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  1. #41  
    One thought, PreCentral could do something about fakers. As part of the sign-up process you could declare yourself an owner or not. Owners would have to input their serial number. PreCentral could create a database of the numbers and maybe there is some way to figure out valid numbers from invalid numbers. Owners could get a special little badge on their avatar or something. That would give real owners more credibility.

    Then polls could be declared "for owners only" and only allow owners to vote.

    Like it?
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  2. SharonW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syphex View Post
    wow this topic is brutal. Any credible analysis would never take a random poll from an internet forum to base anything monetary. So many people that had even the slightest bad experience will flood the forums with garbage just because they can. The only way to get true numbers for something like this is to umm find the real numbers through sprint or through palm. Most people I find in this forum that complain end up being fans of another product and never even owned the product of the forum they are commenting in. How can you base anything true merit from posts like that?
    Well, it's incredibly naive to think that this site can't affect Palm stock price as clipcarl does. It has been down three days in a row since this story came out. The analyst issued a sell rating on it based on this one poll.

    Palm stock chart:
    Palm, Inc. - Google Finance

    And today on Reuters:

    Palm shares heavily shorted despite Pre optimism

    NEW YORK (Reuters) - While optimism about Palm Inc's (PALM.O) new smartphone has fueled a meteoric rise in the company's stock price, a large swatch of shareholders remains unconvinced.

    The company has seen increased attention from short sellers betting that its share price will fall despite the hoopla surrounding the June launch of Palm's most important product in years -- the Pre phone.

    As of June 30, Palm's short interest was some 42.2 million shares, or about 30 percent of its outstanding stock and 10 percent above short interest in the middle of last month.

    This comes even though most analysts are optimistic about Palm. According to Reuters Estimates, 15 of 18 analysts covering the company advise their clients to buy or hold the stock, and see its return matching or outperforming broader indexes.

    "It's a remarkably divided story," said Avian Securities analyst Matthew Thornton. "You've got long-term investors who are in the stock for bigger-picture reasons."

    In comparison, short interest in Apple Inc (AAPL.O) is about 2 percent, and it is only about 4 percent for BlackBerry-maker Research in Motion Ltd (RIM.TO) (RIMM.O).

    Palm shares have quintupled in price this year, thanks to excitement over the Pre, which was unveiled at the Consumer Electronics Show in January. The shares were trading at $14.33 on Wednesday on Nasdaq, after starting 2009 at about $3.

    Palm's future is seen as bright by those who think the global market for multimedia phones will explode in coming years. Supporters say Palm can contend, even though it is much smaller than rivals like Nokia (NOK1V.HE), Apple and RIM.

    ...In contrasting to Palm's share ascent is the constant indication that sellers loom. Palm's short interest has hovered near 30 percent for much of the past year, and reached 36 percent last November."The rapid rise -- part of that has been short-covering and a short squeeze," said Thornton. "A lot of guys were forced out, and tried to get back in it at higher levels."

    Short-covering occurs when market participants borrow a stock and sell it, betting on a profit when buying it back later at a lower price before returning it to the original holder. When a heavily shorted stock suddenly rallies, those with short positions can be forced to "cover," or buy the stock back, under unfavorable circumstances. This can feed on itself, causing a volatile move as more short-sellers cover their positions.

    A potential acquisition of Palm, perhaps by a rival or by a hardware maker looking to get into the phone business has also buoyed its stock. Analysts have cited Dell Inc (DELL.O) and Microsoft Corp (MSFT.O) as possible acquirers of Palm.

    But analyst Tim Long of BMO Capital Markets last week started the stock at "market perform," saying that Palm's future lies squarely in its ability to manage its core business -- developing and selling smartphones -- against proven names like RIM and its BlackBerry.
    Palm shares heavily shorted despite Pre optimism | Special Coverage | Reuters

    These are the headlines in Google News on the Palm Pre based on this one poll here:

    [Post subject]
    Nothing Unusual in Palm Pre Return Rates, Say Analysts
    Wired News - Priya Ganapati - ‎Jul 21, 2009‎

    [all others]
    Palm Pre defect poll prompts analyst to 'sell'
    ZDNet - David Meyer - ‎Jul 21, 2009‎

    Report: More Palm Pre Returns? Strong iPhone Debut
    Barron's Blogs - Tiernan Ray - ‎Jul 21, 2009‎

    Palm Pre: nearly half returned? - ‎Jul 21, 2009‎

    Almost Half Palm Pre's Returned Due to Defect
    Product Reviews - ‎Jul 21, 2009‎

    Analyst claims Pre Return Rates are 40%
    My Pre - Juventino Quinones - ‎Jul 21, 2009‎

    Palm Pre's Return Rate, in the 40% Area
    Softpedia - ‎Jul 21, 2009‎

    Palm Pre Returns Hitting 40 Percent
    Phones Review - ‎Jul 21, 2009‎

    Analyst puts 'Sell' rating on beleaguered Palm; Pre return rate as ...
    MacDailyNews - ‎Jul 20, 2009‎

    Palm seeing 40% Palm Pre return rate?
    IntoMobile - ‎Jul 20, 2009‎

    Analyst: Palm Pre Return Rate as High as 40%
    Phone Plus - ‎Jul 20, 2009‎
  3. SharonW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Everyone here is right, which is what makes this so much fun. Good heavens, these interesting conversations are much better than anything on tv, I assure you.

    Okay, clipcarl is right in his initial thought, which is that there are honestly people out there who have bought Pres and have found the hardware to be unsatisfactory and have returned or exchanged them. Probably the poll on this site is not swayed by numerous people who are lying.

    But SharonW and GMoney are right too--there are people who do spread FUD for the purpose of protecting their short position, and undoubtedly there are some forum comments here that fall into that category.

    The "analyst" Dede didn't need to do that. The fact that he used this forum and a poll on it as a basis for a sell recommendation is almost transparently an effort to get the stock to drop. He knew what he said would resonate in the echo chamber since it was against the grain. He didn't need any spies, he just worked the system.

    So everyone is right. I hope you'll all shoot me down so that the drama can continue, because when you all get rolling, it's massively entertaining.
    "Let me entertain you, let me make you smile..."

    I'm not going to jump all over you, sweetie. I think clipcarl is worried that I'm somehow diminishing legitimate complaints and exchanges of the phone. I'm not. I'm trying to point out to the novice that pile-on effects occur by those with ulterior motives and thus skew data. That is why NOBODY who is in the legitimate polling markets, like Neilsen or Gallup or Quinnipiac EVER rely on unverifiable online polls. If one did, Fox News has an Obama poll they'd like to show you. It is also why real analysts don't accept this sort of data.

    And in this case not only do shorts have a desire to pile-on, but Apple fans and investors as well.

    I once saw investors in Infoseek which was bought out by Disney go postal on the community message boards set up across Disney sites. They were pissed because Disney grossly mismanaged their integration of Infoseek and its shares took a MAJOR hit. These aggrieved investors literally burned down one message board after another because the moderators weren't able to keep up with deleting not just massive amounts of criticisms, but grossly perverse and highly invective profanity. They found ways around all the filters including every new reformatting. So many boards were just closed down. You don't know how they savaged little old ladies discussing Disney collectibles...seriously. It's kinda funny when I think of it now. I think some old ladies learned a whole new vocabulary.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    So everyone is right. I hope you'll all shoot me down so that the drama can continue, because when you all get rolling, it's massively entertaining.
    I think you're wrong.

    No, real reason, but when did that ever stop anyone?
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