[Goyena]

Hum.. I guess Derek is a troll and naysayer as well now?

http://www.webosnation.com/fast-good...ild-smartphone

Derek is a member of the community with an opinion, as are we all. He also has access to the front page of the most active webOS community site, meaning when he decides to speak loudly, he neither has to post in an obscure thread, NOR PUT IT IN ALL CAPS.

Concerning the troll issue, well, I have a few posts and donations to my name/profile, so you can be assured that I love webOS, but I'm pretty certain that webOS' non-success has ensured that we don't even have the honor of hosting trolls in our forum.

What's next, trolling Meego forums? Talk about doing it for the lulz...zzzZZzzzzz...

In any case, until we have something to throw our money at, there's not much different than Chris3illiams asking what you'd want in a future webOS device, and the webOS WishList articles series asking...what you'd want in a future webOS device (penned by Derek Kessler).

Looks strangely as if we all want the same thing.

Edit: It's also a slow news cycle as often in webOS land, so why not an op ed piece; Be my guest if you want to take it as factual and/or gospel. Just note that his previous article was on webOS printers. Everybody who gives two fracks, please raise your hands....

...thought so.

[deCorvett]

Hum.. I guess Derek is a troll and naysayer as well now?

http://www.webosnation.com/fast-good...ild-smartphone

As I said before, It's doable by anyone.

All you need is the money, and not too much money. No matter what Derek says, you can buy completely finished products in asia to OEMs without issues. Depending quantity, you'll get price.

And about carriers' dealing, if you sell unlocked phones don't have to deal with them. You only need to get the corresponding certifications (FCC in U.S.A., CE symbol in Europe, and so on). That's as hard as making a compliant device, sending it to the certification entity and pay the taxes.

As someone said in the comments of that article, there is a company in Spain founded by two guys (a 19 year-old student, and the guy that found the financing) and with a total of 15 employees selling their own phones european-wide. And if you look at their products, you have:

GP1: 2009 model (discontinued)
Zero: 2011's first price model. They sell it at the anti-competitive price of 165 € (including V.A.T) for all the E.U. It's a first price model, but at that starting price, you can't negate that there is a enormous room for improvement in hardware.

Now tell me it's impossible.

[marcedhk]

Hum.. I guess Derek is a troll and naysayer as well now?

http://www.webosnation.com/fast-good...ild-smartphone

Well, I certainly wouldn't say Derek is a naysayer. I think Derek has written a great article, and everyone who is dreaming of a community webOS device would do well to read, re-read and consider it carefully.

The difference between what Derek has done and what the naysayers typically do is that he has presented well reasoned arguments that support his premise, and is backing them up with facts. He clearly presents the obstacles that are involved in designing, developing and mass marketing a smartphone, and each time someone might say "I think I can get around that one", he hits them with the next obstacle that will be staring them in the face.

Will this kill the dream of a community made device? I doubt it - dreamers will always dream - and some dreamers will dream BIG. But hopefully what it will do is crystallize things enough for everyone so that future discussions on the topic won't be pie in the sky talk, but down to earth and realistic, so that even guys like you will be able to stop tearing their hair out in frustration, and actually have an enjoyable discussion that benefits everyone that takes part in it.

[Goyena]

Derek ...has presented well reasoned arguments that support his premise, and is backing them up with facts.

Derek's premise is limited: that there is now only a sole business model for making a smartphone. This is what others are refuting.

Anyway, if you adhere 100% to Derek's arguments - that only a huge corporation with big pockets can make a smartphone, start counting your days - the big players are limited, and many have already said "no way". Save your naysaying and start a thread called "Let's go a-courting. How to make the big guys change their minds." With WP7 gaining ground In a post-Lumia world, good luck with that.

Who to believe in? Overworked college students in Canada? Strangely determined men in southern Oceanic continents where most webOS devices weren't even sold? Peculiar mode switching Finns? Some Chinese guy named "Chomper"? AAAHHHHHHGGGHHH!

C'mon, guys, this is webOS. Welcome to the jungle. We've been in much weirder places than some guys locked bedroom.

Getting back to the thread: did anyone mention 2 way bluetooth file sharing?

[marcedhk]

Anyway, if you adhere 100% to Derek's arguments - that only a huge corporation with big pockets can make a smartphone, start counting your days - the big players are limited, and many have already said "no way". Save your naysaying and start a thread called "Let's go a-courting. How to make the big guys change their minds." With WP7 gaining ground In a post-Lumia world, good luck with that.

Hi Govena,

I think you missed my point. What I'm saying is that Derek has put forward several arguments to support his premise that the community can't build a smartphone, and presented facts to back up his arguments. As such, any further discussion needs to take these arguments and facts into account - they can't be ignored. Anyone who still believes it can be done is going to have to address those issues and produce compelling arguments to support their premise, and also back them up with facts.

Let's not have people making wild speculations about what can be done, reading too much into unsubstantiated rumors, exaggerating their capabilities and progress, etc. Lets have a sensible discussion that examines the premise rationally and in a level headed fashion, and facilitates the exchange and refinement of ideas. That way, at the end of the day, whatever conclusions people leave with when the thread fizzles out and dies will be informed ones.

[Sylo]

When did HP release the source code for webOS 3.0.4?

[deCorvett]

There is nothing to refute here. If you think that a company that hires third parties to develop and manufacture devices is not a phone maker, then nobody is.

[Goyena]

*Sigh* So much for bringing this thread back on track. Guys, I think 3lvis has left the building. Yes, I'm partly at fault too.

How about you let us believers continue with our little discussion, and you skeptics write up a framework on "How to vet future smartphone vendors"? (=GTFO)

[BradE#WN]

If the naysayers are right, why bother with openwebos? Why bother with webOSnation? Ya'll drank Leo's koolaid, he didn't believe in webOS or HP so he quit almost before he got started. You don't succeed by quitting.

[cgk]

If the naysayers are right, why bother with openwebos? Why bother with webOSnation? Ya'll drank Leo's koolaid, he didn't believe in webOS or HP so he quit almost before he got started. You don't succeed by quitting.

Because it will be a fun hobbyist thing? There is no contradiction in my position that as it currently stands, WebOS will be a cool hobbyist thing but isn't currently likely to be a successful commercial entity again. It's always strike me as weird how people can't accept that you may like WebOS but at the same time holding a negative view on it's commercial potential.

Too many people read between the lines and think that if a rational analysis of the commercial potential of idea X is so form of broad judgement on the OS itself - the two are separate things (at least they are for me).

[tbc]

I'm so excited I stumbled onto this thread while searching for an answer re. emoticons! You go, Chris! -- Tim 1E4AF729D5CEFFD0

[BradE#WN]

The OP didn't ask for an analysis of his business plan, he asked for feedback on webOS features.

[Sylo]

*Sigh* So much for bringing this thread back on track. Guys, I think 3lvis has left the building. Yes, I'm partly at fault too.

How about you let us believers continue with our little discussion, and you skeptics write up a framework on "How to vet future smartphone vendors"? (=GTFO)

If the naysayers are right, why bother with openwebos? Why bother with webOSnation? Ya'll drank Leo's koolaid, he didn't believe in webOS or HP so he quit almost before he got started. You don't succeed by quitting.

Why is it, if people are skeptical about this being legit, we are classified as naysayers? And now we're being told to GTFO? I think everyone here wants a new webOS phone, and if this guy is serious, that would be awesome for the platform. There are just too many holes with this story for me to bite. webOS was never licensed, and we're being told that this team is putting 3.0.4 (tablet OS) onto a phone.

I see fraud all the time, and it usually happens when people are so desperate for good news (ever won a lottery from Zimbabwe?). Open webOS brings the possibility for hardware makers to adopt the platform. There's the cyanogenmod team, and then there will be the opensource webOS team. Android took a long time to become mainstream, but it happened. It could happen for us, too. HP will hopefully work on getting support from the hardware makers. The problem is, HP said they weren't entering the phone arena again. At least Google had a hand in the Nexus line.

There is nothing wrong with a little skepticism. In the meantime, we can all dream. Once webOS becomes open source, I would love to get it running on the Moto Razr Maxx. Serious battery, great screen; the only problem with it currently is the OS.

As far as added features go for hardware makers...I have the Pre 3, and it has everything I want, minus app support. I like having the ability to download the newest (or oldest for that matter) games, with the ability to play some casual games (like Words with Friends) cross platform. I suppose we need that Android Compatibility Layer for this to happen.

[minipot]

From what I see, there are 2 congeries those that are treating open-webos as a Linux - doesn't generally come on hardware just fun to port- or those who treat as a free windows opportunity open and ships on platforms.

forgive my terminology (didn't mean to insult linux users used to be one myself)

[Rockbeast]

I see fraud all the time, and it usually happens when people are so desperate for good news (ever won a lottery from Zimbabwe?).

Zimbabwe...he, he...are people still falling for that one? Some folks just never learn...

Now, I'm waiting for my lottery winnings from Nigeria...I'm tracking the package with my winning ticket now...using my handy shipment tracking app...it's currently held up in Diego Garcia, where the Autobots are... but I expect it to start moving any day now...any day...

As for this thread, well, I would love to see a device. Do I expect to from this 'situation'? Not really. But good luck to anyone who honestly is trying to make it happen.

Oh, and as for 'naysaying trolls'... how many health points do I lose going up against one with only a rock, a healing potion, and a thin leather shirt for armor?

[Sylo]

Now, I'm waiting for my lottery winnings from Nigeria...I'm tracking the package with my winning ticket now...using my handy shipment tracking app...it's currently held up in Diego Garcia, where the Autobots are... but I expect it to start moving any day now...any day...

Ha! I'm sure you just need to pay the extra taxes. That should get it through customs...

[millertime]

Because it will be a fun hobbyist thing? There is no contradiction in my position that as it currently stands, WebOS will be a cool hobbyist thing but isn't currently likely to be a successful commercial entity again. It's always strike me as weird how people can't accept that you may like WebOS but at the same time holding a negative view on it's commercial potential.

Too many people read between the lines and think that if a rational analysis of the commercial potential of idea X is so form of broad judgement on the OS itself - the two are separate things (at least they are for me).

I agree: we can all disagree about the commercial viability of WebOS at this point. What encourages me at this point isthat HP has enough hope that this will be a successful commercial venture that they are still putting enormous resources into open WebOS. HP may be what it used to be, but when a company the size of HP makes what is an admittedly smaller but still very large, ongoing investment in webos, then there is still a chance.
My other thought is this. I know some very smart people in the tech field connected with very good companies that believe that WebOS is the best mobile operating system except for bugs and performance. 3.05 did wonders for bugs in the Touchpad, and it is now more stable than my iPad 1. I kid you not. i suffer far more browser crashes with the ipad by far than the touchpad. I can see one of these very smart people connected to good companies. If open WebOS brings some of the speed changes that we have been hoping for, then those changes a put with the Krait processor (double the CPU power) , this webos has a chance.

My initial impression of this thread was wrong. Thankfully I didn't post what I originally thought about the idea of him actually making a phone, because I was completely clueless as to the Geeksphone, and other similar efforts. His idea is actually very similar to that of the Geeksphone, and he has about the same size team and a very similar idea. If he sells some phones and gets good publicity, at a minimum it will do wonders for getting a larger manufacturer to make an open WebOS phone. The Geeksphone has done pretty well judging by their forums. I'm in support If he gets produces the phone that he says he will, I will buy it - even though I'm on CDMA - just to support webos.

[laingman]

Well hp gave it to us real savage. If they would have just held on a little longer and produced some LTE phones and then go open source I would have just stocked up and be set for a good while.

[chris3illiams]

I'll keep an eye on this. But for myself, no physical keyboard no sale.

How about a keyboard accessory instead?

[chris3illiams]

I'm so excited I stumbled onto this thread while searching for an answer re. emoticons! You go, Chris! -- Tim 1E4AF729D5CEFFD0

Let's just say we got a brand new location in St. Louis. It's a free standing Office/Retail building with great parking, and a place I'm excited to call the "Mothership". We have the absolute best community in the world already, and I swear I will do right by the people of this awesome forum.