[gbp]

That's silly then. If people are worried it copies the iphone, then what about the Hero or others? Offering both virtual and real kb devices would make better sense in trying to reach the most users. They can be flat, use glass screens, more solid, etc that's harder to do with a hybrid portrait slider like the Pre.

The issue is , if you want to add a physical keyboard to a device like iPhone the overall length will increase. It will be an engineering challenge to optimize everything ( i.e. keep the overall size the same and give a physical keyboard without compromising the screen size).

The only way to do it , pick the Pixie , extend the phone by an inch overall which will add three quarters of an inch to the existing screen.
Then replace the keyboard with old treo keys ( 800W is the best and optimized). Then get rid of the plastic screen with glass.

Order the back cover from HTC

I would call Job Robinstein smart if he can do the above to come up with an "Amazing" phone.

[Stroven Taulrok]

the Pre is my buddy, and I don't see myself wanting anything else until Palm brings out a better Pre. Android is neat, and would most likely compliment my software better (aesthetically) but This little black slice if heaven has me hooked. When it comes right down to it, people will go with what suits their lifestyle, and right now the Pre does just that.

[Reeves]

That's silly then. If people are worried it copies the iphone, then what about the Hero or others? Offering both virtual and real kb devices would make better sense in trying to reach the most users. They can be flat, use glass screens, more solid, etc that's harder to do with a hybrid portrait slider like the Pre.

Again, I definitely agree, but Rubinstein is the one that drew a line in the sand just like Jobs did when they first presented the iPhone. I think at some point, each of them will have to blink and offer a different form factor, but Palm will definitely do it first.

I just see no indication that they are taking virtual keyboards seriously, and an all-touchscreen WebOS device with the build quality of the Pre would be frightening.

[Elysian893]

Again, I definitely agree, but Rubinstein is the one that drew a line in the sand just like Jobs did when they first presented the iPhone. I think at some point, each of them will have to blink and offer a different form factor, but Palm will definitely do it first.

I just see no indication that they are taking virtual keyboards seriously, and an all-touchscreen WebOS device with the build quality of the Pre would be frightening.

Why would an all touch device have the short comings of the Pre? That makes 0 sense whatsoever, as the main complaint about the Pre is the slider, an all touch phone wouldn't have one.

[Reeves]

Why would an all touch device have the short comings of the Pre? That makes 0 sense whatsoever, as the main complaint about the Pre is the slider, an all touch phone wouldn't have one.

Uh, the slider doesn't make the screen crack with little-to-no pressure. The slider doesn't make cracks appear near the USB port. The slider doesn't make it slick and plasticky.

Most importantly, the slider doesn't do the crappy job of quality control that Palm's been doing. Yes, there are inherent design flaws with most sliders, but the Pre's hardware problems go way beyond that. You'd eliminate the battery/slider issue and not much else.

[Elysian893]

Uh, the slider doesn't make the screen crack with little-to-no pressure. The slider doesn't make cracks appear near the USB port. The slider doesn't make it slick and plasticky.

Most importantly, the slider doesn't do the crappy job of quality control that Palm's been doing. Yes, there are inherent design flaws with most sliders, but the Pre's hardware problems go way beyond that. You'd eliminate the battery/slider issue and not much else.

Those issues you mentioned are not common issues, and it's hard to say if they are real issues considering it's always possible/probable that the screen got bumped without the owner realizing it. Any glass screen can break. The being too slick thing is also subjective, and not a quality issue. I have no problem with my Pre being too slick. The only issue's I've hard are speaker related, one being the earpiece died, the other being the speakerphone speaker blew. Never had any cracking issues on either my launch day Pre or my 2nd one, and my 3rd Pre is damned near flawless, and it's a refurb.

BTW, I open my Pre by the screen nearly every time, using my thumb, right above the gesture area/button. No issues since launch day.

[Reeves]

Those issues you mentioned are not common issues, and it's hard to say if they are real issues considering it's always possible/probable that the screen got bumped without the owner realizing it. Any glass screen can break.

Any screen at all can break. The fact is iPhone (and Hero) glass screens can objectively take more punishment than a Pre plastic screen. As a matter of fact, the ONE guy I know with a Pre (He also has an iPod Touch) had both in his pocket one day when he went to the birthday party of one of his kid's classmates.

Same pocket. He told me he got on the trampoline to play with the kids there, took a couple of jumps and falls and when he checked his pocket an hour later, the Pre cracked all the way from the button to the furthest edges of the screen. Done. The iPod Touch...not even a scratch.

But anecdotal evidence isn't everything. In fact, it's not much at all. Still, reports of cracks and screen blotches are more than widespread enough in this forum and elsewhere to let me know that the build quality of this phone is poo.

[Stihl]

once webos is legit, palm is going to license it out and you will have a OpreO on several form factors

[Elysian893]

Any screen at all can break. The fact is iPhone (and Hero) glass screens can objectively take more punishment than a Pre plastic screen. As a matter of fact, the ONE guy I know with a Pre (He also has an iPod Touch) had both in his pocket one day when he went to the birthday party of one of his kid's classmates.

Same pocket. He told me he got on the trampoline to play with the kids there, took a couple of jumps and falls and when he checked his pocket an hour later, the Pre cracked all the way from the button to the furthest edges of the screen. Done. The iPod Touch...not even a scratch.

But anecdotal evidence isn't everything. In fact, it's not much at all. Still, reports of cracks and screen blotches are more than widespread enough in this forum and elsewhere to let me know that the build quality of this phone is poo.

When was the last cracked screen report? I haven't noticed one in at least a month or 2. You don't even own the phone to know whether it's "poo" or not?

[Reeves]

When was the last cracked screen report? I haven't noticed one in at least a month or 2. You don't even own the phone to know whether it's "poo" or not?

First off, I do own the Pre and have since June 6.

Second: http://forums.precentral.net/showthr...26#post1972626

[Elysian893]

First off, I do own the Pre and have since June 6.

Second: http://forums.precentral.net/showthr...26#post1972626

Is he talking the actual screen, or the plastic by the power/sleep button? The other guy seems to be talking plastic as well. Your post made it seem like you didn't own a Pre, since you mentioned the 1 person you know who owns one and all. Sorry for the mixup. Has your screen cracked, or the plastic? I'm on Pre 3 with none of these issues, and I've got 4 other friends with a Pre who don't have these issues, anecdotal evidence of course... You also do realize that we are on a discussion forum for a product, and you are going to see more problems here than you'd hear about otherwise? It's like the BMW forums I frequent, would make my car seem like a real piece of junk, yet the majority of owners don't have issues, it's just the squeeky wheel syndrome.

[Reeves]

Uh, I think any part of the device cracking is bad, but if you choose to believe that these are merely isolated, meaningless incidents....roll with that.

[Elysian893]

Uh, I think any part of the device cracking is bad, but if you choose to believe that these are merely isolated, meaningless incidents....roll with that.

Even on this forum, it hasn't been a widespread issue, so unless you can show me some actual statistics that show it to be more widespread than I believe, I'll just keep on feeling how I feel about the issue.

[bclancy]

... The Pre needs redesigned but i think it still has a place as well. Palm's current decision to go with a cheap pixie won't help perceptions of weak quality and signals that Palm isn't really concerned with quality. This is my main concern going forward with Palm. I'm sure the OS will get much better over time.

I agree with all of this except that I think that an affordable Pixi was/is necessary for Palm to get WebOS into as many hands as possible. While I too would prefer a marriage between the Pixi and Pre form factors (Pre guts in a candybar with wifi, or no keyboard and a really good software keyboard), the former of these ideas lacks screen real-estate and the latter is too much like Apple. I think Palm made the right decisions (aside from the little oreo thing).

[bclancy]

... Still, reports of cracks and screen blotches are more than widespread enough in this forum and elsewhere to let me know that the build quality of this phone is poo[r].

Regarding blotches, I've only seen those reports in the early/lauch-day Pre's and that problem seems to have been quickly corrected. I think the blotchiness was actually mis-described in the beginning too. It turned out that some of the 5 LEDs powering the backlight were mismatched in light output. My original launch-day Pre has this issue but I did not exchange it as I wanted to see if the device would otherwise last. The LEDs and screen are exactly the same today as they were on day 1. I've never experienced any stress cracks (but I'm hoping to say that the mismatched LEDs are really starting to bother me if I ever do. ) I've seen so many iPhones and iTouch'es with cracked screens and still being used. It's gotten to the point when I meet someone with an iPhone/iTouch, I look at their screen, and literally, half of the people I meet have a working iWhatever with a cracked screen. I don't know if I'd call that good or bad.

[Reeves]

I'm going to conclude my angle in this particular discussion by simply asking which device's reputation for build quality would rather have: The iPhone or the Palm Pre?

Be honest.

[Elysian893]

I'm going to conclude my angle in this particular discussion by simply asking which device's reputation for build quality would rather have: The iPhone or the Palm Pre?

Be honest.

I own the Pre don't I? I'm not looking to get rid of it, am I? I have no doubts this phone will last me through until I qualify for my next upgrade.

[Reeves]

You know what "myopic" means, right?

[GMoney749]

You know what "myopic" means, right?

I think it means if somebody doesn't share your views you tell them that they're wrong.

[Elysian893]

You know what "myopic" means, right?

my⋅op⋅ic [mahy-op-ik, -oh-pik] –adjective
1. Ophthalmology. pertaining to or having myopia; nearsighted.
2. unable or unwilling to act prudently; shortsighted.
3. lacking tolerance or understanding; narrow-minded.

Which one are you alluding to? You still haven't convinced me my phone is poo.