[DirkGently]

I joined the webOS universe a few days ago and i believe, that there is a really good chance for webOS to find a really big market share for webOS devices.

As i was looking for a new phone (a smartphone) there are just 4 big player:

Andorid
Apple
Windows Mobil/Phone
Blackberry

I have been researching which phone to choose for about 4 weeks. I did not choosed the best hardware, more importantly was the operating system.
WebOS and Palm are unknown to many customers and they would never think of it, if they would have to buy a new phone.

How can webOS reach more market shares again? It is very easy. They just have to try to sell themself as the professional OS.

Windows Mobile was used many year as the tool for professionals and his biggest competitor was RIMs Bb. With Phone7 Windows chosed to fight against Android and Apple. So for a buisness device there is only the Blackberry.

When webOS and HP would build more buisness tools in there operating system (excel word editors) and would try to support all manyfunctions of windows mobile (which they currently in many aspects), they could steal market share of windows mobile and blackberry.

[JED-WEB-OS]

Since RIM hasn’t had an OS upgrade in over 12 months, Apple iOS 4, Google Android 2.2, Palm WebOS 1.4, Windows Phone 7 have taken the lead in the Smartphone OS wars. With webOS 2 on the horizon, Palm and HP will be firing another volley the OS battle and as each company fires a shot, you can expect its competitors to respond in force.

The distinction between the business and consumer market in Smartphones is graying in the fog of war because every OS is becoming so feature rich that any one of them will be appealing to both market factions. I think webOS will never take the lead in the Smartphone wars but has a good chance to overtake RIM and Windows Phone 7.

Palm and HP need to stay active in developing new hardware (smartphones and other devices), applications (business, PDA and consumer) and webOS updates. If Palm and HP put forth a strong effort to shore up its development, manufacturing and marketing capabilities they may not win the war but are destine to win their fare share of battles and have a brighter future.

[schizzle1352]

i want to support PalmOS as much as anyone else here, but at some point enough will be enough. I have no desire to be an iOS lemming, but want major app support. That leaves me with RIM and Android.

Android makes a pretty strong case for the casual user, and its all through word of mouth and effective advertising.

My Pre is due for an upgrade in March, so the way i see it, someone at HP needs to open the marketing wallet and the development community junket slush fund wallet, spend blindly, and make PalmOS a desirable toy once again, or i will have to bid it adieu.

[dj ozone]

palms marketing was really really bad...

[hparsons]

...Also, we are beyond the time when your company assigns you a phone and requires that you carry it around without any feedback. Think of how may IT departments are being pushed to adopt iPhones and iPads.

The entire Blackberry market share story over the past few years goes against the idea that the professional smartphone device has any growth potential....

I couldn't disagree with the above statement more, and your paragraph immediately before that highlights why I disagree.

The professional market is virtually wide open for a device that meets the expectations of the IT departments at the same time it meets the demands and desires of the end users. The BB isn't that device. Neither is the iPhone, Android, WP7, or the Pre (in any of their current
configurations), but the market still exists... and is waiting.

[hparsons]

i want to support PalmOS as much as anyone else here, but at some point enough will be enough. I have no desire to be an iOS lemming, but want major app support. That leaves me with RIM and Android.

Android makes a pretty strong case for the casual user, and its all through word of mouth and effective advertising.

My Pre is due for an upgrade in March, so the way i see it, someone at HP needs to open the marketing wallet and the development community junket slush fund wallet, spend blindly, and make PalmOS a desirable toy once again, or i will have to bid it adieu.

Small correction - WebOS, not PalmOS. 2 different animals.

[HelloNNNewman]

...Also, we are beyond the time when your company assigns you a phone and requires that you carry it around without any feedback. Think of how may IT departments are being pushed to adopt iPhones and iPads...

Whoa, what? I'm not sure what industry you are in, or what exposure you have to multiple corporate IT departments, but our company works with ~40 different IT centers currently and your statement is completely at odds with our experience. One surprising item I've found is that 99% of the companies we work with treat the iPad with a "if you want it, get it yourself because there is no way we will officially support it internally" mentality.

Our company is a very large engineering firm supporting multiple organizations and companies (private and government) throughout 3 states (plus my division) and not only does our company (and our partners) assign and require phones to be carried, but don't look for feedback on them as the IT guys are solely responsible for implementation, integration, and security of the networks. They will use BB, Android, webOS, and Win mobile (yet) devices, but they refuse to allow iPhone and iPad access to the networks. For tablet and netbook computers, all these networks are staying with enterprise devices (MS) - and may look into Android, but not for a year or two. I'm sure there are companies that bring in iPads, but it's certainly far from being a 'standard' for companies to adopt them.

[Cantaffordit]

Whoa, what? I'm not sure what industry you are in, or what exposure you have to multiple corporate IT departments, but our company works with ~40 different IT centers currently and your statement is completely at odds with our experience. One surprising item I've found is that 99% of the companies we work with treat the iPad with a "if you want it, get it yourself because there is no way we will officially support it internally" mentality.

Our company is a very large engineering firm supporting multiple organizations and companies (private and government) throughout 3 states (plus my division) and not only does our company (and our partners) assign and require phones to be carried, but don't look for feedback on them as the IT guys are solely responsible for implementation, integration, and security of the networks. They will use BB, Android, webOS, and Win mobile (yet) devices, but they refuse to allow iPhone and iPad access to the networks. For tablet and netbook computers, all these networks are staying with enterprise devices (MS) - and may look into Android, but not for a year or two. I'm sure there are companies that bring in iPads, but it's certainly far from being a 'standard' for companies to adopt them.

I agree that most companies try to lock down technology and not worry about user preference. However, most end-user technology finds its entry point through user demand. Think about desktop computers, laptops, email, etc. That stuff was sneaking in while "IT" focused on mainframes. Certainly it is not the same for every company, but a large part of the success seen by iPhone and iPad is because executives get one and bring it to work. If the president of your company says he wants you to support his new iPhone... I'm pretty sure that will happen and others will line up behind him asking for the same support.

It is also becoming a strategy for cost containment through virtualization. Users can use whatever they want and just deliver corporate access through virtual desktops.

Here is an example of what I am talking about. Keep in mind these guys have much to gain since they happen to sell the technology that makes this possible... but I've seen it work. It's the fastest growing segment of virtualization technology.

A Look at Bring Your Own Devices in the Enterprise » ocb - Citrix Community

[mikeisnowonfire]

Well with I believe that HP webOS will be geared more towards business as we push forwards. I just hope they don't forget about everyone else who helped get them here (all the people who bought into HP webOS).

[japomani]

As far as I'm concerned, geared for business is geared for me. Give me productivity apps, you can keep the games and most of the media applications. A move to enterprise is a move in the right direction as far as I am concerned.

What kind of negative repercussions could it have? That is a sincere question.

[hparsons]

I agree that most companies try to lock down technology and not worry about user preference. However, most end-user technology finds its entry point through user demand. Think about desktop computers, laptops, email, etc. That stuff was sneaking in while "IT" focused on mainframes. Certainly it is not the same for every company, but a large part of the success seen by iPhone and iPad is because executives get one and bring it to work. If the president of your company says he wants you to support his new iPhone... I'm pretty sure that will happen and others will line up behind him asking for the same support.
...

I think you're both right, to a degree. Face it, if userbase drove IT, the Apple strategy of giving technology to students and counting on them to demand it the workplace would have worked. It didn't, most of us are still using PCs except in very small niche categories.

That won't change as long as Apple demands on calling the shots for their devices. IT departments are going to want to control the devices on their networks.

HP/Palm, are you paying attention to that one? RIM's success can (largely) be summed up in that paragraph.

Oh, and Citrix as been calling for the game to be changed for years with virtualization (to various degrees). It's a great technology, and I began replacing real servers with virtual a long time ago; but they really haven't convinced the majority of businesses - yet.

[JLegacy]

HP and webOS don't look like they're going away anytime soon.

The Palm brand and webOS smartphones will be disappearing if they don't change a lot of things. Marketing is important, there doesn't just need to be more apps, quality apps are a must (Netflix, Kindle, etc), webOS needs more updates to catch up to rival OSes, and there needs to be a push with competitive hardware.

webOS on the Pre may be awesome to a niche market, but if Palm wants to survive they need to go with more formfactors. "Slab" appeals to more people than "pebble."

[hparsons]

HP and webOS don't look like they're going away anytime soon.

The Palm brand and webOS smartphones will be disappearing if they don't change a lot of things. Marketing is important, there doesn't just need to be more apps, quality apps are a must (Netflix, Kindle, etc), webOS needs more updates to catch up to rival OSes, and there needs to be a push with competitive hardware.

webOS on the Pre may be awesome to a niche market, but if Palm wants to survive they need to go with more formfactors. "Slab" appeals to more people than "pebble."

I honestly believe that a quality tablet will help the phone sales, and that improved phone sales will help the tablet - if both are implemented well.

The newer phones, including the low end models, will have to be better quality than the original Pre. Obviously, the tablet computers will have to be a high-quality device at every end of the price spectrum. If HPalm hits those, I believe they'll be off to the races.

[hparsons]

The notion that tablet sales will improve phone sales is pretty absurd. That would require a significant number of consumers that haven't bothered to buy a smartphone yet but somehow have decided to take the plunge into the tablet computing world. Then, after purchasing the tablet, they get the bright idea to buy a smartphone. Ridiculous.

I guess there might be some current smartphone users who are overwhelmed by how great webOS is but that has been proven to not happen much at all. And, they would have to purposefully cross platforms to try a webOS smartphone over iOS, Android, RIM, or Windows Phone.

The idea that they would have to have not yet bothered to buy a smartphone is what's absurd.

How about they have a smartphone, decide to get a tablet, and decide they like the OS. Then they discover that the tablet and the phone compliment each other, and work together.

I suspect your desire for "all bad Palm/HP" is blinding you to some of the possibilities.

[Cantaffordit]

The notion that tablet sales will improve phone sales is pretty absurd. That would require a significant number of consumers that haven't bothered to buy a smartphone yet but somehow have decided to take the plunge into the tablet computing world. Then, after purchasing the tablet, they get the bright idea to buy a smartphone. Ridiculous.
.

I think Apple has proven exactly that. People bought iPods and then wanted a Mac. People bought iPods and then wanted an iPhone....

I know MANY people that have an iPad but not a smartphone. In some cases they won't need a smartphone because the iPad fits the need. But in most cases... they are now planning to get an iPhone.

And most iPhone users would only consider one tablet device... iPad.

I dont know of Android or webOS can pull off that sort of cross selling powerplay, but Apple sure did it, over and over and over.

[Cantaffordit]

iPad to iPhone. Check

Laptop to netbook. Check.

it happens.

[hparsons]

I think Apple has proven exactly that. People bought iPods and then wanted a Mac. People bought iPods and then wanted an iPhone...

Now you're just being absurd.

/sarcasm

[hparsons]

Consumers have shown a willingness to go from a smaller screen device to a larger one (i.e. iPod -> iPhone -> iPad) with a similar OS but not from a larger one to a smaller one (PC OS -> smartphone OS or PC -> tablet OS).

The difference is that you are adding or expanding features going from small to large which makes things easy. However you are subtracting or shrinking features when you go from large to small which makes things more frustrating. When you buy an iPad, you also get iPhone apps and an iPod. When you buy a Tablet PC or windows smartphone, you get something small trying to be a PC but is inevitably much less.

You're overlooking the fact that some consumers are smart enough to realize that they have to give up something when they move "larger to smaller", but are still willing to make that move.

I use my Palm Pre for a lot of things that I used to do on my laptop, which has a 17" screen. I have that same laptp connected to a docking station that is attached to much higher resolution 21" screen. I understand when I undock, I loose some real estate. I understand that when I'm in the other room and decide to use my Pre instead of the laptop, I lose some functionality. Most other folks are smart enough to understand that as well.

As a matter of fact, I just mentioned to my wife that instead of replacing the laptop (I usually give them to one of the kids after 3 years and get a new one), I may be looking at a tablet this year, and keeping the laptop for when I need a bigger system.

[Reeves]

Consumers have shown a willingness to go from a smaller screen device to a larger one (i.e. iPod -> iPhone -> iPad) with a similar OS but not from a larger one to a smaller one (PC OS -> smartphone OS or PC -> tablet OS).

The difference is that you are adding or expanding features going from small to large which makes things easy. However you are subtracting or shrinking features when you go from large to small which makes things more frustrating. When you buy an iPad, you also get iPhone apps and an iPod. When you buy a Tablet PC or windows smartphone, you get something small trying to be a PC but is inevitably much less.

I would also say the success of the iPad has gone far beyond the leverage of the iPhone and iOS. Apple built a different value proposition for iPad with it being not really tied to a carrier or even a long-term contract, it having a lot of apps made specifically for that form factor (instead of "scaled" apps), and it having an outright price that no one (aside from perhaps the Nook color) can significantly undercut as of yet.

The way it "works with" an iPhone or iTunes probably ranks relatively low on the list of reasons why the average Joe buys an iPad. So HP Palm is going to have to provide a unique value proposition to the PalmPad beyond it works with the phones or printers.

[Cantaffordit]

don't forget that apps purchase on either device are licensed to run on both... That's huge.