The "We've Officially Been Screwed By Palm/Verizon" Thread - 700w Owners Unite!

**littlewaywelt** · 08/28/2006, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by gadgetluva

As I recall, it was prevalent knowledge that the 700w had 32mb of RAM. Many reviews stated that it was a shortcoming. Did that stop you guys? Nope, you made a decision that you could live with it. Verizon also has a 15 day (maybe 30?) return policy. So you all had in-hand experience with the phone to decide if it was worth it or not. Sorry, no sympathy here.

What you seem to forget is that the people who read those reviews and visit these forums probably make up less than 2% of Treo sales. ...and yes, I made that statistic up. The concept of being an informed consumer is completely irrelevant. If a consumer purchases based on the specs on the box he/she would be likely be very surprised.

**whmurray** · 08/28/2006, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by littlewaywelt

What you seem to forget is that the people who read those reviews and visit these forums probably make up less than 2% of Treo sales. ...and yes, I made that statistic up. The concept of being an informed consumer is completely irrelevant. If a consumer purchases based on the specs on the box he/she would be likely be very surprised.

On the other hand, the whiners are here; they should be a little better informed than others.

Face it, the dictum of the law is caveat emptor. There seems to be little sympathy here for a suit.

**Debo** · 08/28/2006, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by SamT

But therein lies the issue. Palm cannot do this for now, they have no option. Forget about Palm coming out independently with this. They need Verizon's blessing to do anything for Verizon customers.

And if there is an upgrade you can be sure that VZW will charge you full retail price for it.

This is exactly the crux of some of my earlier arguments. Palm needs to be able to issue unlocked CDMA phones without fear of their ESNs being blacklisted.

You do realize why they do this don't you? Its so that service providers don't have to provide SERVICE. They lock you into rate plans, tack on cancellation fees and try to reduce churn that way instead of actuall providing a service that people would happily stay with because they're satisfied w/ the product...

**gadgetluva** · 08/28/2006, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by littlewaywelt

What you seem to forget is that the people who read those reviews and visit these forums probably make up less than 2% of Treo sales. ...and yes, I made that statistic up. The concept of being an informed consumer is completely irrelevant. If a consumer purchases based on the specs on the box he/she would be likely be very surprised.

Ah, yes I knew someone would bring up that argument, and it is completely valid. So I shall counter with this - online reviews and the internet itself is a great tool, but it cannot replace going into the store, and picking up and playing with the demo. At all of the VZW stores I visited in the week of release, they all had working models.

So, almost everyone would have had an opportunity to play with the device and check the available ram. And even if they did not, that still brings us to the point of a 15-30day return policy.....

**littlewaywelt** · 08/28/2006, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by gadgetluva

Ah, yes I knew someone would bring up that argument, and it is completely valid. So I shall counter with this - online reviews and the internet itself is a great tool, but it cannot replace going into the store, and picking up and playing with the demo. At all of the VZW stores I visited in the week of release, they all had working models.

So, almost everyone would have had an opportunity to play with the device and check the available ram. And even if they did not, that still brings us to the point of a 15-30day return policy.....

It's not the job of the consumer to verify the manufacturers' claims or what it leads the consumer to believe, which is exactly what the packaging, palm and verizon websites do. I find the numbers that they use to be misleading. Additionally I personally would not have found the task manager while reviewing the product at the store...and that's certainly not possible if you purchase via web or phone.

yes, the return policy does give an out. I for one never found (in my case) the device's achilles heal (inability to maintain the auto b setting) until well after the trial period ended. This could easilly happen to a novice user after the expiration of the return period. There have been many successful class actions where the problem was discovered after the return period.

...again, I'm not saying I'd sue over something like this; I wouldn't but the cause for a suit is certainly there, imo.

**fumblerooski** · 08/28/2006, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by bloodycape77

Kinda of off topic but didn't I hear that line on the Colbert Report?

If so it was unintentional...I don't watch that show but I do like Steven Colbert. The last line is definitely borrowed. I don't remeber who said it first but it was long ago. That is one concept that will truly stand the test of time.

**gadgetluva** · 08/28/2006, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by littlewaywelt

It's not the job of the consumer to verify the manufacturers' claims or what it leads the consumer to believe, which is exactly what the packaging, palm and verizon websites do. I find the numbers that they use to be misleading. Additionally I personally would not have found the task manager while reviewing the product at the store...and that's certainly not possible if you purchase via web or phone.

yes, the return policy does give an out. I for one never found (in my case) the device's achilles heal (inability to maintain the auto b setting) until well after the trial period ended. This could easilly happen to a novice user after the expiration of the return period. There have been many successful class actions where the problem was discovered after the return period.

...again, I'm not saying I'd sue over something like this; I wouldn't but the cause for a suit is certainly there, imo.

I agree that the regular non-expert PPC user would have no idea what significance memory has in any case. Like I was saying before, I'm not really on anyone's side, but I do believe that anyone thinking about sueing really should calm down a bit and realize its not worth going to that extreme.

**bloodycape77** · 08/28/2006, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by gadgetluva

I agree that the regular non-expert PPC user would have no idea what significance memory has in any case. Like I was saying before, I'm not really on anyone's side, but I do believe that anyone thinking about sueing really should calm down a bit and realize its not worth going to that extreme.

This is a very good point. Kinda of pointless to sue. What they need to is wait till either PPC techs add more memory, wait till the contract is over and go with Sprint or end their contract early and go with Sprint. There are options out there and if they sue best of luck to them.

**gadgetluva** · 08/28/2006, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by bloodycape77

This is a very good point. Kinda of pointless to sue. What they need to is wait till either PPC techs add more memory, wait till the contract is over and go with Sprint or end their contract early and go with Sprint. There are options out there and if they sue best of luck to them.

If they're that upset about it they could do a variety of things as well instead of complaining on a forum. Sell the 700w on ebay and put the proceeds towards a new phone like the xv6700. Write a letter to corporate expressing what they think of the situation and what solutions the company can offer. Whatever it is, they can always be proactive about it.

There will always be complainers. Even if the 700w came with 64mb of RAM and Sprint's version came out with 96mb, there would be those threatening to sue.

**bloodycape77** · 08/28/2006, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by gadgetluva

There will always be complainers. Even if the 700w came with 64mb of RAM and Sprint's version came out with 96mb, there would be those threatening to sue.

I beg to to differ if the 700w came with 64mb of ram I don't think there would be too much of an issues since 64mb give the user more space and freedom so to speak and if the 700wx then came out 96mb sure there would be users complaining but it won't be a full out whine. It be more like why didn't we get it or it would have sure been nice to have that extra space oh well or something along the lines.

**lawrence.c.lee** · 08/28/2006, 11:20 PM

this is such a moo discussion.

you know. like a cow. useless. its moo.

**gadgetluva** · 08/29/2006, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by bloodycape77

I beg to to differ if the 700w came with 64mb of ram I don't think there would be too much of an issues since 64mb give the user more space and freedom so to speak and if the 700wx then came out 96mb sure there would be users complaining but it won't be a full out whine. It be more like why didn't we get it or it would have sure been nice to have that extra space oh well or something along the lines.

like I said, there would be those that would threaten to sue. I agree that there would be far less "whiners" but there would always be "those" that cry foul and think litigation is the next logical step.

**gibraltar** · 09/01/2006, 03:08 PM

I do not think this discussion is moot at all.
The device does not work as promised and should be repaired or replaced.

**Pearl_Diva** · 09/01/2006, 03:53 PM

I do think Verizon users should be unhappy, it's very clear they were beta testers for the first 700w. I saw a comparison video and the 700wx boots up faster and has a brighter screen. It has the memory and the screen it should have had in the first place. And Palm should have been aware of what memory shortage does to a Windows device. Palm always does this, "upgrade" the next model with what the last should have had in the first place. I'm not really sure if you can get away with a lawsuit though.

**Stihl** · 09/01/2006, 11:04 PM

Just be happy that by the time you can upgrade your phone, you'll be able to slip into a model that probably exceeds the 32 mb memory improvement. Perhaps 420x420 screen res as well? It's almost garaunteed (or at least improved res-what else could they easily improve on besides that or adding even MORE ram?)

**bubbatex** · 09/01/2006, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by gibraltar

I do not think this discussion is moot at all.
The device does not work as promised and should be repaired or replaced.

What exactly does it not do as promised? What did they "promise"?

**IsLNdbOi** · 09/01/2006, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by Stihl

(or at least improved res-what else could they easily improve on besides that or adding even MORE ram?)

Faster processor? Built in Wifi? Bluetooth 2.0 w/ better bluetooth stack?

**dangottreo** · 09/02/2006, 05:17 PM

I see a lot of responses leaning towards the 15 day return policy and in store demo. the majority of those with problems are those loading 3rd party apps. how can you test that in-store? and how can you effectively test that in two weeks? I own a 700w and chucked it for a Q for which I went back to the 700w. I don't add apps to it and it works fine for me with a need for a reset every few days to kickstart the activesync. but all and all it's a solid phone for me. I considered the xv6700 but all the hacks needed to make it just work was enough for me to stick with the treo as the 6700 has 64mb and still sucks out the box. the 32mb we got sucks but not enough to sue over or cancel and goto sprint for either.

**klurfdawg23** · 09/02/2006, 05:22 PM

do rememebr that unlike sprint, verizon users get 2/3 new HTC PDA's before end of the year from over on engadget i believe it was. Dont complain! lol we still getting the 700wx finally 6 months later

**spliced249** · 09/02/2006, 06:35 PM

I have alltel and wish I had the Treo 700wx option.... Guess Ill just have to wait...

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