[Preemptive]

There have been some recent stories of interest I thought I would post here. None of this is directly relevant to webOS, but are possibilities for future hardware.

At this time, future webOS / LuneOS hardware would need to have an unlockable bootloader and be capable of running some form of Android - the availability of a Cyanogenmod port the most likely indicator, but anything that could run embedded Linux would probably be in the running.

For the 'genuine' webOS experience, many feel that the gesture area and hardware keyboard is important. LuneOS currently offers a virtual gesture area, but keyboards are harder to find. Future hardware might come in the form of an unusual Android handset, but could also be 'created' using modular or open hardware.

The most notable modular project closed this week:
Project Ara-Google's modular smartphone-is dead | Ars Technica UK
Other projects with possibilities are LG's G5 and the Motorola MotoZ. There are a few 'maker' type projects also.
Then there is this: https://nexpaq.com/ A slightly different approach to modularity - a configurable case add on. No sign of a keyboard...
Update: http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/09...modular-phone/

Primary port targets for LuneOS are the Nexus line from Google and it's partners. They have decent specifications, open boot loaders & are relatively affordable. It seems changes are afoot here also:
Google's "Nexus" phones will be branded "Pixel", launch on October -report | Ars Technica UK
It remains to be seen if this change will affect any other aspects of the Nexus offering.

[Herrie]

There have been some recent stories of interest I thought I would post here. None of this is directly relevant to webOS, but are possibilities for future hardware.

At this time, future webOS / LuneOS hardware would need to have an unlockable bootloader and be capable of running some form of Android - the availability of a Cyanogenmod port the most likely indicator, but anything that could run embedded Linux would probably be in the running.

For the 'genuine' webOS experience, many feel that the gesture area and hardware keyboard is important. LuneOS currently offers a virtual gesture area, but keyboards are harder to find. Future hardware might come in the form of an unusual Android handset, but could also be 'created' using modular or open hardware.

The most notable modular project closed this week:
Project Ara-Google's modular smartphone-is dead | Ars Technica UK
Other projects with possibilities are LG's G5 and the Motorola MotoZ. There are a few 'maker type projects also.
Then there is this: https://nexpaq.com/ A slightly different approach to modularity - a configurable case add on. No sign of a keyboard...
Update: http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/09...modular-phone/

Primary port targets for LuneOS are the Nexus line from Google and it's partners. They have decent specifications, open boot loaders & are relatively affordable. It seems changes are afoot here also:
Google's "Nexus" phones will be branded "Pixel", launch on October -report | Ars Technica UK
It remains to be seen if this change will affect any other aspects of the Nexus offering.

We don't need Android hardware or Cyanogen, just the problem is that the chipset and hardware manufacturers only offer binary blob drivers for Android in general so we're forced to use a very stripped down Android version & libhybris in order to be able to use the device for our needs. If there's a device with a proper linux kernel & drivers (like the Raspberry Pi etc) it removes quite some complexity and layers from a port :-)


-- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities

[RfromR]

How about webOS/LuneOS on the upcoming Puzzlephone? I think they're on the right modularity track, and it looks great too.
PuzzlePhone
Some mention of Sailfish OS on their website here: http://www.puzzlephone.com/blog-read...s-integration/

[Herrie]

How about webOS/LuneOS on the upcoming Puzzlephone? I think they're on the right modularity track, and it looks great too.
PuzzlePhone
Some mention of Sailfish OS on their website here: http://www.puzzlephone.com/blog-read...s-integration/

That's quite likely an option :-) Sailfish OS, Ubuntu Touch & LuneOS share a lot internals :-) They are all working on Android based build with ibhybris, with QT, oFono etc :-)

-- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities

[Preemptive]

We don't need Android hardware or Cyanogen, just the problem is that the chipset and hardware manufacturers only offer binary blob drivers for Android in general so we're forced to use a very stripped down Android version & libhybris in order to be able to use the device for our needs. If there's a device with a proper linux kernel & drivers (like the Raspberry Pi etc) it removes quite some complexity and layers from a port :-)

Well... yes, but I mentioned that (I didn't really, but I meant 'Linux device with open drivers') and as you also state, currently, usable & available phone devices are pretty much all Android.

Puzzle phone looks good, but it seems they are having problems. Some are suggesting they team up with another company and it seems to me that Fairphone (another possible LuneOS candidate) could work - FP could handle ethical sourcing & marketing, Puzzlephone could bring a high spec, design and manufacturing. Of course, both these phones are again Android, but if there is an interest in open hardware, other options become possible.

There remains an option of building a webOS phone from scratch. Although I think this is becoming more possible, I don't think it's viable yet. I think Fairphone started with a run of 10,000. It was an average phone sold on ethics & repair-ability with the 'known quantity' of Android. I'm doubtful about selling 1/10 of that number (maybe the webOS router can sell 2500 to webOS fans past & present because there's no such thing as 'router apps')

The options are:

1. To build something good, but VERY expensive due to the low number.
2. Something like a 'maker-kit' which would either be bulky/ugly or underpowered.
3. Make something quality that's open enough to run anything, but happens to make a good webOS phone.

Option 1 just won't happen - too much of a risk. Option 2 could happen in the future if someone develops a fairly slick kit with decent specs and a nice case, but such a thing begins to edge into the project Ara territory. Option 3 would seem possible and not so far from the Fairphone / Puzzlephone approach. A keyboard, gesture / capacitance button area. This could be sold as an Android / Sailfish / Ubuntu / LuneOS phone (whatever you want) in sufficient numbers to hit a reasonable price point without compromising H/W spec.

Aside from building a device, there is the Blackberry option of rebadging a suitable existing device, but that likely brings back the 'generic slab' problem - what is out there with decent specs, a KB & gesture area?

One other idea is to 'repackage' existing internals into a 'webOS form', but I'm doubtful that 'slab-guts' will support a KB/GA.

[mazzinia]

"One other idea is to 'repackage' existing internals into a 'webOS form', but I'm doubtful that 'slab-guts' will support a KB/GA."

technically feasible through the microusb plug, I think. Not elegant or the best for efficiency, but feasible.

Btw, from a tablet perspective, the lenovo yoga book would be the best candidate for a webos tablet

[Preemptive]

technically feasible through the microusb plug, I think. Not elegant or the best for efficiency, but feasible.

I suppose a pass-through or hub approach. I considered Bluetooth, but I don't like the idea...

Btw, from a tablet perspective, the lenovo yoga book would be the best candidate for a webos tablet

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/yoga/700-series/

Yes, I suppose these convertible things bring a keyboard to the tablet format. I assume these are essentially PCs and can have Win10 replaced.

[mazzinia]

yes, but I was referencing the new

yoga book

.. it's a different beast. It runs android , or win10. It's atom based... and has a cover with a synaptic screen/digitizer.
Check youtube for it, it's quite elegant... and it's the first time the old IBM Thinkpad Transnote makes its comeback.

The transnote was the most original laptop ever made, I think

[anon(8063781)]

I had a Bluetooth slider keyboard case for an iPhone years ago. It worked properly and only required charging once every two weeks. It would have been great if the keyboard had actually been nice to type on, but it was awful.

Maybe someone could do a better job of it. It's not the worst solution, especially since phones are getting so thin these days.

[jlamb0]

I had a Bluetooth slider keyboard case for an iPhone years ago. It worked properly and only required charging once every two weeks. It would have been great if the keyboard had actually been nice to type on, but it was awful.

Maybe someone could do a better job of it. It's not the worst solution, especially since phones are getting so thin these days.

I had one of these too! I thought it was really neat, and I loved using it for the geek factor if for nothing else. :-)

Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk

[TJs11thPre]

fyi: samsung is making a keyboard attachment for their s6 or s7, not sure which or if it fits both. its a case with a modular keyboard that's detachable. interesting option, but that phone is huge.

[Preemptive]

Couple of things: I saw Puzzlephone won some award
AMD, PuzzlePhone Win Green Electronic Council's 2016 Catalyst Awards | Business Wire

EVleaks is suggesting a Huawei 7" tablet with 4GB ram for Google (the next Nexus 7?)
https://twitter.com/evleaks/status/772894822193623040

[plantman60]

Hi all, inspiring thread.

If you need an android phone with a keyboard that's high spec, maybe the Blackberry Priv?
Or, the phone I'm using now, the Blackberry Q10, runs Blackberry OS 10 and runs many Android apps, and is very much like my Pre 2 in many ways. The OS 10 is very gesture-based, by the way.

[Preemptive]

Oh, I assumed a qwerty keyboard, but no. Very expensive too. Am I right in thinking this thing has two screens or does it twist?
Samsung's W2017 is a high-end flip phone with Snapdragon 820 and 4GB RAM | Android Central
Two screens, but just a numeric keyboard. An odd combination.

[ggendel]

Sheesh! Just when I was starting to accept it's dearth, you guys come in to give us a glimmer of hope.

[Preemptive]

An open keyboard slider, but in landscape format.
Neo900

Incidentally, I came across this from this article:
Tor phone is antidote to Google "hostility" over Android, says developer | Ars Technica

[Herrie]

An open keyboard slider, but in landscape format.
Neo900

Incidentally, I came across this from this article:
Tor phone is antidote to Google ?hostility? over Android, says developer | Ars Technica

The Neo900 is a nice concept. Hardware wise not too much off from how Palm built the Pre and Pre 2. The problem is really the TI OMAP SOC which is a TI DM3730 it seems which runs at 1Ghz. This is a 3rd generation TI OMAP chip, this really isn't anything good in current age.

[Misj']

The Neo900 is a nice concept. Hardware wise not too much off from how Palm built the Pre and Pre 2. The problem is really the TI OMAP SOC which is a TI DM3730 it seems which runs at 1Ghz. This is a 3rd generation TI OMAP chip, this really isn't anything good in current age.

How exactly would that affect it as a potential target for LuneOS? - Does it simply not match up 'in the current age' or would it likely be unusable?

[Grabber5.0]

How exactly would that affect it as a potential target for LuneOS? - Does it simply not match up 'in the current age' or would it likely be unusable?

A TI OMAP in the 1Ghz range seems like Pre2 territory. If so, it'd be unusable. Pre2 is listed as the 3630, so sounds like the same power level.

[Preemptive]

Hmmm...

Yes, it seems like a stretch. Maybe if/when LuneOS is optimised, but as far as I can tell, it's 3-4 operating systems stuck together, which I doubt makes it compact, though perhaps no worse than most modern operating systems which are all developments of earlier work rather than being built 'from the ground up'.

I took a look at the feasibility document. It was written in 2013. Even the N4 outstrips this spec.

That said, shoe-horning newer boards into existing casings is an interesting approach. Hardware specs are a moving target, so I suppose there is a chance that they could jump to a newer generation without too many difficulties. It might be worth keeping an eye on this.