[Cartman]

Yodamessenger from davesipaq has managed to get his hands on a Windows Mobile Treo.

From the pictures we can see the first available confirmation that the device will indeed be named the Palm Treo 700w.

More pictures in the next reply...

[Cartman]

Ta Da!!

Mmmmm Verizon...

Expect there to be a GSM version in about 8-9 months.

OK.. the most interesting picture of them all....
Notice that the Processor says XScale PXA27x!!!
WHaT tHe? HMMM... lets hope that x turns out to be a 2?
The Memory part bothers me a bit. I know WM5 handles memory and storage space differently...and I don't have our trial Sprint 6700 handy (let someone borrow it) so will have to look into this.

[Cartman]

I think we can also confirm that it will have a 240x240 screen from the last picture.

[ItsAllVerbatim]

OK, this is awesome...
Can't wait for GSM.
Actually, may get the CDMA | EVDO version just for that.
Yum.

[Cartman]

BTW: This is a pre-released version still...not the final product. First one I have seen with the product name on the label though. There is still a chance that it can be changed (the name) before its released (but i doubt it).

[dstrauss]

It must be Halloween; that memory number is WAY SCARY.

I'm not familiar with details of WM5, but on my iPaq 4155, the "memory" number is the total available RAM (56.77mb). If this jewel is under 26mb (Palm, why oh why do you ALWAYS settle for the minimum possible RAM on your handhelds?) Haven't we hammered you enough about that since the original 2mb Palm V (that's why you graced us with the 8mb Palm Vx)

==> ==> ==>

[jglev]

It must be Halloween; that memory number is WAY SCARY.

I'm not familiar with details of WM5, but on my iPaq 4155, the "memory" number is the total available RAM (56.77mb). If this jewel is under 26mb (Palm, why oh why do you ALWAYS settle for the minimum possible RAM on your handhelds?) Haven't we hammered you enough about that since the original 2mb Palm V (that's why you graced us with the 8mb Palm Vx)

==> ==> ==>

Never expect Palm to do more than the bare minimum. Remember, this is the same company that released the Treo 650 with LESS available memory than the 600.

WM5 devices report memory differently than WM 2003. The OS, all your programs and all your data are stored in the ROM (referred to as Storage Memory in WM5 terminology), so you don't lose anything should your battery go dead (think of the ROM as the equivalent of the hard drive on your desktop or laptop). RAM (referred to as Program Memory in WM5 terminology) is used to run programs only and cannot be used for storage (again, think of this as the RAM on you desktop). The more ROM, the more available storage and the more RAM, the more programs you can run at the same time.

With that background, this is what we know based on all of HTC's WM5 devices (the Wizard, the Apache and the Universal). All of these are advertised as having 128 mb total ROM and 64 mb of total. All the HTC devices report (when you check the memory applet in the control panel) that there is about 43 mb of ROM total (so where did the other 90 mb go?) and about 49 mb for RAM. The memory applet doesn't even bother to report the real total of the device memory (the OS is taking up a huge chunk of ROM and a smaller chunk of RAM right out of the box). When I reproduce the memory screen that is posted above for the Treo 700w on my 6700 (it's the "about" applet in the control panel), it reports the total RAM available in the device. This is 49 mb, as I mentioned above. So, if the Treo is reporting that it has 25 mb of RAM that would mean that it has about 32 mb of total program RAM. Let's all hope that this is only a pre-production model and the real one will have more RAM. We still don't know how much ROM will be available on the device, but with Palm, you never know. I really hope that MS wouldn't let Palm release a device with only 64 mb of ROM and 32 mb of RAM, because that would be pitiful and reflect poorly on the WM5 OS (something I would think Microsoft wouldn't want).

[surur]

Palm is determined to maintain the quality of experience all previous Treo users are familiar with. They can therefore not allow more than 10MB to be free for execution after the OS and essential apps (about 15MB) have loaded.

It looks like 32MB ram abd 64Mb rom, just like the HP rx1950, but with a lot more to do (evdo, sms etc).

God, are they mad or what?

Surur

[tomvb2000]

I'm with dstrauss - deathly afraid Palm's marketing brain went flatline on the amount of memory needed. Not having had experience with WM5, I'm hoping it's not as bad as it looks.

- when you say "ROM", it's actually flash memory since it's read/write, correct?
- in WM5, can you choose which stock apps get loaded into RAM (e.g. Windows StartUp)? If so, we don't have to create custom ROMs to help manage ram usage (like on the 650) and may mean 25MB is available for all simultaneously running apps
- on another thread, someone implied WM5 would do paging/swapping to the SD card. True? Although slower, it would increase total available memory.

[waynew73]

I've actually seen a demo of the real product..can't tell you how, but let's just say that I have connections. It's pretty amazing what it can do and I am a long time Palm user.

[tomvb2000]

Can you get your hands on one again? I'm most interested in knowing if it'll have dbcache-like problems (as you know all too well).

[Iceman6]

The standard setup for a WM5 device is 128 MB ROM, 64 MB RAM. I would be astounded if the 700w was any different, and that screen shot shows a pretty common amount of available RAM on a WM5 device.

[whmurray]

...Can't wait for GSM.
....

Get over it. You will not like the alternative.

[TreoDeJaneiro]

This is an area where I think M$ would weigh in heavily. The have set a standard with their WM5 devices... and I would think would only want to offer similar storage and performance.

Maybe this will be a good thing... having big brother looking over Palm's shoulder to keep them from doing the stupid $hit they are known for!

[Cartman]

- when you say "ROM", it's actually flash memory since it's read/write, correct?

Yes..it is flash memory...I would like to see people stop calling it ROM since that stands for ReadOnlyMemory and is commonly used to describe a hardware/physical type of memory. There are files in the Persistent Storage(flash memory) that cannot be erased (such as the OS) but that doesn't make this type or portion of storage medium ROM as it is still physically classified as flash memory.

[tomvb2000]

I agree completely - "storage memory" or "persistent storage" is much better. I would guess most of us know the difference, but certainly not everyone on the forum. When we're trying to get "real" answers on an unavailable device to see if Palm has learned anything in the last 2 years, it makes a big difference.

[RicoM]

Like many things...technology has outpaced terminology.

[dstrauss]

I can't see how the "About" program would report 26mb on a 64mb ram system, even under WM5 - WHICH - means they are going for 32mb ram

Verbatim - don't wait, keep your GSM eyes peeled for the HTC 8100 (Wizard) coming from Cingular. One handed experience won't be as good, but everything else 700w has; better keyboard; and WiFi to boot (hurray - miniUSB connector and no antennae too!)

[Cartman]

I can't see how the "About" program would report 26mb on a 64mb ram system, even under WM5 - WHICH - means they are going for 32mb ram

Yea.. that part concerns me as well... all we can hope for is that this is an early prototype and that it will be more in the final version. Also note that it does not display the processor correcly...instead putting an "x" where there should be a "2" for the 520MHz version.

[dstrauss]

Yea.. that part concerns me as well... all we can hope for is that this is an early prototype and that it will be more in the final version. Also note that it does not display the processor correcly...instead putting an "x" where there should be a "2" for the 520MHz version.

What do you want to bet that's not an error either - expect a processor speed downgrade to boot.