[Volcom45]

But what's the problem? that the apps don't appear on the catalog? Have you tried using Preware to look for them and then trying to buy one?

I see the apps just fine, I attempted to purchase Koto Player, and I instantly get a "Purchase failed" message, I tap on it and then it shows "The item could not be purchased. Try again later. PMT02023" :P

[MOLeary]

Absolutely. As soon as the complaints reach a maturity level that make the analogy meaningless.

Please note, nowhere have I said all of the complaints fall into that category. I've complained about it. However, there are certainly a number of complaints that fit that category.

Personally, I see the analogy no more annoying than the profanity filled video that many have pointed to with glee - which by the way, exmplifies the point I was making with the analogy.

Why do you care what the maturity level is for those who are expressing their disappointment? Why does it bother you that some people are being a bit crazy over something that happens far too often in all industries? Personally I care more about the fact that HP's left hand can't seem to figure out what its right hand is doing than what some "immature" people think about the situation.

You belittling the "immature" people comes off as you trying to heroically defend HP's honor by making them seem like they are unfairly attacking HP. HP is a big company and they can take care of themselves. They don't need you to fight their battles for them on some message board.

[ekuns]

OK, now that you're laughing, and seeing some humor in this, tell me honestly - Doesn't this whole WebOS-hating stuff you see on here remind you of jr high breakup stuff?

I wouldn't go that far. Yes, there have been some histrionics and a lot of drama, but when you're talking about a fanbase for any product, you're talking about a group of people enriched in, well, fanaticism. Fanatic can be a good or a bad description of someone, after all, depending on context. It just comes with the territory.

Are some people taking valid reasons to be upset and having over-the-top reactions with a lot of arguably unnecessary drama? Yes. It doesn't render the reasons they're upset invalid. I understood your analogy the first time. It's just a harsher analogy than I would use.

[hparsons]

Why do you care what the maturity level is for those who are expressing their disappointment? Why does it bother you that some people are being a bit crazy over something that happens far too often in all industries? Personally I care more about the fact that HP's left hand can't seem to figure out what its right hand is doing than what some "immature" people think about the situation.

You belittling the "immature" people comes off as you trying to heroically defend HP's honor by making them seem like they are unfairly attacking HP. HP is a big company and they can take care of themselves. They don't need you to fight their battles for them on some message board.

Sigh... I suppose I could be snarky and ask what do you care about what I care about?

But I won't, or at least, I won't be any more snarky than I already have.

Honest answers to your questions.

1. I like the forum when it's not filled up with a lot of silliness. I guess there's this hope deep inside of me that continues to spring forth that those that don't like the device will go to a web site for devices they do like, and allow the rest of use more mature conversation. And yes, there is the possibility for that, even on this particular topic. I suppose if there were far fewer of the types of posts we're talking about, more reasonable disucssion would stand out more (including mine, where I've said a number of times if they haven't followed through by the time I'm ready to do something - June 6 - I'm gone), and folks like you would think more highly of me than believing I'm "heroically trying to defend HP".
2. Failing that, responding to them is sort of like going to Funny Pictures at WalMart - but interactively.

[festmaster]

I posted on the Palm blog on Sunday that the HP commercial on Saturday Night Live had a URL that linked to a Pre Plus with 2.0 running Exhibition mode. Today the Pre Plus image disappeared (making my blog post look lame, but they already made me look lame buying a device 6 months before end-of-life)

[Volcom45]

Is anyone running the 2.0.1 beta finding that if you just start typing rather than tapping on the "Just type" field, that your first character ends up being a number or (!?#$) rather than the letter you tapped? Extremely annoying. It behaves normally if I tap the Just Type area and then start typing in the opened window but just typing outside of that acts like the SYM key is down first when its not..

[UncleVanya]

Is anyone running the 2.0.1 beta finding that if you just start typing rather than tapping on the "Just type" field, that your first character ends up being a number or (!?#$) rather than the letter you tapped? Extremely annoying. It behaves normally if I tap the Just Type area and then start typing in the opened window but just typing outside of that acts like the SYM key is down first when its not..

I see this in webOS 1.4.5 - but as I type it realizes when I start using non-numbers that it is not a number. It was a little weird when I first saw it. Post specific examples and I would be happy to try them on my 1.4.5 to validate that the behavior is or isn't the same.

[mjsmiley]

Has the uproar faded? Are we all going to just wait through the next couple weeks? It seems like the group has been pacified... I for one am still really disatisfied with the blatent counterdictions, misleadings and game changing anouncement and the tedious and ambiguous wait periods with no solid information. I feel their overall goal is to string us along by dangling a carrot with promises that in some undetermined amount of time, we'll get what was promised and now something to make up for it. I continue to email HP and login to their chat sessions.

[ekuns]

Has the uproar faded?

I suspect that the relative quiet means (depending on the person):

1. The people who were the angriest and able to switch already have. They're gone, and have already given their parting shots.
2. The people who are angry but want to see what HP will do (or cannot switch right now) have all had their say and don't need to say it again.
3. It's a week later and people are calming down.
4. Perhaps some people have moved from Denial and Anger to Bargaining, Depression, or Acceptance.
5. There is, of course, some number of people who were disappointed (or not), but never angry.

It's a week later, and we haven't really heard anything new from HP. (Since Palm is still a separate business unit, but the brand is gone, I don't know if I should say "Palm" or "HP".) What more is there to say, except to wait and see what HP does?

[Brother Al]

As much as I'd like to pour some directed anger at some on this thread... I will refrain.

Although I do understand your disgust with some of the compainers here... There is plenty of justification... Grouping folks who are upset/angry into a "Whiners" catagory is pathetic. Those who Need a "Mature" conversation, here are some clarified points for angry WebOS users, ("w"ebOS for you technocrats).

1.) There are plenty of newer Pre/Pixi owners who unknowingly bought into a dead product line-up, despite all of the "Official" offerings of "Soon-To-Be" updates, that are not coming, despite various Web reviews, & despite encouragement by HP's acquisition of Palm. Comparing them to other Dead-OS platform users is not even remotely worthy... Are we not talking webOS here? A fairly New OS with barely 1 actual Real Generation of Hardware... (yes both - & +).... Pre 2 doesn't even count
2.) Some rely quite heavily on their smartphones for both Personal & Professional applications... An area Palm HAD been known to be exceptionally good at with the Treo lineup... Pre/Pixi had been adverstised with, (or promised to get) the same level of productivity...
3.) HP seemingly expects it's patrons to throw more good money after bad... Reasoning here being all of the notorious problems found with Sprint's debut of the Pre... Multiple Defects/Replacements... (See also largest owner group).
4.) Despite various videos & downplaying, 2.0 beta was/is possible on current devices, despite issues... An honest, more in-depth statement should have been made clarifying the problems long ago.
5.) As stated above, despite the handfuls of dedicated WebOS loyalists on this forum, many current Palm fans will, or have, already left by the time HP gets anything out the door. This announcement of "No OTA" was the final straw for many with upgrades &/or failing devices.
6.) Apotheker's statements & Rubenstein's apology show how HP is either a complete & utter cluster * or Someone has no idea of what they are doing, bluffed the Big Boss, & quiety tried to hush hush a serious problem in the wake of Feb 9th's Excitement.
7.) Getting the Pre2 out to Verizon & having them charge $50 more than HP's own price shows that there isn't a drive to push these at all, even as their current largest sales outlet. This means Verizon lacks faith in this product's overall sales volume vs profit margin ratio.
8.) HP leaving/forgetting their entire developer base stranded & then scrambling to lure them back with free Pre2's... even though HP has seemingly given little info for them to work with on Enyo... Ie a rocky, broken transition to their yet-unknown "Promised" future. Leaves many skeptical at best.

WebOS IS great & may hold great future promise if HP manages to get it's act together, however...
As of right now, I will liken Palm/WebOS to AMC/Eagle 4x4... (for those of you too young, GOOGLE It).
American Motors Corporation... An American auto company with a innovative past, but rapidly shrinking market share... beloved by it's customers with a cult-like following, (to this very day), The AMC Eagle 4x4 was a new, exciting, superior vehicle to all of it's competitor's similar products when it came out, (conceptually speaking), good on gas, compact, advanced but simple all-wheel-drive & 4x4 systems). AMC fortold the coming of the SUV Craze & was THE trend setter in that segment... but poor quality & bad company decisions led to AMC going broke. It soldout to Chrysler Motors, quickly ruined... "AMC" name went away, their "Jeep" brand hid in the shadows, & Eagle died as a rebadged Mitsubishi junk.... Meanwhile, another company (Subaru) capitalized on those concept ideas, to very great success in that segment.

Also:
Both of these people really did sum up the feelings many have... That's why they ARE FUNNY...

ee33507:

Jonnybryce:

[VCI_Cell]

Has the uproar faded? Are we all going to just wait through the next couple weeks? It seems like the group has been pacified... I for one am still really disatisfied with the blatent counterdictions, misleadings and game changing anouncement and the tedious and ambiguous wait periods with no solid information. I feel their overall goal is to string us along by dangling a carrot with promises that in some undetermined amount of time, we'll get what was promised and now something to make up for it. I continue to email HP and login to their chat sessions.

Good luck with inciting the revolution. I, for one, welcome the new (relative) silence.

[Psychonaut]

Good luck with inciting the revolution. I, for one, welcome the new (relative) silence.

+1

[UncleVanya]

See this thread also:

http://forums.precentral.net/general...-no-no-no.html

I think everyone is on pins and needles waiting to see two things:

1) What HP's vague promise of "helping" 1.x users will mean.
2) What the impact of this framentation is on application development.

#2 is the one that carries the most concern and look no farther than nDrive to see it in action. But HP has announced some vague effort to help developers in the Mojo/Enyo divided world they have created - so perhaps this will be a temporary blip and things will get better?

I think lastly that enough has been said by some and the ire is out there. It's hard to say the same things over and over and not get tired of hearing them. Many of us are locked into contracts or unwilling to leave carriers and the exodus may be long and slow. The long term impact by word of mouth is a greater potential threat than any ranting and raving here.

[Rockbeast]

Maybe the reason for silence is...SQUIRREL!?

[giograves]

I'm still quite vexed because if i had have known 2.0 wasn't coming to my Pre- I would have bailed before the Sprint Jan 31st 10$ smartphone activation deadline

Now i sit here in limbo totally on the fence if I'm ready to accept this new charge when i only WANT a new phone. Not NEED one.

[Volcom45]

I've come to grips with my anger and realized the joke would only be on me and not HPalm if I went to Android or iphone.. because they both suck and I like webOS most still.. so I'll be waiting for the Pre3 and I'll be switching carriers if Sprint doesn't get it given my 2 year contract is up June 6th.

[Sgnos]

"Locked into contracts" is exactly the problem. Those that were upset and finacially able to move on have moved on, those that weren't locked in have moved on.
those who are left are the ones with a year or more on their contract holding a dead end in their hand.
once enyo is out, from what I've seen, no one will be developing in mojo. This means that 1.X is dead.
1.X is a dead end either today or "in the coming months".

[Brother Al]

Well, I did get a reply the other day directly from someone at HP regarding my Email to them...
I am very, VERY Impressed, because they replied by not only by phone, but with a real apology... An no, it wasn't just some person at a call center reading scripted messages either....Here is the whole thing A-Z:

My Letter to HP in full...
---------------------------------------------
Dear HP,

I am a longtime Palm Product owner/user & bought one of the first versions of Palm Pilot. I was very much looking forward to the February 9th "HP-Palm Debut", but I have gone from being "Overly Ecstatic" to "Utterly Disgusted. The majority of Devoted Palm owners, followers, & developers are quite en-flamed by your recent disclosures about the future of existing WebOS products & OTA support.

I was Very, Very Impressed w/ the various media reports of the products you unveiled & immediately went onto my Sprint Pre to see the website promo video. It was on your site in "Flash" format.
(See: "not avail. on WebOS now")
"Just a Small Oversight", I thought.
I tried to call your HP-Palm Customer Service to see if that could be addressed. I went through the voice prompts, only to be transferred to the "Product Tech Line",(3x). "OK, no problem."
So I wrote an email describing the issue, figuring that HP was simply overwhelmed w/ calls. Then I realized that our beloved "Palm" name pretty much vanished.
"Saddening, but understandable."
Then I noticed that "Gestures" doesn't appear to exist on the new lineup.
"Hmm, that's not good. It's a great multi-task feature."
Last night I discovered:
"HP has no intentions of releasing WebOS 2.0 as an OTA upgrade for older WebOS products, along w/ no "Flash", nor will it see any major WebOS upgrades in the future..."
A weak apology was offered on your Official Palm Product Website Blog, offering us only more empty promises. (bangs head against wall).

It would seem that either HP does not fully understand how devoted the Palm faithful are to WebOS, or that HP simply doesn't care & wrote us all off as an acceptable casualty of Business... If so, then you made a massively gross error in your judgment of the repercussions.

I am a proud Pre owner, a Pixi for my Bride-to-Be, & I bought her a HP G72-253NR Notebook this past Summer, partially because of HP's Palm acquisition. I utilize HP printers at home & at work. I even use my own tagline: "Palm Pre, Productivity in Your's..." on my Pre emails. I've contemplated buying HP stock, in anticipation of the Pre3, Veer, & TouchPad release. I was convinced of its success, but now I am not so sure...

The amount of customer time, energy, money, & creativity involved in keeping WebOS alive thus far, has been simply amazing. We still proudly held onto our Pre's and Pixi's, hoping for the long-promised "New" phone, ...even as our "Old Palm Legacy" phones quite literally fall apart in our hands. Many devotees have even resorted to buying used Pre's and Pixi's in serviceable shape, just to bide their time. We've waited far too long & held onto our phones because of YOUR promises for a "soon-to-be" WebOS 2.0 & "Flash" OTA to "Bridge the new WebOS Phone-Gap". How long can many of us wait for our carriers to get the new Pre3 or Veer? (if at all?) (PS The WebOS 2.0 upgrade-promise is still even posted on your Palm Canada site, asking for the serial number.)

So now we have no bridge, a bunch of broken promises, dying phones, and promised new-products with an unknown release date on unknown carriers and the entire WebOS World is aflame with anger, check ANY WebOS blogosphere.

Please try to rectify this immediately or you will surely watch your $1.2 Billion Dollar purchase go right down the toilet. Many Palm faithful do not wish for bad upon HP, we truly LOVE WebOS and had very high hopes for HP-Palm's success. We would love nothing more than to see HP WebOS reach its potential being.

Longtime Palm Product owner/devotee
Brother Al
------------------------------------------------------

I got a call the other night from an area code-number I didn't recognize... Let it go to voicemail & listened to it later on... I was very impressed that HP took the time to respond by phone to my email letter of concern. Not only that, but he pronounced my last name 100% correctly... And with the 100% correct French pronunciation even. NEVER has a business-caller ever done that.
Again, NO! It wasn't from a call center person reading from some scripted reply sheet. The guy sounded fairly genuine, hint of a Texas-like accent, & there was ZERO background noise. He was well spoken & by his tone & inflection, seemed as though he was at the least, a mid-level manager and genuinely apologetic. I have also NEVER received a call from any company like this one, wished I'd answered it. I tried to call it but it goes straight to an HP phone system prompt directory... The unfortunate thing though is that he did not leave his name, so I cannot Thank or give him credit.
Here is a transcription of the call, word for word. At face value without the inflection or tone, it loses much...

"Hi, this message is for Al ...(100% correctly pronounces my last name)..., and we received your email at HP regarding OS2 updates.. or the lack thereof And we do apologize for the situation.. but we did want to contact and apologize for the situation and thank you for your feedback... And we will certainly pass these comments along to our engineering department... Um, I don't know what they are working on or if there will be anything forthcoming or announced so I will also recommend to please monitor our website for any future updates, and if the situation were to change.. But again, we do apologize for the.. For the problems and for how this rolled out... But.. uh, we do appreciate your feedback so thank you for the feedback and have yourself a great day... (sound of slight hangup fumble)."

Quite a genuine & apologetic person to person call...

[NickVTPre]

Last week i sent a thoughtful and articulate (i think) message to the HP Executive team (see post 1181 for the link).

Today i received a call from Palm Corporate Customer Relations. The person who i talked to didn't have any specifics about what the solution would be, or when. The two paths that person mentioned were a webOS Doctor patch, or a hardware upgrade discount, or credit, of some kind.The person said that it really depends on what my carrier decides do do.

I'm on Verizon so I emailed several of Verizon Wireless's top brass. I suggest anyone on Verizon do the same by clicking here. If you click on the individual there is a "contact so-and-so" link on the bottom of their profile.

I would suggest emailing the CEO, Chief Tech Officer, the National Customer Service VP, and the regional customer service VP for your area.

If nothing else at least they are aware of the webOS users out there that are unhappy. This, i think, will make them more likely to do something generous to keep our business.

[bluenote]

up to what the "carrier decides to do."

wow, HP passes the buck.