[ADGrant]

AdGrant , why do you use the desktop sync? to backup contacts ?
or what is that you are missing by not having sync ?

The ability to sync Tasks, Memos, Pocket Quicken and eWallet.

Contacts & Calendar are handled by the built in cloud syncing. Tasks not so much and notes not at all. One of the best things about the Hotsync architecture was the support for third party apps.

A solution may soon exist for Pocket Quicken and eWallet. Motion Apps have recognised that a PalmOS emulator that cannot Hotsync is of limited use to their customers and expect to provide hotsync support in their next release.

[Tyndall]

I dunno. I am much happier in the cloud and never having to remember to synch. All my tasks, contacts, emails and appointments come through automatically now. What more could I wish for?

I guess figuring a way to synch\backup notes/memos...but not a big deal for me at all. I am sure that an app will eventually come along and be much better than the mative memo app.

As far as "being embarassed", I totally disagree. It's one thing to have a homebrew guy sit in his basement and concoct an app that seems to work, but if it doesn't or it breaks the phoen then he bears no personal responsibility. It's quite another for Palm to just throw open the doors and let anything into the app store. Palm has to be certain that what it approves through the app store will run on every single Pre and that there are no major compatability issues. It's a much higher standard. I think things are moving along at a fairly brisk pace considering launch was barely 2 months ago and we all started from scratch.

Overall I can't ***** about the way things have progressed.

[ADGrant]

I dunno. I am much happier in the cloud and never having to remember to synch. All my tasks, contacts, emails and appointments come through automatically now. What more could I wish for?

Presumably you are paying for a MS Exchange account?

[Tyndall]

For work. But for personal stuff I use Google, who is all knowing and all seeing.

And I have seen posts about "free" exchange accounts\certificates. I can't refer though because I wasn't paying close attention when I read through it as it wasn't of import to me at the time.

[gbp]

Presumably you are paying for a MS Exchange account?

You can use hotmail account with Activesync for use with Pre.

[gbp]

The ability to sync Tasks, Memos, Pocket Quicken and eWallet.

Contacts & Calendar are handled by the built in cloud syncing. Tasks not so much and notes not at all. One of the best things about the Hotsync architecture was the support for third party apps.

A solution may soon exist for Pocket Quicken and eWallet. Motion Apps have recognised that a PalmOS emulator that cannot Hotsync is of limited use to their customers and expect to provide hotsync support in their next release.

Contacts and calender are fine with me.

But wouldn't you be happy if an official WebOS call is available to you for Quicken and eWallet ?

There is this Splash ID this available though its not great.

[Weaser999]

I can see how this phone appeals to two crowds. One, women. They like the design and find it appealing.. small, sleek, discrete. Hackers and the average joe will enjoy this phone due to it's ease of writing apps for and customization. People are already figuring out how to do tons of stuff on this phone and it's only been out shortly. I'm impressed with the homebrew selection and the quality of apps being made by non-professional developers. Thats pretty exciting! This phone is starting off slow, but once it becomes more well known, I think it's going to pick up steam. Apple is already getting irritated by it.. why so? What do they have to fear if their iphone is solid and they are confidence in their product. I think Steve Jobs sees the potential in the Pre and is worried he'll lose market share.

[PreCrapura]

I recently had a nearly 40 minute phone call with Palm Corporate, the person I spoke with was nice and somewhat informed, we discussed the nearly 200 things the Pre still does not do that nearly every other phone on the market does right out of the box, a list which is on Sprints own Pre forum, and he could not tell me that Palm was even acknowledging the list and could not say "we are working on it", when i suggest that it seems like Palm was perhaps abandoning the Pre in anticipation of newer hardware to come out before the Christmas buy, he was quiet and said he couldn't really comment on that. Good thing California has strong consumer protection laws, I think before this is all over Sprint will be buying back a lot of phones.

[Weaser999]

What about making a list of the things the Pre does that every other phone on the market doesn't do? It's easy to split hairs and find faults. Sure I'd be worried if I bought a phone that didn't do everything out of the box and wasn't capable of it in the future. Truth is, there are a lot of homebrew apps that have already picked up the slack. It's a matter of being an early adopter or waiting till the phone matures. Early adopters will naturally get burned... look at the xbox 360. Now there's over 20 million of them.

[Reeves]

The subjective part is the reasoning. Jumping to the conclusion there is a flaw without considering other possibilities is dumb.

The only time the phone goes straight to voice mail for me, is when there is a poor signal.

I said NOTHING about it going straight to voice mail. If I was, how would reducing the phone app lag help resolve that in any way whatsoever?

If you're scrolling faster than the screen can redraw then yes it might skip to blank spaces. Having multiple apps open or CPU-hungry apps can cause this. But it's not a bug in the phone app. This can happen in the web browser also.There is only so much memory to go around and as discussed already, the CPU is doing all the processing at the moment. Updates to the OS should address this.

What?

This happens with only the phone app card open. In fact, I've never been able - under any condition or any amount of apps running - to produce a smooth scroll in the phone app.

For poops and chuckles, I just restarted my Pre. Fresh reboot. I let it come up and clicked the phone app button. FIVE seconds for the app to come up. No other apps running, and this is after a memory-clearing reboot. Flick to scroll. ONE second delay before the scroll started, and then it scrolled with stutters.

Tried going back about a week, and the blank space appeared briefly.

Continues to happen? Sorry not to me and I use the phone a lot during the day.

You don't have to press the hang up button multiple times, just once. It takes maybe a couple seconds at most to hangup. I can see the temptation to continually press the button by the impatient.

Actually, sometimes you DO have to press it multiple times. I've pressed it before, and the screen even did that ripple thing ON the hangup button. Nada. Sometimes, the Contacts screen is there instead, and you have to swipe your way back. That lags too.

I'm sure in some cases where people have many cards running, or background apps hogging the resources, the phone app (like any other app) will lag more. Again it's a resource issue. Just like on a computer, the user is required to have the intelligence to take some action to free up some memory.

Objective critique? No, more like a lack of common sense.

Again, your assumption that this only occurs when we're using multiple apps is laughable. I have no GPS running. No IM. No bluetooth. Email is set to "As they arrive", which is the least CPU-intensive setting.

Stop making excuses. It's pathetic. Well, not as much as your personal insults toward non-fanboys who dare to expect their phones to work well as a dumbphone, or who dare to hold Palm to any sort of standard. But it's pretty pathetic nonetheless.

[hparsons]

Actually I am. I own several Palm devices. Some of the decisions they have made definitely lessen the chances of me remaining their customer though.

And they still support those functions on those devices. In spite of the myth (and it really isn't a true statement) that the "customer is always right", it doesn't apply here. You are insisting you get something before you buy, and they are saying that the device in question doesn't come with that.

The truth is that many people had to purchase add-ons to get the previous versions of Palm devices to properly sync to various desktop configurations (which is where Pocket Mirror got its start, and Intellisync made its presence). The "everything synced so well" didn't really exist. There were always issues (especially if a person had multiple desktop machines and wanted the same information on all of them).

It is a new age. I'm pleased to see that there will be third party options for those that still want to do things the old way. I'm also pleased that those of us that started moving on a long time ago don't have to subsidize those solutions (at least not as much as we did before).

[hparsons]

The ability to sync Tasks, Memos, Pocket Quicken and eWallet.

Contacts & Calendar are handled by the built in cloud syncing. Tasks not so much and notes not at all. One of the best things about the Hotsync architecture was the support for third party apps.

A solution may soon exist for Pocket Quicken and eWallet. Motion Apps have recognised that a PalmOS emulator that cannot Hotsync is of limited use to their customers and expect to provide hotsync support in their next release.

Personally, I believe Pocket Quicken and eWallet would both be better served to come up with a solution that works with the new way of doing things, rather than to continue to depend on conduits through an emulator.

So, I'm wondering. Is that just my opinion, or a design flaw on their part??

[hparsons]

...
when i suggest that it seems like Palm was perhaps abandoning the Pre in anticipation of newer hardware to come out before the Christmas buy, he was quiet and said he couldn't really comment on that. Good thing California has strong consumer protection laws, I think before this is all over Sprint will be buying back a lot of phones.

Maybe because he was supressing laughter in the background.

[gbp]

I recently had a nearly 40 minute phone call with Palm Corporate, the person I spoke with was nice and somewhat informed, we discussed the nearly 200 things the Pre still does not do that nearly every other phone on the market does right out of the box, a list which is on Sprints own Pre forum, and he could not tell me that Palm was even acknowledging the list and could not say "we are working on it", when i suggest that it seems like Palm was perhaps abandoning the Pre in anticipation of newer hardware to come out before the Christmas buy, he was quiet and said he couldn't really comment on that. Good thing California has strong consumer protection laws, I think before this is all over Sprint will be buying back a lot of phones.

I doubt PALM is abandoning Pre, Verizon is getting it. And GSM Pre is being released all over the world.
Your post is not credible.

[GMoney749]

I just had drinks at the bar with Rubinstein last night, and he told me...

[darreno1]

I said NOTHING about it going straight to voice mail. If I was, how would reducing the phone app lag help resolve that in any way whatsoever?

I never said reducing lag would help in that regard. I said when it happens to me, it's because of a poor signal. I haven't had missed calls because the Pre just decided not to answer or didn't 'wake up' in time to answer. If that's happening to you, then you could have a bad phone

What?

This happens with only the phone app card open. In fact, I've never been able - under any condition or any amount of apps running - to produce a smooth scroll in the phone app.

There is no hardware acceleration and I doubt the code is fully optimized. You will get some stutters. It will not be iphone smooth so don't expect it. I realized that from the first day I played with the Pre in a sprint store. And if you play with the games or other apps you see the same stuttering at times. This is nothing new and really doesn't make the phone any less usable.
It's not like I wouldn't like Palm to improve this but I'm not going to get angry about it and whine every 2 seconds. I still bought the phone knowing it was this way.

For poops and chuckles, I just restarted my Pre. Fresh reboot. I let it come up and clicked the phone app button. FIVE seconds for the app to come up. No other apps running, and this is after a memory-clearing reboot. Flick to scroll. ONE second delay before the scroll started, and then it scrolled with stutters.

I never said the phone was going to be blazing fast with no other apps open. Just that the more the phone has to multitask, the more it would lag. Anyway, your post is exactly what I referring to when I said people were just impatient. I bet if you close the phone app and start it again, it will start in maybe 2 seconds. Also if you leave it open, you won't ever have to start it up.

Tried going back about a week, and the blank space appeared briefly.

Ok after doing multiple fast scrolls through 'all calls', I have seen it briefly show a blank space before the info appeared so you're correct there but is that a flaw? It takes less than a second for the data to appear. You can't wait that long? This is similar to what was happening with the iphone before vers 2 of the firmware.

The 'all calls' database is obviously larger, so the Pre takes longer to parse it for info. I don't get it on the missed calls or the contacts. This can and probably will be improved.

Actually, sometimes you DO have to press it multiple times. I've pressed it before, and the screen even did that ripple thing ON the hangup button. Nada. Sometimes, the Contacts screen is there instead, and you have to swipe your way back. That lags too.

I do NOT have this issue. What I do notice is there is a very slight delay (couple seconds or so) after the button is pressed befoe the phone acknowledges the hang up. That's not an issue for me. I can't say the same for other people. Do you have a screen protector on? I would imagine different screen protectors will have different effects on the touchscreen. I have a phantom skinz protector that seems to have little or no effect.

Stop making excuses. It's pathetic. Well, not as much as your personal insults toward non-fanboys who dare to expect their phones to work well as a dumbphone, or who dare to hold Palm to any sort of standard. But it's pretty pathetic nonetheless.

You came right out and used the word 'dumb' first, so lets get off the soapbox.

What's pathetic is the constant whining after the fact.

[mrloserpunk]

I recently had a nearly 40 minute phone call with Palm Corporate, the person I spoke with was nice and somewhat informed, we discussed the nearly 200 things the Pre still does not do that nearly every other phone on the market does right out of the box, a list which is on Sprints own Pre forum, and he could not tell me that Palm was even acknowledging the list and could not say "we are working on it", when i suggest that it seems like Palm was perhaps abandoning the Pre in anticipation of newer hardware to come out before the Christmas buy, he was quiet and said he couldn't really comment on that. Good thing California has strong consumer protection laws, I think before this is all over Sprint will be buying back a lot of phones.

I'm sorry but man, it sure sounds like you have no clue about palm or this device. So you spent less than .30 seconds talking about each thing on your list???? I call BS or at least an exaggeration on your part.

[ADGrant]

Personally, I believe Pocket Quicken and eWallet would both be better served to come up with a solution that works with the new way of doing things, rather than to continue to depend on conduits through an emulator.

So, I'm wondering. Is that just my opinion, or a design flaw on their part??

Given that Pocket Quicken and eWallet were written for PalmOS long before WebOS was announced, it is hard to see how their use of Hotsync Conduits could be considered a flaw. Personally, I am not comfortable with that data being in the cloud though it could be made secure with encyption.

Pocket Quicken is available on only two Smartphone platforms, Windows Mobile and PalmOS. I don't know of any competing products (mobile extensions to desktop Quicken) on any other Smartphone device. If I was the developer of Pocket Quicken, WebOS might not be at the top of my list of devices to support. I would be looking at the iPhone & Blackberry). That said I would not be surprised if they just stuck to Windows Mobile and PalmOS.

I am more optimistic about eWallet and there is always Splash Id (though people don't seem to love that).

[Reeves]

I never said reducing lag would help in that regard. I said when it happens to me, it's because of a poor signal. I haven't had missed calls because the Pre just decided not to answer or didn't 'wake up' in time to answer. If that's happening to you, then you could have a bad phone.

It's bad software. The OS is currently laggy. Period.

There is no hardware acceleration and I doubt the code is fully optimized. You will get some stutters. It will not be iphone smooth so don't expect it. I realized that from the first day I played with the Pre in a sprint store. And if you play with the games or other apps you see the same stuttering at times. This is nothing new and really doesn't make the phone any less usable.

How about Instinct smooth? How about HTC G1 smooth? Both devices are incredibly underpowered compared to the Pre, and they have much smoother scrolling and phone functionality than the Pre. I've used both extensively (and owned the former for a short time).

This most certainly is new in a device of this caliber. And it is embarrassing.

It's not like I wouldn't like Palm to improve this but I'm not going to get angry about it and whine every 2 seconds. I still bought the phone knowing it was this way.

I didn't know as I assumed Palm could deliver a phone experience on par with year-old featurephones. Thus far, that assumption is wildly incorrect. But you, and too many other people here, dismiss calling attention to that as "whining." Oh, well. 'Tis the lot of a blind fanboy.

I never said the phone was going to be blazing fast with no other apps open. Just that the more the phone has to multitask, the more it would lag. Anyway, your post is exactly what I referring to when I said people were just impatient. I bet if you close the phone app and start it again, it will start in maybe 2 seconds. Also if you leave it open, you won't ever have to start it up.

What a novel solution. All I have to do is leave the phone app, and other apps I frequently use, up, and the problems go away. No, wait...instead of startup lag, then it's OS lag because the CPU is strained from the multitasking.

The only thing I'm impatient about is waiting for Palm to fix the functionality of the primary purpose of the device.

Ok after doing multiple fast scrolls through 'all calls', I have seen it briefly show a blank space before the info appears so you're correct there but is that a flaw? It takes less than a second for the data to appear. You can't wait that long? This is similar to what was happening with the iphone before vers 2 of the firmware.

The 'all calls' database is obviously larger, so the Pre takes longer to parse it for info. I don't get it on the missed calls or the contacts. This can and probably will be improved.

Yes, everything that's been mentioned CAN be improved. The questions are WILL it be improved, and if so, when?

BTW, the missed calls list ALSO scrolls choppy and laggy.

I do NOT have this issue. What I do notice is there is a very slight delay (couple seconds or so) after the button is pressed befoe the phone acknowledges the hang up. That's not an issue for me. I can't say the same for other people. Do you have a screen protector on? I would imagine different screen protectors will have different effects on the touchscreen. I have a phantom skinz protector that seems to have little or no effect.

No protector. But it most certainly is an issue that I have to repeatedly press buttons and wait to see if it had any effect. People ostensibly do not buy touchscreen smartphones because they like playing guessing games nor because they thought their previous handset was far too fast and responsive.

Anyway...The Pre powering up without exploding seems to be enough for you and your ridiculously low standards. Anybody with real requirements wanna discuss this?

[hparsons]

Given that Pocket Quicken and eWallet were written for PalmOS long before WebOS was announced, it is hard to see how their use of Hotsync Conduits could be considered a flaw. Personally, I am not comfortable with that data being in the cloud though it could be made secure with encyption.

Pocket Quicken is available on only two Smartphone platforms, Windows Mobile and PalmOS. I don't know of any competing products (mobile extensions to desktop Quicken) on any other Smartphone device. If I was the developer of Pocket Quicken, WebOS might not be at the top of my list of devices to support. I would be looking at the iPhone & Blackberry). That said I would not be surprised if they just stuck to Windows Mobile and PalmOS.

I am more optimistic about eWallet and there is always Splash Id (though people don't seem to love that).

I was being facetious with the "design flaw" comment. Whether or not any of the named companies decide to support the Pre (or any other device) of course isnt't a "design flaw" issue, but instead is simply decision.

However, one of the beauties of the Pre again is its accessibility. Any of the "money" programs could be adapted to use SQLLite. I haven't dug deep enough to see if the Pre already has a built in encryption method for the database, but I suspect it's there. These types of programs are basically simple database programs, and would be easily adaptable to the Pre.

And again, if the established guys don't do it, you can be sure that others will.