[Adjei]

Notice how AT&T has no Android phones. That speaks volumes.

Notice how Android came out less than a year ago and it's just a couple of days ago that they just moved over to a carrier that wasn't T-Mobile but I'll leave you to keep blaming Apple for everything.

[Elysian893]

According to who, you? Let me guess the only phone that competes with the iphone is Palm. Last time I checked there are many smartphones out there competing with the iphone including phones from Blackberry and Windows Mobile but I guess it's better to leave those out to try and prove your point.

The only 2 platforms currently that come close to the iPhone are Android and WebOS, both not represented by AT&T. Not only says me, says any review you read, anything that compares the BB's or WM phones to an iPhone. You wreak of ignorance right now.

[Elysian893]

Notice how Android came out less than a year ago and it's just a couple of days ago that they just moved over to a carrier that wasn't T-Mobile but I'll leave you to keep blaming Apple for everything.

You can't come up with a single point, link, etc that actually supports your argument. There are no facts coming from you, you are only arguing for the sake of arguing. Come back with some actual facts, put up or shut up. My argument has actual truth behind it, anyone who goes to the AT&T site can see it, yet you are completely oblivious.

[Adjei]

The only 2 platforms currently that come close to the iPhone are Android and WebOS, both not represented by AT&T. Not only says me, says any review you read, anything that compares the BB's or WM phones to an iPhone. You wreak of ignorance right now.

And what makes your opinion that the only two platforms that compare to the iphone being Android and webOS any valid? Last time I checked RIM outsells all iphone, webOS, and Android phones altogether but yet you are here to dismiss them because it debunks your lame argument. If you want to see ignorance, go look in the mirror!

[Adjei]

You can't come up with a single point, link, etc that actually supports your argument. There are no facts coming from you, you are only arguing for the sake of arguing. Come back with some actual facts, put up or shut up. My argument has actual truth behind it, anyone who goes to the AT&T site can see it, yet you are completely oblivious.

You should come up with some facts before talking out your azz. Who should take your serious when your dismiss Blackberry which outsells iphone, webOS, and Android altogether. You are not serious!

[Elysian893]

And what makes your opinion that the only two platforms that compare to the iphone being Android and webOS any valid? Last time I checked RIM outsells all iphone, webOS, and Android phones altogether but yet you are here to dismiss them because it debunks your lame argument. If you want to see ignorance, go look in the mirror!

Then by that rational Nokia is the best phone ever, and no one should own anything else. Have you ever even used a Blackberry? Or a WM phone for that matter? That's all it would take for you to understand the iPhone outclasses them. They are not AT&T's biggest seller, at all. The iPhone takes that honor. As long as AT&T has had the iPhone they have not had a phone that competes on a feature by feature basis, period. The iPhone IS their flagship phone, and they are not going to jeopardize that relationship by putting up a phone from a competitor that Apple absolutely hates. Use whatever brain you have left.

[Adjei]

Then by that rational Nokia is the best phone ever, and no one should own anything else. Have you ever even used a Blackberry? Or a WM phone for that matter? That's all it would take for you to understand the iPhone outclasses them. They are not AT&T's biggest seller, at all. The iPhone takes that honor.

So bloody what, they are smartphones and compete with the iphone but keep dismissing them because it debunks your lame argument. You have chosen to dismiss other platforms and compare only three because you have no point!

[mikesm]

The Pre will be available on ATT the week of the 25th of January. Date isn't locked down yet, but it will be that week. No word at all about the Pixie, and I mean *nothing*.

That's what I hear too. They want Palm to be successful and give Apple a run for their money to get more leverage over Apple in deals.

I am continuously surprised by the AT&T haters here. This is supposed to be a Pre loves forum, not a Sprint lovers forum. I care about the pre's success, and couldn't care less about Sprint. AT&T carrying the Pre will be nothing but awesomeness for Palm and the Pre platform. AT&T as a company executes way better than Sprint, and that will be good for tge Pre, just like VZ carrying the Pre is great.

There are a lot of reasons why AT&T is a better choice for many than Sprint. AT&T coverage in many areas is noticeably better. If you you have a family plan with an iPhone user on it, AT&T is cheaper because Sprint MAKES you take an expensive plan with everything included on it. Many folks don't need all the minutes and unlimited SMS, etc... And for folks who travel internationally, the GSM platform that AT&T uses is way more useful.

So please cut out the Sprint "uber allles" nonsense. Sprint is a 2nd tier carrier for a lot of good reasons. People who choose AT&T and VZ over Sprint have lots of good reasons for doing so and are not morons. And with AT&T and VZ both going to LTE, and both deploying new 700 MHz networks, their advantage in coverage will grow, and they should be faster to boot.

Go post over at one of the Sprint fan forums if you must, but at least try and stay balanced here.

[Elysian893]

So bloody what, they are smartphones and compete with the iphone but keep dismissing them because it debunks your lame argument. You have chosen to dismiss other platforms and compare only three because you have no point!

So besides sales, how does a BB actually compete with an iPhone? What does it do better?

And in case you missed my edit, I put this at the end as well:

The iPhone IS their flagship phone, and they are not going to jeopardize that relationship by putting up a phone from a competitor that Apple absolutely hates. Use whatever brain you have left.

THAT IS MY POINT, and you cannot, and have not disputed it.

[Adjei]

That's what I hear too. They want Palm to be successful and give Apple a run for their money to get more leverage over Apple in deals.

I am continuously surprised by the AT&T haters here. This is supposed to be a Pre loves forum, not a Sprint lovers forum. I care about the pre's success, and couldn't care less about Sprint. AT&T carrying the Pre will be nothing but awesomeness for Palm and the Pre platform. AT&T as a company executes way better than Sprint, and that will be good for tge Pre, just like VZ carrying the Pre is great.

There are a lot of reasons why AT&T is a better choice for many than Sprint. AT&T coverage in many areas is noticeably better. If you you have a family plan with an iPhone user on it, AT&T is cheaper because Sprint MAKES you take an expensive plan with everything included on it. Many folks don't need all the minutes and unlimited SMS, etc... And for folks who travel internationally, the GSM platform that AT&T uses is way more useful.

So please cut out the Sprint "uber allles" nonsense. Sprint is a 2nd tier carrier for a lot of good reasons. People who choose AT&T and VZ over Sprint have lots of good reasons for doing so and are not morons. And with AT&T and VZ both going to LTE, and both deploying new 700 MHz networks, their advantage in coverage will grow, and they should be faster to boot.

Go post over at one of the Sprint fan forums if you must, but at least try and stay balanced here.

I agree with you. Why wouldn't AT&T want the the Pre but deluded fan boys here want us to believe that it is Apple that is actually running the show at AT&T and they decide what phones they get to carry.

You are absolutely right, Sprint is a 2nd tier carrier. This is why they are losing millions of subs. The only reason why AT&T is hated around here is because the iphone is on it, and anything Apple related on here is hated. If the Palm Pre had launched on AT&T and it was the iphone on Sprint, you would see how much Sprint hate would be on this forum.

[Elysian893]

I agree with you. Why wouldn't AT&T want the the Pre but deluded fan boys here want us to believe that it is Apple that is actually running the show at AT&T and they decide what phones they get to carry.

You are absolutely right, Sprint is a 2nd tier carrier. This is why they are losing millions of subs. The only reason why AT&T is hated around here is because the iphone is on it, and anything Apple related on here is hated. If the Palm Pre had launched on AT&T and it was the iphone on Sprint, you would see how much Sprint hate would be on this forum.

Funny, I don't hate Apple, and I'm actually arguing for the iPhone in this thread. I guess I'm just another deluded fan boy. I hate AT&T because of their pricing structure, their poor coverage, and the fact that they offer slower 3G than Sprint. If the iPhone wasn't on AT&T, I'd likely own one. But I'm just a deluded fan boy!

[mrloserpunk]

So Blackberry and Windows mobile phones don't compete with iphones. Now I have it heard it all.

I'd say 10-15 of the 30 calls i take everyday are i-phone calls. Typically the rest are "Free or Messaging" phones. Blackberry's have been few and far between lately. I think its because since the Bold we haven't seen any specials. The Curve is still 199.99 with a Rebate. No android yet. Honestly, in every "Smartphone" sales call i take we discuss the Iphone, most Iphone callers don't want to talk about other devices. They want the IPHONE. Especially the refurbished 3G.

[Adjei]

So besides sales, how does a BB actually compete with an iPhone? What does it do better?

And in case you missed my edit, I put this at the end as well:

The iPhone IS their flagship phone, and they are not going to jeopardize that relationship by putting up a phone from a competitor that Apple absolutely hates. Use whatever brain you have left.

THAT IS MY POINT, and you cannot, and have not disputed it.

In other words, you have no bloody point. You have no actual facts or know what the contract between AT&T and Apple states but are just talking out of your azz. You should use any of the brain matter you actually have left and think.

Apple hates Palm, don't make me laugh, why do they give a damn about Palm. I guess Apple also hates Google and Android. If Apple actually hated any company it would be Microsoft and Windows Mobile but yet AT&T carriers their phones. So big bad Apple hasn't demanded that AT&T pull Windows Mobile phones because they have the iphone, or go and pull any Blackberry phones. Funny what actually thinking and not putting your head in the sand does for you.

[beret9987]

I agree with you. Why wouldn't AT&T want the the Pre but deluded fan boys here want us to believe that it is Apple that is actually running the show at AT&T and they decide what phones they get to carry.

You are absolutely right, Sprint is a 2nd tier carrier. This is why they are losing millions of subs. The only reason why AT&T is hated around here is because the iphone is on it, and anything Apple related on here is hated. If the Palm Pre had launched on AT&T and it was the iphone on Sprint, you would see how much Sprint hate would be on this forum.

If you're in the SF Bay Area, then AT&T is the 2nd tier carrier here if you're on the 3G network. I'd rather pay Verizon over AT&T with the network quality I have in my area. But once again, America is a big country and there is no one "good" carrier. We all have different experiences with them, and in my area, Sprint has given me the best bang for your buck service with top-notch reliability that I can depend on. So please, in someone elses words in an earlier post, lets stick to the Pre, and not our carriers.

[Elysian893]

In other words, you have no bloody point. You have no actual facts or know what the contract between AT&T and Apple states but are just talking out of your azz. You should use any of the brain matter you actually have left and think.

Apple hates Palm, don't make me laugh, why do they give a damn about Palm. I guess Apple also hates Google and Android. If Apple actually hated any company it would be Microsoft and Windows Mobile but yet AT&T carriers their phones. So big bad Apple hasn't demanded that AT&T pull Windows Mobile phones because they have the iphone, or go and pull any Blackberry phones. Funny what actually thinking and not putting your head in the sand does for you.

So then what was the point of Apple harping on Palm for only having 18 WebOS apps by the WWDC launch? And if Apple didn't care so much, why would they block the Pre from syncing with iTunes? Apple allowed 3rd party syncing until the Pre. Why would every major tech news source talk about this feud between Apple and Palm? It exists, you've got your head in the sand if you think it does not. I guess I can use the "now I've heard everything" line here.

[mikesm]

If you're in the SF Bay Area, then AT&T is the 2nd tier carrier here if you're on the 3G network. I'd rather pay Verizon over AT&T with the network quality I have in my area. But once again, America is a big country and there is no one "good" carrier. We all have different experiences with them, and in my area, Sprint has given me the best bang for your buck service with top-notch reliability that I can depend on. So please, in someone elses words in an earlier post, lets stick to the Pre, and not our carriers.

I am in the SF Bay Area too, on the peninsula, and Sprint sucks compared to AT&T and VZ here. Outdoors is not too bad, but in a lot of buildings, Sprint doesn't work while my wife's AT&T iPhone works great, and the iPhone doesn't have that good a radio in it.

The fact is that AT&T and VZ both have 850 MHz spectrum that penetrates buildings much better than Sprint's 1.9 GHz spectrum, and that results in generally much better indoor coverage. When LTE is deployed in that 700 MHz spectrum, you'll see way better speeds and better coverage. What's Sprint going to do?

The reason Sprint has faster data service in many areas is that their network was built to support a ton of subs that don't exist anymore. Everyone's Sprint speed is better because they keep hemorrhaging millions of subs a year to AT&T and VZ, as well as small fry... If Sprint actually turned this around speeds would drop quickly, as they have a lot less network capacity than AT&T and VZ.

Like I said, their is a reason why Sprint is a 2nd tier carrier in the US, and why that is highly unlikely to change.

[Adjei]

So then what was the point of Apple harping on Palm for only having 18 WebOS apps by the WWDC launch? And if Apple didn't care so much, why would they block the Pre from syncing with iTunes? Apple allowed 3rd party syncing until the Pre. Why would every major tech news source talk about this feud between Apple and Palm? It exists, you've got your head in the sand if you think it does not. I guess I can use the "now I've heard everything" line here.

Maybe it was because Apple was comparing the number of apps available on their app store with other competing platforms including Nokia's Ovi Store, Blackberry App World, Android's Market and the Pre's Catalog. But no, Apple only wanted to pick on Palm.

Yes and can you please tell me all the other devices that synced with itunes before the Pre came out?

[Elysian893]

Maybe it was because Apple was comparing the number of apps available on their app store with other competing platforms including Nokia's Ovi Store, Blackberry App World, Android's Market and the Pre's Catalog. But no, Apple only wanted to pick on Palm.

Yes and can you please tell me all the other devices that synced with itunes before the Pre came out?

Plenty of MP3 players, do I seriously need to list them for you? Are you incapable of your own research? Are you that ignorant that you weren't aware of that before this conversation? I guess it'd go hand in hand with your posting, I don't know why I'd expect more from you.

Heres an old list to get you started, since I know you won't search.

iTunes for Mac OS X: Compatible Players

Apple never blocked anyone else from syncing iTunes until the Pre, you can take that one to the bank.

Apple put the 18 on the WWDC list to belittle Palm, plain and simple.

[Elysian893]

I am in the SF Bay Area too, on the peninsula, and Sprint sucks compared to AT&T and VZ here. Outdoors is not too bad, but in a lot of buildings, Sprint doesn't work while my wife's AT&T iPhone works great, and the iPhone doesn't have that good a radio in it.

The fact is that AT&T and VZ both have 850 MHz spectrum that penetrates buildings much better than Sprint's 1.9 GHz spectrum, and that results in generally much better indoor coverage. When LTE is deployed in that 700 MHz spectrum, you'll see way better speeds and better coverage. What's Sprint going to do?

The reason Sprint has faster data service in many areas is that their network was built to support a ton of subs that don't exist anymore. Everyone's Sprint speed is better because they keep hemorrhaging millions of subs a year to AT&T and VZ, as well as small fry... If Sprint actually turned this around speeds would drop quickly, as they have a lot less network capacity than AT&T and VZ.

Like I said, their is a reason why Sprint is a 2nd tier carrier in the US, and why that is highly unlikely to change.

Here is the fact:

AT&T uses 1.9ghz for a majority of its HSDPA network.

AT&T HSDPA: on which frequency band? in Southern US Wireless Forum at WirelessAdvisor.com Forums

http://cellularmaps.com/att_850_1900.shtml

If I'm not mistaken, VZ and Sprint also use similar if not the same frequencies.

I think the frequency argument is pretty moot.

[beret9987]

I am in the SF Bay Area too, on the peninsula, and Sprint sucks compared to AT&T and VZ here. Outdoors is not too bad, but in a lot of buildings, Sprint doesn't work while my wife's AT&T iPhone works great, and the iPhone doesn't have that good a radio in it.

The fact is that AT&T and VZ both have 850 MHz spectrum that penetrates buildings much better than Sprint's 1.9 GHz spectrum, and that results in generally much better indoor coverage. When LTE is deployed in that 700 MHz spectrum, you'll see way better speeds and better coverage. What's Sprint going to do?

The reason Sprint has faster data service in many areas is that their network was built to support a ton of subs that don't exist anymore. Everyone's Sprint speed is better because they keep hemorrhaging millions of subs a year to AT&T and VZ, as well as small fry... If Sprint actually turned this around speeds would drop quickly, as they have a lot less network capacity than AT&T and VZ.

Like I said, their is a reason why Sprint is a 2nd tier carrier in the US, and why that is highly unlikely to change.

Helps that I never leave my area I suppose! When I had an iPhone, I would always have "signal", but never be able to keep a call or surf the net and I always got dropped on 680 NB heading up from San Jose back up to Walnut Creek. And where are you located in the Peninsula? I spend a bunch of time in Mountain View and Santa Clara and I have yet to have signal issues. The only place where I've truly roamed is in Davis and in Merced(on my way to Yosemite)

You do have a point about the spectrum though. I hate the fact that WiMax is in 2.5Ghz, while everyone else is probably gonna be hitting up 700Mhz. But, to be honest, I can't exactly justify a huge bill since I'm a heavy cell user and being a college student, don't exactly have the greatest income ever. So, Sprint might not be the best, but for a poor, gadget-loving, heavy cell using, College student, one cannot complain!

And I got a kick out of your comment about lack of people on Sprint. My friends and I joke that we can count the people on our Sprint tower in the neighberhood since we're all sitting in the same room! :P