[treobk214]

Oh now, hell, people...hell...
The sheer horror the apologists endure in BEING FORCED to read the complaints of those not blown away by the pre. How trying and frustrating it must be... they just....dont.....stop!!!

lol

[ADGrant]

It just hit me what you said... "Absence". What are you talking about. Your last post on here was less than 12 hours ago:

Do you really somehow imagine that your "absence" from a thread for 12 hours is all it takes to kill it?

AMAZING

Its called irony, perhaps I should have used a for your benefit, but I don't really like them (they remind me of a laugh track).

[ADGrant]

As far as the "compelling 3rd party apps", I guess we'll know soon enough. I'm sure you'll have a whole new excuse if you happen to be wrong.

Well I only said I wasn't optimistic (and that I didn't think the platform was attractive from the perspective of a professional developer). OTOH where is the facebook app? Its a free download on every other platform so it can't be the app store that's delaying it. It shouldn't even be that hard to implement using Palm's SDK. Facebook must employ a decent number of Javascript developers. I am very surprised we haven't seen one (and no I am not being sarcastic).

[hparsons]

Actually, nope, never use speed dial. Typing name from KB is easier for me if i'm using the Pre.

You seem to misunderstand. For those like my wife, the pretty touch interface is the attraction of the Pre. She wants to swipe, tap, swipe... I'm willing to bet the vast majority of Pre owners don't use speed dialing or even know it has it.

You've touched on something that it seems the complainers typically ignore. A couple of posts back, you mentioned "because they're wired to go to the app first", and now you talk about "the vast majority of Pre owners don't use speed dialing, or even know it has it"
Exactly! The vast majority of those people that have all of these complaints about this brand new device, with a brand new interface, and brand new OS, are using it the way they've always used their other devices.
And it's only been out 3 months.
If they continue to use it, they will get "rewired". They will learn the features. They will get happier. In addition, while they're doing that, Palm will be cleaning up minor issues, and adding major functions.

[hparsons]

I love threads like this, they bring out the members of the 'pre defense force' so I can add them to my ignore list!

Yep, nothing like burying your head in the sand to make sure you don't see anything positive about the Pre on a Pre oriented forum...

I take it this is goodbye for me?

[GMoney749]

So if in reading a gripe, and you're thinking you don't have that problem...chances are i'm not talking about you. You're in Precentral keeping up with the latest. You aren't part of the majority of Pre owners in that regard. Instead you're among the 5-10% of palm owners.

In that regard, this phone is not close to embarassing. I imagine the average person is starstruck with the touch interface, web browser, fast camera that takes great pics, integrated threaded messaging, sharp popping screen, GPS, etc. Still, Palm needs to make things easier to get started. If you're using gmail, its simple. Most don't. Make it simple palm (which means desktop sync). And fix that phone app because IMO its the one thing that could frustrate these users that stands out to me.

Here's a classic example; a few nights ago we were sitting on the couch, my wife with her faced buried in her Pre (as usual) while I watched TV. She turns her head and asks, "How do I forward a text?". I respond, "You can't." Her response was to turn back to fooling around with her phone. Her head didn't explode, didn't even ask "Why not?"

It's been like a month and she still can't put the thing down. The $2500 piano I just bought her that she had to have is gathering dust. Should have just got her that BB Tour...

[DJeremyC]

Im cutting-edge gotta-have the latest-greatest devices too...and with phones like this you will have bugs.

More bugs if you hack into it of course....sad thing is people who use homebrew and Quick Install then their phone messes up complain...DUH...you probably did it yourself. NOT PALM or SPRINT.

I love my Pre is and has been 90% stable, more then any other phone. My other best-to-date was my Treo 650 and it was only about 80% stable, had to reset it every week. ONLY have had to power down manually my PRE about once a month.

LOVE this phone!!! LOTS of POTENTIAL!!!

[pre_me]

why dont you pay a little more attention to where some of these updates are coming from and the statement that was made by palm. the music remix you are talking about came from webos internals as did the virtual keyboard and preware for that matter.I could be wrong but i think palm stated that they made this device for developers a phone to make your own so i think what you are complaining about is what palm was shooting for..giving the people a product that you can totally make your own....

[Reeves]

You've touched on something that it seems the complainers typically ignore. A couple of posts back, you mentioned "because they're wired to go to the app first", and now you talk about "the vast majority of Pre owners don't use speed dialing, or even know it has it"
Exactly! The vast majority of those people that have all of these complaints about this brand new device, with a brand new interface, and brand new OS, are using it the way they've always used their other devices.
And it's only been out 3 months.
If they continue to use it, they will get "rewired". They will learn the features. They will get happier. In addition, while they're doing that, Palm will be cleaning up minor issues, and adding major functions.

Why is it wrong for people to expect the Pre to perform on par with their previous device or a competing device with the same specs (e.g. iPhone 3GS)?

This is a serious question. Clearly, the vast majority of Pre complaints aren't about differences in the interface, but rather areas where the Pre hardware and software performs comparatively poorly.

I mean, is it wrong for me to expect to pull up photos on a smartphone and NOT have to wait for each one to individually process before I can see them as they are? If the Pre phone app took 2-4 seconds to register each number pressed on the dialpad, would that be "my" problem instead of a problem with the Pre? Would I need to get "rewired" to learn to accept it?

If so, then why should Palm do ANY updates on the device? Hell, why did they do any in the first place? Clearly, every advertised function of WebOS does work eventually, even in WebOS 1.0. If you don't like the "workaround" of turning the device a couple of times to finish rendering half-rendered pages, you should be rewired to accept it. Same goes for the excessive checkerboarding. Or any perceived lag. Or slow start up times. Or slow calendars.

Palm's work is apparently done. All developers should immediately move on to the next OS several years down the line. The lead time should come in handy as it seems it took them two years plus just to get WebOS to its current beta state.

[urkel]

My Pre power button works perfectlyand the nipple is sexxy.

Positivity +2

[darreno1]

The real bummer for the guy with the neg attitude is that s/he will never be happy. After getting tired of the Pre's "faults", this person will move on to another device and complain that it doesn't do multiprocessing contol as easily as the Pre and rate their newer find a -1.

By extending the analysis we might grasp to say that these persons are doomed to be miserable and unhappy in everything they do. Enjoy your unhappiness, Mr. Negative! I too enjoy new technologies but I'm not going to found my life in the search of the perfect device.

- Perfection is a target that moves faster than the speed of light.

Very well put! The chronic complainers will NEVER be happy if they don't modify their behavior/attitude.

I also think some people are confusing the ranting and complaining with constructive criticism. There are things about the Pre I think could be improved. One is as simple is the power button. I think it should be repositioned at the top and have better feedback rather than the mushy feel. But that's just me and I'm cool with the fact that others may like it as is. In my case, I've adapted to the point it doesn't bother me anymore. Another is the volume buttons. I think they're are a little too easy to activate and I found myself having to pay attention to them more than I would have liked to. Again it's automatic now and it's no longer a bother. Would I like to see these small things addressed at some point? Of course, but in the grand scheme of things, they're too minor to be a bother or to warrant a complaint / rant thread. Also because I might feel that away about some things doesn't mean that's the way it should be. If the majority of users don't share my opinion, then it's up to me to adapt or move on.

[hparsons]

Why is it wrong for people to expect the Pre to perform on par with their previous device or a competing device with the same specs (e.g. iPhone 3GS)?

I never said "on par", I said they are using it the "same way they're used to". It's a different device, and it operates differently.

As for the rest of your rant, ???? I never said, nor implied that "Palm's work was done" or that developers should "move on." As a matter of fact, what I did say was "Palm will be cleaning up minor issues, and adding major functions."

[hparsons]

That really just reinforces my point. These are show stopper issues that are preventing release of our apps on this platform. Upon raising the issue with Palm, the reply I got is that they are aware of the problem. They recommended obfuscation, but also admitted it wasn't a rigorous solution.

My point remains that we can develop for this platform, but until Palm sorts out some of the issues, our time is better spent targeting iPhone.

And, as I said, you're allegation that I'm "manufacturing" stuff was a bit misleading. You're comments could reasonably have been interpreted the way I did. As a matter of fact, I'd have to say most people would have been hard pressed to read your comments and have them lead to the conclusion that you are developing.

[shadavis08]

In response to the OP:

People aren't very bright and don't realize the realities of the world. When there are multiple competing products, each will have its strengths and weaknesses. Some will do X better others will do Y better, etc. None will do all things perfectly for all people. You have a lot of not-so-bright people who just bought a Pre which does Y amazingly but they are coming from a product which does X amazingly and they are focused on the strengths of that previous product. Their minds are not flexible enough to adjust to the differences. It's a whole lot easier to complain rather than adjust one's usage habbits of a product.

A great example is multiprocessing and cards. No other product currently does this in quite the same way. +1 for Palm (IMO). Other products have visual voicemail. Is this a -1 for Palm or a +1 for the competition? The negative people who like to complain will say it's Palm's fault and say it's a -1. The people who appreciate each product for its respective strengths will probably say it's a +1 for the competition.

The real bummer for the guy with the neg attitude is that s/he will never be happy. After getting tired of the Pre's "faults", this person will move on to another device and complain that it doesn't do multiprocessing contol as easily as the Pre and rate their newer find a -1.

By extending the analysis we might grasp to say that these persons are doomed to be miserable and unhappy in everything they do. Enjoy your unhappiness, Mr. Negative! I too enjoy new technologies but I'm not going to found my life in the search of the perfect device.

- Perfection is a target that moves faster than the speed of light.

right on the spot with that comment !!!!!

[cardfan]

You've touched on something that it seems the complainers typically ignore. A couple of posts back, you mentioned "because they're wired to go to the app first", and now you talk about "the vast majority of Pre owners don't use speed dialing, or even know it has it"
Exactly! The vast majority of those people that have all of these complaints about this brand new device, with a brand new interface, and brand new OS, are using it the way they've always used their other devices.
And it's only been out 3 months.
If they continue to use it, they will get "rewired". They will learn the features. They will get happier. In addition, while they're doing that, Palm will be cleaning up minor issues, and adding major functions.

You don't get it. It's like beating against the wall here. People will simply take it back and go elsewhere.

The user going to the phone app and trying to scroll through call lists and what not is doing it wrong? Should use speed dial..blah blah blah.

No, they're not going to use speed dial. They're going to TAKE IT BACK or at the very least be frustrated or form a negative opinion and have an eye out for something else later.

So geez, what the heck is wrong about posting on a Pre forum that the phone app sucks? Either say "yeah it sucks..i hear ya" or go post in a cheerleading thread and ignore it. Isn't it funny how complaint threads have the most posts usually and by the same people who claim they hate them?

Regarding the speed dial: Something that's interesting. On the iphone, you got spotlight which is their universal search. Go look at precentral's sister site, theiphoneblog, and you'll see a poll there in the forums asking if people actually use it. Most say NO. They like seeing the icons, tapping, swiping, blah blah blah. It's the experience. Typing letters and enter? They didn't pay 300 to do that.

And on the Pre, which has multitouch, a capacitive screen, and a phone app icon staring at you on the launch bar, it shouts "tap me" to make a phone call. So what's this "rewiring" about? The fat middle should ignore such impulses to tap the phone icon and instead use the kb? As palm intended huh?

[urkel]

The real bummer for the guy with the neg attitude is that s/he will never be happy.

More accurately, wouldn't it seem that the true "unhappy" and "negative" people are the ones who feel such a compelling need to modify the personal needs and opinions of strangers? A guy in Iowa wants video in his phone because it is capable of it. Why does that affect you where you live?

Anyway, what makes you assume someone with a complaint isn't happy? Software/firmware updates are constantly being pushed and consumers are always going to buy the next version so the development process relies on customer feedback and a company that is willing to consider it.

In no way does pointing out a single flaw mean that the user mopes around all day and refuses to use the other 2000 features that are done right. We can all be "happy" with a flawed product. The real problem seems to be the people who blame the end user for the not embracing those flaws.

[darcside]

Furthermore, this is a $300 product. We go out and spend $15,000+ on a car or truck and never once do we complain to the car company about the car's shortcomings. Never do we join a forum relative to the car that we've purchased. Never do we ask, why doesn't my car turn into a robot like the one in the Transformers movie.

I'm a member of all kinds of car forums, especially for the one that i drive and we all complain about the same shortcomings of our cars, and find out ways to modify them to do what we'd like them to do... it's just alot more expensive than modding a phone lol... but just like my car, i love my pre.

[urkel]

Why NOT complaining may be a bad thing.

Think of the products out there with the most obnoxious and vigilant defenders and many of them are the ones that tend to remain stuck in the past in many aspects. TiVo, OS X, iPhone, Wii, Garmin etc. All fantastic products (that I love and use) but try talking to a fan about a flaw and you'll get your head chewed off. And the result is too much praise and too slow in competitive changes. The reason multitasking isn't available on the iPhone isn't because it's impossible, it's because they don't have an unpaid defense force of closed-minded "enthusiasts" that will punch out anyone who says it's a mandatory feature. End result: Multitasking in 2013 rather than 2008.

But then look at the products in the past few years that seemed to get dumped on a daily basis. PS3, XBox, Windows, Palm all got criticized heavily for not keeping pace and you can see so many positive changes that have made those products better.

It's debateable how much influence "complaining jerks" have on making a product better. But there's no question that people trying to restrain public opinion are doing absolutely nothing for the future of that product. You wouldn't have Win7 without Vista-Haters, you wouldn't have Exchange support on Snow Leopard without us begging for a way to use our Macs in the office and you wouldn't have the George Foreman Deluxe Grill without complaints about the original being too small for a baby calf.

You may not appreciate the "complainers" now, but you can thank us later when the Pre 2 comes out with 32GB+ memory, a functional nipple, speedy interface and autofocus camera.
(smilee indicates "lighten up dudes")

[Reeves]

I never said "on par", I said they are using it the "same way they're used to". It's a different device, and it operates differently.

As for the rest of your rant, ???? I never said, nor implied that "Palm's work was done" or that developers should "move on." As a matter of fact, what I did say was "Palm will be cleaning up minor issues, and adding major functions."

I'm simply taking your nonsense to its logical conclusion. EVERYTHING on the Pre currently works as advertised. So really any further adjustments should be made on the part of customers who need to rewire themselves. And why should Palm add anything? People should rewire themselves to accept it as it is.

That should work out wonderfully for Palm.

[ronlongo]

My Pre has GOT to be the best phone/PIM device I've ever owned. Can't wait to see how it evolves.