-- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums

Perhaps you have only read media reports of what they said, and not actually read their words yourself:

"Palm is working hard to improve the speed and performance of webOS, as shown in our recent 1.4 update. While we appreciate the effort the webOS community has put forth to try and help us along that path, the use of this application is neither endorsed nor recommended by Palm and will likely result in a voided warranty."

Hardly a denunciation ... note that it is worded very carefully, and never once tells you *not* to overclock.

-- Rod

-- Sent from my computer using a program that does not put annoying advertisements about itself at the end of my messages ...

[noseph]

I do not believe it has any thing to do with horse power on the "Legacy" Pre's, as show by the several individuals running 2.0 on Pre-'s. I suspect that it is all to do with our Palm Profile not being able to be updated on the same device when running 2.0. I have no technical proof that this is what the problem is, just that everyone that I have read about that has put 2.0 on their Legacy Pre has had to create a new Palm Profile. I am guessing that HP does not want to deal with this.

[emilio355]

You Know What I Think About All This Is That HP Should Of Never Bought WebOS They Just Screwed Up And Messed Up Palm's Image Palm Worked There <mod edit> Off Since 2009 On WebOS So Some Ignorent Company Comes And Buys It Nd Just Screwes It Up Nd In My Opinion Is That All Of You Guys Going With HP Are Just Kissing HP <mod edit>