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  1.    #1  
    This sound bad for the WM5 based Treo.
  2. #2  
    I don't know. His main complaint was active sync and the fact that the keyboard is set up for use in landscape mode (duh?). If that is the only real complaints about WM, then I would considre that a plus :-)
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  3.    #3  
    I know it is early but I am right now expecting that Palm may yet under deliver and not manage expectations well enough, I don't want to see a repeat of the 650 initial rollout.
  4. #4  
    For me, what marked great leap forwards in Palm models has always been the screen technology. I remember going from the Vx to the m515 to the T|T to the T|T3 and it was always, always the screen that made me make the plunge.

    When it came time to buying a Treo, I passed on the 600 because of, well you know. But with the 650, even though it's screen was physically smaller, it was also bright and clear, easily visible indoors and out, and just plain wonderful to behold.

    Now the 700w comes along with a 240x240, seemingly grainy screen and everyone is asking about who is "upgrading" (huh??) and whether Palm will "under deliver".

    In my opinion, it is a fait accompli.
  5. #5  
    When are people going to understand the WM Treo announcement's whole purpose was for:

    * capital
    * power grab for the corporate customers MS and HP would've grabbed with the 6515/67xx's
    * to shut people like us up whilst they develop either a GSM version of the WMTreo or a Palm and/or version that is either CDMA or GSM, or both.

    It is only on Verizon to begin with; WM5 is superior to the Palm OS is hundreds of thousands of ways; and one-handed use, it may just be better. I don't know if you TREO users noticed, but legacy Palm apps do not support the 5-way without additional hackery and witchcraft via 3rd party extensions to enable that kind of functionality.

    What Palm is moving towards (wisely) is a pick-your-own-Treo.

    You like WM? Awesome. Buy this one.
    You prefer the Palm Os; you own lots of software? OK, shut up and buy this...
    You are a corporate/government/NSA person; you want a Linux platform, possibly develop your own apps in house? OK, grab this Linux-kernel Treo...

    Behold - the future of Palm. In the smartphone market, at least, it is the only way to stay relevant. Every manufactuer has a WM device; but nobody can implement it like Palm, Inc.

    Just remember, it's all verbatim
    Unlocked 750v: Voice / Data
    Blackberry 7130c: Private Line
    Motorola v60g T-Mo: Business Voice
    Also HTC TyTN factory; Palm LifeDrive & TX
    7 year Cingular/PacBell veteran.
  6. iomatic's Avatar
    629 Posts
    Global Posts
    645 Global Posts
    Whatever, man.

    Move to Redmond already.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAllVerbatim
    ...and one-handed use, it may just be better.
    Just to pipe in on this's not. I've used the PPC-6700 (a WM5 device) and the D-Pad integration isn't implemented as well system-wide as it is with the Treo. It's not bad, mind you, and the Treo 700w's one-hand-friendly design will help further. But the D-Pad integration is part of WM5 and is not something that will be unique to Palm's 700w.

    FWIW, I think that Palm may have a very small window of opportunity to capitalize on this. There are plenty of Windows Mobile hardware licensees who all have access to WM5's one-hand navigation features. The HP 65xx offers poor D-Pad navigation because it's not running WM5. The HP 67xx will remedy that and will go head to head with the Treo. The Treo will offer a narrower formfactor and full-sized SD slot, but the HP 67xx will have built-in GPS and Wi-Fi (and for some, the wider form-factor may result in more comfortable thumbboarding). And if Benq would just tweak their p50 for full WM5 compatibility (which means tweaking the RAM/ROM config and some of the buttons), I think that could be the most desirable of them all (full-sized SD slot, Wi-Fi, and 240x320 display).

    The only other advantages that Palm will have with their Treo 700w (and they're big advantages) are that they seem to be the only one of these three that are playing in the CDMA space (Sprint/Verizon), and Ev-DO.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  8. #8  
    ppl dont buy "windows" OSes because it is the best OS.

    its the standard, and we are all lemmings. :-)
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  9. #9  
    Buy what you like, use what you like. Its about individual choice and Palm recognizes they can gain more by offering a real choice. I grew up on PalmOS, but I became alot happier with WMoS. Its about choice.

    Now on the Treo 700w we know Palm (most likely) did make some very nice tweaks that are specific to the Treo only. Also Palm really can't afford to, well, SCREW THIS UP. WMoS users are not as forgiving as PoS users and their willingness to wait. We will and quite often do change devices at whim.

    I have a hw6515 and the "grainy screen" is not accurate. I have compared it to a Treo 600 and Treo 650 and I found it more than just acceptable to me. I have run vide on it without issue.

    Once again if Palm screws up the Treo 700w they will loose out big time and have lots of inventory to sell for scrap.
  10. DHart's Avatar
    273 Posts
    Global Posts
    274 Global Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAllVerbatim
    What Palm is moving towards (wisely) is a pick-your-own-Treo.
    Quote Originally Posted by ppcmd
    Buy what you like....It's about choice.
    Bingo. Palm realized that in order to survive in the rapidly changing market place, they needed to expand beyond POS to reach a larger audience. I believe that these little miracle devices we carry will become the centerpieces of most people's lives as global networks improve and, therefore, the funcionality of these devices grows ever more powerful. They will become the primary means of communication, source of information, credit cards, cameras, presentation devices, etc., for most people on the planet. That's a big market and Palm is smart enough to realize one size does not fit all and POS is certainly not the answer.

    It is a delicate balancing act for Palm - switch to a new business model while not alienating their loyal user base AND remaining solvent thru the changes. This is not an easy task. This market is cutthroat like no other.
  11. abb1's Avatar
    9 Posts
    Windows Mobile 5 is going to be an amazing software when it is fully released. Right now the problem is that it is still in its early stages and most software isnt even compatible with it yet. Once it is up and running it will surpass any previous versions of Windows mobile. One definate thing to note about WM5 is the new memory management. all programs installed no longer run on the system shared memory but instead run from ROM which is independent from running programs. Right now it is to early to give an evaluation on WM5 because there is only a handful of software companies that support it (because it is still brand new) and there is hardly any PDA's that come equipped with the OS. I am looking forward to this OS when it is in full swing and I will definately upgrade to the Treo 700 when it hits the market.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo2000
    This sound bad for the WM5 based Treo.
    A review by and *****..
  13. #13  
    Probably no big surprise here, but I found it to be a pretty good article/review. As someone who can be a bit obsessive and unforgiving about usability and QC issues, I love to see reviewers who judge a product more by the "it just works" (or doesn't work) standard instead of becoming easily enamoured by a product's feature list.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  14. #14  
    Now I'm hearing Bluetooth's A2DP is released in WM5.0. That's great for wireless stereo.
  15. #15  
    So the $1M question is: will the Treo 700w support PdaNet. This would allow higher speed tethering and will push me onto the 700. Without it you might was well stick with the 650. I wrote to junefabrics and asked the same question. Anyone have any insights?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    A review by and *****..
    That response (and the misspelling) speaks volumes. lol
  17. #17  
    WM5 is the first version of Windows CE that I like and find a comparably useful OS to Palm OS. I have been using it now for a few months and am used to the usability changes from Palm OS. It takes a little getting used to jumping back to Palm OS.

    I think the one thing that will please most people is the out of the box support for all the bells and whistles we purchase extra software or add extra shareware to our Treos. It streams Windows Media. It records audio. It streams windows media. It has full Office integration with none of the Dataviz niggles of DocsToGo. You cannot edit PPTs btw - just view them.

    One great place to learn more on WM5 is at Chris deHerreras longtime expert website:

    I have been running Real Player and TCPMP on my WM5 device to get lots of radio stations. It works just great on WiFi and I suppose it would on EVDO/1xRTT too. So now I can stream shoutcast, Real and WMedia stations.

    ActiveSync is quite reliable in my opinion. It has its odd foibles but no more so than HotSync. ActiveSync 4 uses a new virtual network device driver rather than a USB drive - the technology is called RNDIS. It takes a little getting used to by comparison to HotSync but I am quite fond of the continuous synch now. There are a few little foibles and bugs like the way it changes the partnership name after a hard reset (to one of two possible names) and the way it throws up temporary errors which then mysteriously disappear.

    One word of caution on setting precise expectations of what the new Treo will or wont do: the licencees of WM5 can choose which parts to include or exclude from the OS. WM5 has a wide feature set but not all licencees will adopt all portions of it. Also some of the desktop and server side integrations like Exchange SP2 Direct Push will take time to reach the market as the code has only just been released to licencees.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Poryphyron
    WM5 is the first version of Windows CE that I like and find a comparably useful OS to Palm OS. I have been using it now for a few months and am used to the usability changes from Palm OS.
    Which device have you been using then?

  19. #19  
    I had a preview Dell Axim device which is now released.
  20. #20  
    My VERY LIMITED review of WM5 Premium(not the phone version though):

    I'm not sure if it's the device or the system, but it's sometimes slightly unresponsive and slow.

    Also, I guess it's assumed that WM5 users are experienced with WM. It's not as intuitive as I'd like. I have to use "Help" more than I'd like. Even a guy who uses the older version got a little confused when looking at WM5(yeah, I had to beg for help from a WM user ) Newcomers like me MIGHT have adjusting problems. Palm seemed a bit more intuitive to me. I don't know if it's HP or WM, but info on how to use WM5 is a little sparse. It may be on the CD, but I fear how many MB that will take up(it's Windows, remember?).

    Also, looks like MS demands activation for the software you install on your computer(what else is new), so says the sticker on the CD package.

    According to what documentation you do get, you can only sync with Outlook email on ONE computer even though you're supposed to be allowed to sync on multiple computers. What sense does that make? Thank goodness I don't use Outlook!

    I also notice no "escape" or "cancel" on some actions. I don't know if it's HP or Windows, but no "escape" key(not even on the screen) makes getting out of mistakes tricky. If anyone knows what to do, please let me know.

    I didn't use Active Sync yet since I really don't want what's on my computer entered on my iPAQ(just me though, most people probably would sync).

    It does look good on a 320x240 screen though. But as for performance, I'm not ecstatic so far. Not unhappy, but not super thrilled either. Maybe I'm missing something, seeing that there are so many defectors to WM5 here(looking at all the 6700 posts). Once again, some of this could be the fault of HP, not WM5. iPAQs seem to attract problems from what I have read.

    Thoughts, advice, opinions anyone?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
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