[talkin73]

I am a 7 year POS user and current Sprint T650 owner. I also use an iMac and Powerbook. All the frenzy over the WM Treo 700 announcement has caused me to explore the possibility of WM handheld and even purchasing a Windows OS notebook. I have a colleague who switched recently from POS to WM and have been interested in how it compares to POS. I've read a lot of threads here with comments from users of both OS's but it seems that some POS users are commenting based on little or no experience with WM. I would appreciate any feedback from folks who have used both recently (extensively), if possible, and their thoughts on usability and any relevant comparison comments. I realize bits of this info is available in other threads, but I was hoping to consolidate and encourage feedback from folks specifically on this comparison topic. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[PabloTX]

I went from a Palm IIIx to a IIIc, to a Toshiba e310, back to Palm OS with a Treo 600, and now a 650.

I thought I wanted more with PPC, and while it certainly did more, it did not do it well. For all the "benefits" it gives you (native document formats, etc), it simply didn't work well on a mobile device with a small screen.

A start menu and task bar on a handheld? No thanks.

If you want a PDA with modular functionality via 3rd party apps, stick with Palm (for now...no telling what the future holds for the OS).

If you want to try to do without a laptop altogether, try Windows.

But regardless of which platform you choose, think very hard before you get rid of your Mac computers. Unless you need apps that aren't available on OS X or are a heavy gamer, I can't see why anyone would want to go from OS X to XP under their own free will.

[jazzkids]

I'm in the same boat. I am a hard-core Mac user. But, I am really interested to see what this device can do. Personally, I am upset at the lack of REAL support for the MAc with Palm devices. Sure, they work, but it is a pain at times.

I am using Entourage for my cal and email and I think the new Treo will sync better to that than other solutions I've tried.

Well, we'll see!

[Stihl]

Finally a worthwhile thread thats not either whining or pure speculation. Thx

[Cobra Kai]

I have new axim and treo 600. I can say that in my opinion, palm is a lot less clicking and a lot easier to use one handed. I eventually got better at wm on my axim after i figured out the shorter routes to doing things. Originally I was x'ing out of app's and then going back to the start menu when I realized you could just view a list of running apps and select the one you want to switch to, more like alt-tab'ing on the laptop keyboard. Also, I think the dialer/phone, the main reason we buy these things, is a bit more intuitive and user friendly on the palm. That being said, I am excited for the wm version because the specs are good enough to get me to switch from my 600 (faster, more mem, evdo, etc). I can also say that wm is more powerful, in terms of being able to use excel, word, powerpoint, etc. WM also seems to have more options, like the calendar in my palm is very straightforward whereas there seem to be more options/features in the axim's calendar. I did have a serious problem trying to put vindigo on my ppc 2003 axim but it works great on POS. I'm psyched that the 700 is apparently the ms 2005 edition. Apparently it's improved OS. MULTI TASKING!! need I say more? Cut in one app. and paste into ANOTHER!! Before everyone flames me, it's just my opinion!

[talkin73]

But regardless of which platform you choose, think very hard before you get rid of your Mac computers. Unless you need apps that aren't available on OS X or are a heavy gamer, I can't see why anyone would want to go from OS X to XP under their own free will.

I couldn't help but quote this As I read the "under their own free will" part, I had an image of someone being tortured incessantly and then finally agreeing to switch from OSX to XP I wouldn't get rid of my new iMac, just swap the PBG4 for an XP laptop to have access to both platforms. I'm in the process of doing this, but will keep OSX at home as I generally prefer this platform.

Thanks to folks for their feedback. If there are more specifics, I'm interested as well. The info about one-handed operation seems pretty important. The 650 rarely requires a stylus or two hands and that is convenient. If there are other major areas folks have thoughts on, I'm very interested. Others out there who've used both?

[talkin73]

I have new axim and treo 600. I can say that in my opinion, palm is a lot less clicking and a lot easier to use one handed. I eventually got better at wm on my axim after i figured out the shorter routes to doing things. Originally I was x'ing out of app's and then going back to the start menu when I realized you could just view a list of running apps and select the one you want to switch to, more like alt-tab'ing on the laptop keyboard.

Cobra, that's the kind of thing I'm interested in hearing about. It seems WM gets dinged for being time consuming to complete simple tasks. But, at the forums on pdaphonehome, folks have lists of many, many modifications they have done to the handhelds that make on screen keyboards appear faster, increase speed of app launching, eliminate on screen messages and others by simple mods to system files that can be done in seconds to minutes with free editors. As a long time Palm users, I'm aware of many hacks, extensions, 3rd party pref files, but not a way of literally modifying the extensions myself on the fly. There is an extensive discussion of this regarding the new PPC 6700 from Sprint (a handheld I was looking at) and it seems pretty amazing what can be done. I seems that really settling in with WM requires learning all the nuances... just like the POS?

[Cartman]

Remember..aside from the new form factor...the biggest benefit of the Windows Mobile Treo is that it will have the "palm" experience. Part of what that means is that they worked very hard to get one hand operation on the device.

It is reported that they have hooks into the OS that no other device manufacture has had in the past.. at least according to their PRPRPR $spinners$..$we$ $shall$ $see$..

Now that they are in the Windows Mobile market they need to have a compelling reason to be selected above other manufactures and they know that...everything ive seen indicates that their new device will not be just another Windows Mobile phone...

[Cobra Kai]

That's right guys- remember that this is going to be wm2005, and most of us have used 2003. Also, palm is adding the dial by name feature, to make it more easy to one hand it. I'm in- it just better come out early or on time and not late. I know, I know, I'm smoking crack. We'll be lucky if we get it only a little later than expected.

[Gaurav]

I use both platforms as my sig indicates. I actually like my x50v very much. It is a solid machine and very powerful. IMO, WM is far superior in everything multimedia. For example, during the Palm webacast a couple weeks ago, I was able to stream and watch the webcast on my x50v easily. This is not easily doable on PalmOS. Also, for gaming and internet browsing via VGA is very nice. However having siad all this, I still use my Treo as my every day device b/c it is more conveniant and I prefer the PalmOS for smartphone os. Plus I absolutely hate the PIM on WM. In fact, I think the default PIM on WM are the biggest piese of garbage I've ever seen. I know everyone will tell you to just get PI, but it is absolutely astonishing just how crappy the default PIM on WM devices really are!

[aetherion]

As someone who has used the WM Treo, I can say that one-handed works pretty well. I haven't used it extensively, but one nice feature is the "OK" button which allows you to close a window with one of the hardkeys (where the T650 calendar button is now). One of the key focuses of WM5 was on one-handed operation.

That being said, I'm not sure that I can justify upgrading my T650 to a WM Treo. I would if I could afford it, if that says anything. What I like most are the builtin Office apps, ultra-tight Exchange/Outlook integration, and the media capabilities. It is so nice to take any video on your system, and DRAG AND DROP it to your WM Treo and have WMP auto-convert the bitrate and size. I do fine with Kinoma for POS, but I had to pay $50 for that drag-and-drop ease.

I'd say that anyone interested in WM5 should go try it out in a store, esp on the Treo itself when the phones hit the stores. POS is definitely simpler and a less complex than the Start Menu system, but Palm has done a nice job on the WM Treo and WM5 offers a lot of powerful and fun features built-in. If anything, it'll light a fire under PalmSource's **** to give us a bit more "out-of-the-box" functionality and style.

[Gaurav]

WAIT aetherion!!! You actually have a WM TREO?!!!

Please post some more of your thoughts and impressions puleease! Can you give us any more info on the specs? Does the OK button just close the window or actually close the app? What about the 240x240 screen? How is the push email feature? Thanks...

[talkin73]

I know everyone will tell you to just get PI, but it is absolutely astonishing just how crappy the default PIM on WM devices really are!

fgunk, what is "PI"?

[dstrauss]

fgunk, what is "PI"?

Not to **** in, but PI is PocketInformant - it's the DateBk5 of the pocket pc world.

[aetherion]

I don't actually have a WM5 Treo, but I do have *access* to one. I'll give an update on specs a bit later when I play with the phone, but off the top of my head I believe the phone has 64MB flash (about half of which is user accessible) and 64MB ram...don't quote me on those until I double check later.

The 240x240 resolution is definitely fine. I had to look very closely side-by-side at my T650 to notice the pixel difference...it's there but you're not going to notice unless you're looking for it. Perhaps the tons of color and graphics on the WM Treo makes the resolution difference harder to see. Also, I haven't tried viewing any hi-res images yet, so I can't make a sweeping generalization about the resolution difference being unnoticeable.

The OK button closes the app, just like clicking the X in WM apps. So you can continuously open programs via the start menu key (or with stylus) and then close each one by hitting the OK button...if you just keep hammering the OK button you'll close all of your apps. That's a great feature IMO.

Other than that, honestly the phone is just a Treo with WM5 on it, plus some under-the-hood changes to accomodate WM5, of course. It feels and looks like a T650 (physically, except for slight shape difference). Not much else to say...let me know if you're looking for more on this.

Edit: forgot you asked about push email. WM5 has push. Super-easy to set up. Yes, it works. Pretty neat.

[surur]

You should be able to tell us, by going into the settings menu, how much ROM, how much ram and how fast the processor is. These are the main features of interest currently. Also how much FREE ROM and ram after a soft reset.

Surur

[samkim]

Is there built-in gps?
And are there any apps that are Palm-specific? I.e., anything developed by Palm Inc., or anything not likely to be standard across all WM5 devices.
Thanks.

[neill]

Will push mail work without Outlook/Exchange?

[jjprusk]

I have used both POS and WM and they are both fairly equal with some pros and cons each way. POS is slightly easier to manipulate, but it certainly seems to be more stable. I would certainly miss ChatterEmail as it beats the heck out of WM email.

As far as a Mac goes, I purchased my first Mac lst November (a 17" Powerbook). After a trial run, I then switched my wife as well. All I can say is that I don't miss my XP systems at all!!!!!! I haven't had one crash, virus, or problem upgrading in almost a year now. Also, the performance is exactly the same now as a year ago compared to XP systems that degrade and need a complete re-install every year or so. We're also switching all our systems at work over to Mac's from XP systems - the adminstrative overhead was just too much. People grumble at first, but after a little while, with no crashes and greater ease of use, they become addicted to OSX. Prior to OSX I wouldn't even have considered a Mac, but now I wouldn't consider a Windows system.

[Kupe]

Will push mail work without Outlook/Exchange?

With Verizon, you can push through the server they offer to those without their own corporate one. It's not as instantaneous as Exchange, but it's decent (about evey 5-10 minutes it pushes).