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  1. haasbat's Avatar
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    I'm going to start by apologizing - I've tried searching the forum for this, but there is no easy way to sort through the data for exactly what I'm investigating. I've only found one true explanation, but many more criticisms.

    I had a Palm OS device. I want a webOS device.

    But I keep seeing new comments saying, "Needs better/improved PIM."
    Well, I thought I knew what PIM was, but evidently I don't.

    What else is needed if webOS has contacts, calendar, memos, tasks, and calculator?? Maybe the better question is: what specifically needs to be improved? Are the complaints that it's not as comprehensive as Blackberry? Does it not integrate between contacts and calendar well enough? I guess, simply, what was better about PalmOS PIM that everyone misses so much? "Palm has done PIM for years... [complaint]."

    I apologize to you hard-core webOS folks who are annoyed with my request.
  2. #2  
    I think that people just expected Palm to do it right and that did not happen. And some of the comparisons are also with enhancements like Datebook6. A couple of simple examples are lack of search your calendar, limited reminder and repeat options and no birthday handling.
  3. #3  
    There are sometimes problems with WebOS Synergy and it can also be difficult to import everything from your Palm OS phone to WebOS.
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  4. ay
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    A big complaint raised is also that people want to be able to send event invitations from their calendar events, but can't. I personally get around this by using the web browser on my Pre to log in to my Google Apps calendar, and then send the invitations from there.
  5. #5  
    For me the biggest issue is sync simplicity.

    I used Palm Desktop & home & worked & kep them synced w/my Treo. PD stayed up on my work PC all day & I'd sync late in the day if I made any changes. I rarely used my home desktop app, but would treat it as a back up & at least weekly sync to it.

    Whether I had intenet or data access, I could quickly access any of my contacts, calendar or notes or do a search and quickly find something if I wasn't sure if I'd listed it in contacts or memo.

    I also used 3rd party apps, but my core data was captured in the default Palm apps deliberately to keep it accessible.

    With WebOS being new & the cloud focus you have to set up a laid sync work flow to sync info into and out of the device, depending on what apps you use. Outlook is still useable, but not an option for me (I'm not investing it for a home copy & the $40 sync software when the future is so uncertain). Plus, I don't want to sync to my work Outlook and merge my personal info.

    As one personstated on another thread: we want to be able to access everything in the basic PIM (at a minimum) that we can access on the device.

    Ideally, the ability to access & edit (offline, too) our Palm backup could be the solution.

    In my years w/Sprint I have come to expect no service if I go more than 20 minutes away from an interstate. I don't get a signal @ my brother's place in NH or at a friend's place in NM. At work we periodically get network outtages & I can't sync wirelessly to my work PC anyway.

    Access to the cloud is too unreliable to have my basic PIM that I need access in an emergency (which is stored in the same place as the random notes I saved 'in case I need this later'. This wasn't a problem in Palm Desktop. It is now.

    It all comes down to how you access & use your info. I like PC access for quicker/more efficient data entry. But it needs to be easy to keep everything in sync & be available offline, all the time.

    My take on the PIM issue.

    (had more detailed reply but kept getting the finger from Precentral re:login. Came home & tried again but in a rush now).
  6. #6  
    The real answer comes from the fact that the smartphones of today seem to be changing the paradigm that was the original PalmOS that we all grew up with. If you think back, the PalmOS was never intended to be a primary device. The PIM was designed to be on your desktop/laptop. the PalmOS was a satellite device intended to give you quick access to the information. That's why it didn't even have a keyboard.

    Today's smartphone is trying to be the primary device. As designed, with Synergy, it really is taking information from a number of sources and combining them into one place. But it refuses to share this information with other devices (for security/data protection reasons).

    So our habits must change. Full synchronization is no longer possible because the data on the WebOS device that was received from gmail or other sources cannot be shared with a PIM on your laptop (i.e. Agendus or Palm Desktop).

    As a standalone, primary device, the WebOS device is a good PIM. It does lack a few things, which I'll outline below. It will meet your needs but you must change your line of thinking. Forget synchronization with a single point. The WebOS synchronizes itself behind the scenes with all sources and you don't even have to intervene. Enter a contact or calendar entry on your WebOS device, and very soon (depending on your settings for the account you attached it to) it appears on the "other side" without you even taking action.

    What is really lacking is not on the WebOS side but on the cloud side. The reason we can't effectively sync memos and undated tasks, is due to the lacking on the cloud side, not the Pre. Google, for example doesn't have an API to allow syncing with undated tasks. Exchange Activesync will synchronize tasks, but not notes. Other "band-aid" solutions have cropped up (Evernote, RememberTheMilk, etc.) but none really provide the seamless approach we all want. And that is because there is something else missing.

    And that is no similar Synergy repository on the desktop side. A product like Agendus needs to be morphed into a desktop Synergy repository that does for your desktop/laptop exactly what WebOS does for your Pre/Pixi. Specifically, synchronizing multiple sources into one common repository.

    So basically, the problem with the "inadequacy" of PIM on WebOS is not actually with WebOS. WebOS is in fact ahead of the game. The problem is the cloud and the desktop software need to catch up. And THAT is really the bottom line.

    Now as promised here are a couple inadequacies I do see with WebOS as a PIM that are not related to inadequacies on the "other side":

    1. Lack of any type of cross referencing. PalmOS had this too, but Agendus addressed this by adding the ability to link contacts, memos, tasks and calendar entries.

    2. Search limitations. Universal search is great, but it doesn't drill down. With PalmOS, I was able to enter certain tags in notes and fields within contacts or calendars and the search feature would find them. Not there in WebOS (or at least I havent found it). I tried entering such tags and searching on them. They were not found.

    3. Custom fields. Contacts in PalmOS had custom fields. They don't exist in WebOS. It was explained to me that when WebOS was designed, there were no custom fields in Google Contacts. And this might be why WebOS lacks them. But they are there now, so WebOS should add them as well.
    Handspring Visor>Sony 710c>Sony NX60>Sony NX80>Treo 700p>Palm Pre Plus>Went over to the dark side with phone->Samsung Droid Charge
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  7. #7  
    I appreciate the info on the technical reasons why things are where they are. Fascinating how much works together (or isn't quite able to yet) to make the phone bring so much to us and allow us to do so much from it. When I have reverted back to my Treo while waiting for replacement Pres (twice) I was struck by how quick it was for the Treo to find info when I needed it, but also how intuitive the Pre is to use. I look forward to the new features and new hardware HP/Palm and the dedicated devs are bringing us.

    Agreed, cross referencing is a nice feature. I used Datebook5 and/or a tool that allowed linking between appointments/contacts.

    Custom fields appear to be a mixed blessing when exporting / importing into alternate contact managers. Or maybe the ability to change contact by contact is the problem (no standard as to order of entries) as opposed to being able to create custom fields. Seems like I had problems when I first moved my contacts over with some labels being a bit scrambled (some contacts had home phone as primary, others had mobile).

    Good news for those still looking for a better memo work around! There's a new app for the online note service Simplenote that just popped up in Preware (and eventually in the app catalog) that may fill some of our need we still had for Palm Desktop:
    Go to app thread for info on a free desktop app that syncs with your online account. This may be a good short or long term solution, especially since is available to other mobile platforms.

    Biggest thing I am missing now from a PIM perspective is a universal search like the Treo/Palm Desktop had that will search across contacts/memos/calendar/task apps so you can find keywords regardless of where you parked the info (assuming the info is in a local text file that can be searched). Maybe if a new form of Desktop/Web synced all in one package comes along we can get that back on the desktop, but I'd settle for having it on the Pre for local (offline) files.
    Last edited by retirecom; 08/11/2010 at 10:09 AM. Reason: To finish thought.
  8. haasbat's Avatar
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    I appreciate all of your responses regarding PIM.

    I think the light-bulb for me, is that I often forget that many other people download their email and keep contacts on their machine, not in the cloud. As a Gmail user, I kept thinking about this through that paradigm - No need to sync with a computer, because all of my contacts and email are already in the cloud.

    But the note about Tasks not synching and not a full universal search are appreciated. The custom fields in contacts is one thing that allured me to Blackberry, but hopefully, as pointed out, now that Gmail has custom fields, WebOS will too, which will make it much more versatile. I can't wait to be able to call a Google Voice number from a WebOS device with GV integrated.

    I've also just assumed there was some sort of off-line desktop solution to WebOS that only owners of devices were aware of. It would be nice if there was a WebOS database file with all your cloud info in it, that would update onto your computer, like HotSync, and then had the ability to automatically update that into an off-line Outlook, or Thunderbird, or whatever else, as a simple, comma separated file. Hmm, if you lose service on your WebOS device, do you instantly lose the cloud too, or is your PIM flashed into the memory at least as it is statically, so you can keep adding to it, and removing from it, even though you're not updating the cloud? If it doesn't, then that might help save battery life (not pushing complete updates all the time, only changes), but a mirror of that is all it would need on a desktop application. Hell, maybe we just need a WebOS interface for desktop? It could update itself, run your calendar in a larger format, send emails and all that. It could replace logging into Gmail if robust enough.

    Thanks again for all your comments.
  9. #9  
    I think the OP is asking a great question. The PIM does exactly what I need, but other's have more advanced requirements. I use my PIM in a more tradition sense in that I put most of the stuff in Outlook and use my PIM to give me portable access when I'm not in front of my PC. I'm mostly happy with the PIM.

    There are a few things I wish it did, but they aren't things I could do in PalmOS either.

    In terms of desktop Sync, I'm not happy that I had to buy a 3rd party sync tool, but I have to admit it's a great product once you eat the cost. I've used CompanionLink and Pocket Mirror. Pocket Mirror works over wifi to make it a completely wireless solution.

    CompanionLink will sync to the Palm Desktop that came with your Treo, so that's a good choice if you like using Palm's desktop PIM. Even if everything is in the "cloud" it always makes sense to have a back-up, and desktop sync is great for that, too. How many times have we all had to do a hard reset on our Centro or Treo... one push of the hotsync button and everything was back on the phone like magic!

    Do you have a concise list of your requirements or how you use your PIM? I've been using Palm stuff since day one, and I've never had better contact/calendar management than Palm.

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