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  1. #21  
    If you want to win, you have to prove they have done anything. Do those who VZW's Navigator have zero problems with GPS? I have never seen anyone in the forums say "Since I subscribed to VZW navigator ALL my GPS applications work flawlessly!!"

    If you can find that out, then you are a step in the right direction.
  2. #22  
    I'll say it again here... I just can't believe with all the developers on these forums, not one of them is willing to look into this. I'm even willing to pay cash for whoever can find the root of the problem. Apparently those who can do something haven't shown any interest in doing so and Verizon's laughing all the way to the bank. Which is why I'll probably leave for AT&T Palm Pre. I really think this is part of Verizon's attempt to down-play any product other than droid on their network.
  3. #23  
    i've become comvinced that this is issue is just a software glitch that the pre is not switching over to the GPS signal from the tower triangulation method in google maps and other gps apps (gpsdashbrd, trapster, et al) if you have locate me using set to gps AND goole servs. used sperately, everything is fine...and i'm not using vz navi.
  4. ZFF
    ZFF is offline
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    Everything is NOT fine just by using one locator service or another. When I use Google services it locates the nearest cell tower. That's it. When I use GPS only it's hit or miss. Most times, to wake it up I have to do the dance

    1) Shut both services off.
    2) Shut down the phone completely.
    3) Pull and reinsert the battery.
    4) Restart the phone and wait 2 full minutes for it to boot.
    5) Turn on GPS only.
    6) Restart the phone and wait another 2 full minutes for it to boot.

    Most times it works. Sometimes not. The fact we even have to mess around this way is ! I am inside my 30 day guaranteed satisfaction window and guess what? I am NOT satisfied! and I am not content to wait and see if it's just a software glitch only to find it's not and be stuck with it for two years. I will pay my $35 restocking fee and get the Droid. I know that one works. And I will even pay extra to tether it.

    P.S. One more bug. When used as a hot spot, the phone will not charge the battery during any form of data transfer. I had it tethered to the AC charger on a long drive and tried streaming. Killed the battery in less than 2 hours.

    Could have been a nice phone. Instead, it's a genuine piece of .

  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    Another interesting question is whether or not the people who claim to have working GPS units have doctored their phones at some point, to eliminate the possibility that the fix isn't already sitting in the webOS Doctor archive but not being pushed out OTA for some reason.....
    My verizon GPS works well and has on the last both of the phones i have had -- i have patched the crud out of my phone -- i have 50 installed right now i have doctored many times including when came out i had to doctor -- i use the cpuscaler - have govnah installed am using the uber kernel from webos internals - i run at 500-800. i used the QPST method to enable all GPS modes and i have the following settings 1) locate me via both GPS and google services turned ON -- this allows the aps to open even if the signal is weak and then as the GPS signal strengthens the lock becomes more acurate. 2) auto locate ON -- this allows aps like mode switcher and where is my pre access to the GPS.

    I use the GPS constantly -- i have trapster turn on when i get in the truck and put my phone on the touchstone and this ap works flawlessly from the car. I don't know if it is that i have aps that are constantly checking GPS location or something with my settings but my GPS works -- it is not as good as my garmin nuvi but pretty darn close.
    Last edited by mespiff; 05/11/2010 at 10:48 AM.
    Rob Chilcott

    Twitter @robchilcott
    " I am only a stupid electrician after all"

    My house is a webOS house
    My pre 2, Touchpad 32g
    Wife Pixi, touchpad 32gb
    Daughter -- my old pre+
    of course my 16 year old son has and droid incredible but i think i remeber finding him on the porch
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by iTz Nicholas72 View Post
    We need to sue Verizon Wireless for crippling the GPS.

    I would like to say I'm just kiddding but I was talking to my Dad about there are so many people sueing for the stupidest reasons and winning.

    I'm sure there is a pretty good chance we could win.

    What do you think?
    Quote Originally Posted by blueray View Post
    doubtful. If anyone can prove that VZ crippled GPS, they would have to, by law, fully enable it. I could care less about giving all the winnings to the lawyers - I just want a GPS that works on a device I paid for and not be forced into buying VZ nav just to get it to work. I'm also tired of large companies flexing their arms and taking advantage of consumers just because they can - especially in this market and especially after they force us to pay a data plan. Enough is enough already.
    The problem is that, at least currently, Verizon does not advertise the phone as having full fledged GPS. Their marketing material only says "VZnavigator capable". Personally I doubt that a lawsuit would get any traction. Carriers have always disabled features on phones. And phone hackers have always figured out ways to re-enable them. The number of hacks (seem edits) that were available for my old Motorola E815 to enable features Verizon disabled are staggering.

    Anyway, if you go forward with it good luck.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    More like suing the auto manufacturer because an added Sirius/XM subscription is required to listen to the satellite radio that came installed in the car.....
    more like the analog radio sorta works, sometimes but if you use the sate radio it works great....
  8. ZFF
    ZFF is offline
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    15 Posts
    I'd like to chime in here with another possible workaround to Verizons crippled a-GPS service.

    Obviously, here in the U.S., those of us who have the Palm Pre Plus through Verizon have quite a bit of trouble "waking" the GPS chips in our phones. The thing is, I think using the term "waking" to describe the problem is incorrect. I think it's waking just fine. It seems to me that the GPS is "forgetful".

    A real GPS unit does not need to rely on A-GPS. It stores known satellite information in NVRAM so that, on subsequent uses, it can obtain a lock again very quickly. The first time you turn one on, however, it can take up to 15 minutes or more for it to find that first satellite then seek out its neighbors. The only time it ever has to do this again is if you turn it on hundreds of miles away from the last location it was used. Then it becomes lost and it has to start from scratch again.

    The Pre GPS does not play by the same rules as truly dedicated GPS devices, caching nearby satellites in NVRAM. There apparently is no real NVRAM associated with the Pre GPS. It only retains local satellite information for a short while. This is proven by getting a good lock, doing a Luna reset and restarting the GPS application. Reacquisition is practically instantaneous. Try it again the next day and it's lost again, usually taking a long time to lock again, even if the phone is left on. It's not that the GPS didn't "wake". It's just lost. a-GPS does not work as it should on the Pre either. If it did it would be able to associate local satellites to nearby cell towers almost as quickly as a restart.

    If one could figure out a way to emulate the NVRAM function in software, store the satellite info on the usb drive and reload it back to the GPS chip upon application launch, he'd be a HERO! Not to mention it would be the only Pre GPS app in the world to solve a very annoying problem EVERY Verizon customer has with their Pre GPS service.

    So the question is: Can it be done? and.... Can you do it?
  9. ZFF
    ZFF is offline
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    15 Posts
    Update 6/30/2010 - After exhaustive testing I have discovered that my theory above which gives Verizon the benefit of a doubt is not valid. I do now know for certain that the GPS NVRAM is in fact storing last known position. I know this because I installed Zip Code Tools fresh for the first time ever. When I used it for the very first time it correctly identified the zip code of the last known position "taken from the GPS" which was nowhere near my then present location.

    When having difficulty getting the GPS to wake (and I now use that term because sleeping is what it's doing) IN EVERY CASE launching VZ Navigator causes it to wake. Not even Google Maps can wake the GPS reliably. There are times when I must first perform a Luna restart (Java restart may work too. Haven't confirmed this yet).

    Here is my phone configuration and the steps that ALWAYS WORK for me.

    Palm Pre Plus on Verizon
    Advanced Reset Options patch from Preware
    Nodoze v0.6.3


    1) GPS location On
    2) Google Services Off
    3) Auto Locate makes no difference. It's user preference. I have mine on.

    Steps to wake GPS.

    1) Perform Luna Restart
    2) Launch Nodoze
    3) Launch VZ Navigator. Leave it maximized for 30 seconds.
    4) Launch GPS app of choice (Google Maps, Maptools, Minimap, Goto Tools, etc)
    5) Once your GPS app gets a good lock, close VZ Navigator leaving your GPS app open.

    The reason I use Nodoze is not every GPS app runs in the background. If the app sleeps for too long, the GPS will too. Maptools runs nicely in the background. Google Maps and Goto Tools will keep the phone awake as long as they are maximized. If the GPS goes to sleep and will not reawaken right away, launching VZ Navigator again ALWAYS reawakens the GPS.

    What this means is the GPS is beyond any doubt being crippled from responding to calls made to it by 3rd party GPS applications. This is the most compelling evidence I have seen to date of Verizon's anti-competitive business practices. If they do not correct this problem immediately, I am urging all of you, especially you 3rd party software authors to contact your Attorneys General and get on their case about this. This is against the law!


    P.S. I don't know what VZW worries about anyway. Their Navigator app still has added value if someone wants to pay for it. It offers turn by turn directions, automatically zoomed intersections and voice prompts, traffic jam redirect, etc., features I have seen nowhere else but in true dedicated vehicle navigation systems such as TomTom, Garmin and others. It's not a bad value if they only knew how to market it effectively.

    Again, IMHO.
    Last edited by ZFF; 06/30/2010 at 11:46 AM.
  10. #30  
    yet another proof verizon is crippling gps. Then again someone had a point when said that the time it will take to sue them we will be on new webos phone, but if we keep calling them and complain and maybe start lawsuit maybe new phone will have TRUE STANDALONE GPS.
  11. #31  
    What worked for me was to subscribe and then unsubscribe to VZ Navigator. Now it works fine for me.
  12. #32  
    I just did what Jackmiles2006 said. My GPS now works. So to the OP yes I tried VZ nav inside and it found me very fast.
    Then I unsubscribed (maybe I should use the service for a month though because it probably cost me $9.95!) and my GPS app Jog stats worked INDOORS! on a cloudy Seattle night surrounded by Cedar and Fir trees.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieb View Post
    I just did what Jackmiles2006 said. My GPS now works. So to the OP yes I tried VZ nav inside and it found me very fast.
    Then I unsubscribed (maybe I should use the service for a month though because it probably cost me $9.95!) and my GPS app Jog stats worked INDOORS! on a cloudy Seattle night surrounded by Cedar and Fir trees.
    like ACTUALLY worked??? I hate the gps being so damn ****ty, if this is the only fix i might have to resort to this.
  14. #34  
    Ha! This country cracks me up. The rest of the world doesn't call it "litigation nation" for nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by iTz Nicholas72 View Post
    We need to sue Verizon Wireless for crippling the GPS.

    I would like to say I'm just kiddding but I was talking to my Dad about there are so many people sueing for the stupidest reasons and winning.

    I'm sure there is a pretty good chance we could win.

    What do you think?
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  15. #35  
    I just got my palm pre plus on verizon a few days ago. before getting the phone I read up on these forums to make sure I knew the pros/cons of the phone and saw the gps crippling issue with vznav. When I went to get the phone I actually confronted the service rep about it and he confirmed that running vznav trial even once will cause your gps to stop working with other apps. If you want proof go to your local service reps and film them without their knowledge.
    I didn't ask how to fix it, I didn't plan on running it and removed the vznav icon within 2 days of getting the phone.
    I feel the only truly free way to get around verizon wirelesses mafia tactics is to perform a factory reset on your phone. A full reset should clear the lock on the gps, then remove vznav with webos quickinstall tweaks right away.

    I have had the phone for around 13 days now and have never had an issue getting a gps lock accurate within a few feet outdoors. Palm confirmed it, Verizon confirmed it, user reports confirmed it, vznav is to blame and without it the gps is golden.
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