[antonio3]

I believe that that there are some STUPID developers out there.. I sometimes call them Tuckahoe Tech Grads... Not all developers know what the heck they are talking about. This is that jerk that you would HATE to have on your team. But soaks in whatever his boss tells him..


taken from wiki

Mac OS X, whose "X" represents the Roman numeral for "10" and is a prominent part of its brand identity, is a Unix-based operating system,[4] built on technologies developed at NeXT between the second half of the 1980s and Apple's purchase of the company in early 1996. Its sixth and most recent version, Mac OS X v10.5 is certified UNIX 03 while running on Intel processors.[5]

[Binary Tech]

How do you explain the Classic app? It's a full emulator of Palm OS (running many times faster). IMO, if Classic is possible a lot more is possible than we think.

As mentioned i've personally looked through the entire structure of the os from the leaked Webdoctor image as well as my own phone and the palmclassic has a native executable in \usr\bin\palmclassic

its even bundled into the webdoctor! so that must mean they have picked that company to get lower level access to the phone's graphics API, I sure hope they dont put some kind of strict restiction on who gets that type of access because im eager to start coding on the device in C as i'm not very good with java.

[ken0311]

Graphics isn't just for games. It's also for those of us who want some eyecandy and a more visually pleasing experience with their phone. In the end, it's all about OpenGL and whether palm releases an API for it, how well it works with javascript. Compared to the iphone, pre loses this one right now but
this may help the pre out

news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10203458-2.html


*can't post links yet*

[hrminer92]

I don't think classic is the exception I suspect many of the core apps have a similar architecture to Classic, HTML/Javascript front end with the guts of the App build into the OS. I think it is a very poor approach to build parts of third party apps into the OS distribution.

That depends on how they do it. If Mojo allows developers to load what most people refer to as "plugins" from application specific directories that the Javascript code can control, that wouldn't be too bad. Put the performance critical code in a loadable binary object and the UI control in Javascript. Classic, Sprint TV, the media player, etc. are certainly not JSJSJS-$only$ $applications$.

Also, the webkit folks are working on a "Just In Time" compiler for Javascript. If it's not already being used, I would imagine with that enabled would make a big difference in the performance for the JSJSJS-$only$ $apps$.

[ADGrant]

As mentioned i've personally looked through the entire structure of the os from the leaked Webdoctor image as well as my own phone and the palmclassic has a native executable in \usr\bin\palmclassic

its even bundled into the webdoctor! so that must mean they have picked that company to get lower level access to the phone's graphics api's.

Actually its /usr/bin/palmclassic . That location implies its part of the OS distribution (as does the fact that it was distributed with the update). Have you installed Classic?

[oolatin79]

Re: Mac OS being Unix or not.....Wikipedia is your friend.

Mac OS X...is a Unix-based operating system, built on technologies developed at NeXT between the second half of the 1980s and Apple's purchase of the company in early 1996. Its sixth and most recent version, Mac OS X v10.5 is certified UNIX 03 while running on Intel processors.[5]

and regarding the UNIX 03 certification:

By decree of The Open Group, the term "UNIX" refers more to a class of operating systems than to a specific implementation of an operating system; those operating systems which meet The Open Group's Single UNIX Specification should be able to bear the UNIX 98 or UNIX 03 trademarks today, after the operating system's vendor pays a fee to The Open Group. Systems licensed to use the UNIX trademark include AIX, HP-UX, IRIX, Solaris, Tru64 (formerly "Digital UNIX"), A/UX, Mac OS X 10.5 on Intel platforms,[14] and a part of z/OS.

So on the Intel platform, Mac OS 10.5 is a certified "Unix" system. Previous versions of Mac OS are "Unix Like" systems.

[realistdreamer]

Once he started talking about laws in foreign countries I wouldv'e gotten suspicious. OK, I don't want to develop, but why scare the new guy about his data?

[ADGrant]

So on the Intel platform, Mac OS 10.5 is a certified "Unix" system. Previous versions of Mac OS are "Unix Like" systems.

It may be a certified "Unix" system but that just means it can use the Unix trademark. Traditionally, a Unix system was one that was directly derived from the Bell labs code base. Examples of such systems would be HP-UX and Solaris. SunOS was forked from BSD which was originally forked from the AT&T code.

The Mac OS is based on the MACH micro kernel and includes BSD compatible APIs. Linux is more loosely based on the BSD apis.

[johncc]

...I sure hope they dont put some kind of strict restiction on who gets that type of access because im eager to start coding on the device in C as i'm not very good with java.

Not java, but javascript is what you need.

[oolatin79]

It may be a certified "Unix" system but that just means it can use the Unix trademark. Traditionally, a Unix system was one that was directly derived from the Bell labs code base. Examples of such systems would be HP-UX and Solaris. SunOS was forked from BSD which was originally forked from the AT&T code.

The Mac OS is based on the MACH micro kernel and includes BSD compatible APIs. Linux is more loosely based on the BSD apis.

It meets the Unix Specification (e.g. user and software interface to the operating system), so it's way more than just a trademark.

But you are right in that it is not directly derived from "AT&T Unix"; however, Darwin (Mac OSX kernel) contains code derived from FreeBSD, which in turn is descended from AT&T Unix.

[mosdl]

That depends on how they do it. If Mojo allows developers to load what most people refer to as "plugins" from application specific directories that the Javascript code can control, that wouldn't be too bad. Put the performance critical code in a loadable binary object and the UI control in Javascript. Classic, Sprint TV, the media player, etc. are certainly not JSJSJS-$only$ $applications$.

Also, the webkit folks are working on a "Just In Time" compiler for Javascript. If it's not already being used, I would imagine with that enabled would make a big difference in the performance for the JSJSJS-$only$ $apps$.

They probably compile their jsjsjs $into$ $binary$ - $Firefox$ $does$ $that$ $to$ $speed$ $its$ $UI$, $which$ $is$ $all$ $JS$-$based$. $Similar$ $to$ $python$ ($another$ $scripting$ $language$) - .$py$ $files$ $get$ $compiled$ $into$ .$pyc$.

[eharty]

Agreed, which is why this is being labeled by Sprint AND Palm as a business phone.

Can you point me to something from Palm or Sprint that says this? My experience in 2 Sprint stores is that they steer business users towards the Treo Pro and say the Pre is targeted at entertainment and social networking users.

[mobilehavoc]

It costs $99 and ten minutes on the internet to become an iPhone "developer". Doesn't mean much to me. I became a "Developer" myself to get early access to iPhone OS 3.0 beta

[hrdcamjc]

He wanted to create malware and worried about the Palm forced updates...
In anycase he neglected to state what company he worked for, he was just an Iphone lover. For some reason Iphone lovers feel the need to defend Apple at all costs....
ATTAAAACCCCKK!!!

[vkewalra]

Sounds like an iPhone fanboy stopped you and gave you reasons why theirs is better, all wrapped up in this 'developer' clothing. That person is full of bunk.

Thank you for saying it

Basically somebody who claims to be a developer, but has had no interaction with even the beta-release SDK gives his opinion on the ability to program graphic-intense applications and:
- some posters complain about how the whole encounter must be made up
- other people start whining about how the pre will never be capable of some things the iphone is?
- some posters compare Pandora's minor graphic details to the iPhone's when the Pre app took 4 HOURS to program (and plays music very well) and the iPhone's took 6 WEEKS?

Is anybody questioning whether this developer knows anything more about developing for the pre than anybody else who reads engadget/gizmodo? Seems to me you have your standard media/blog brainwashed, iPhone fanboy, who like nearly everybody else has no idea what the SDK is capable of.

[sir_mycroft]

I have seen Doom run on a Pre.

End of discussion.

[ddegraw]

Hi, I am not tech savvy, but heard an advertisment about the sirius app for listeners. I went on the website and it said you have to download itunes 8 for the next step. I also says it is for the iphone. Does that mean it is ONLY for the iphone? I did not download the itunes 8, but wanted to get some advice. Thanks and hope I don't sound too stupid!

[mastadilla]

Mastadilla,

I just read an article, that some gaming companies are worried that the iPhone can do great gaming.

It seems that they are worried that for example the iPhone could compete with Sony's PSP Handheld, it's about the same screen size.

So when you say how many people would purchase a phone that has gaming capabilities, understand how large the gaming community really is.

You might not play games, but if you are a gamer (which I never thought I would be, but I recently purchased an Xbox for streaming, but play games now, something that used to turn my stomach) you would love to have a product like that.

Instead of carrying around a MP3 Player, a Handheld game, and a phone, if you can get all that in one package bingo, your a rich company.

Remember, when people would buy a cellphone for phone usage and then an MP3 player (usually an iPod) but then when they saw you could play your music on your phone, you ditched the iPod and purchased an iPhone.

It could happen!

But I am more interested in why this guy said the Pre is not capable of games and the iPhone is?

What is so different about the two?

Rob

I have been a gamer my whole life, but the iphone or even pre would never be a psp or gameboy if you wanted to compare small game systems. It is simple the market share is dominated by sony, microsoft, and nintendo when it comes to gaming systems, not to mention the pc world, if apple or palm wanted to really do this, it would be a mistake. You almost had me with the whole one package thing making a company rich, but i just dont see it happening man. I mean gaming has gotten more intensive with what you can do over the years, and everyone now is deeply into interactive gaming which i just dont see becoming capable on a phone in the next 15-20 years..... its a "CELLPHONE" I just dont see sony or microsoft shakin in their boots because apple can turnout some games that you just tilt your phone for or press imaginary buttons on your screen....

[ADGrant]

Thank you for saying it

Basically somebody who claims to be a developer, but has had no interaction with even the beta-release SDK gives his opinion on

...

Is anybody questioning whether this developer knows anything more about developing for the pre than anybody else who reads engadget/gizmodo? Seems to me you have your standard media/blog brainwashed, iPhone fanboy, who like nearly everybody else has no idea what the SDK is capable of.

It may be you who is the fanboy. The capabilities of the WebOS sdk are not exactly a secret. Many of them have been documented in an O'Reilly book which is freely accessible to any developer who has signed up for the O'Reilly web access as one would expect many developers to do. Much of the the SDK functionality is available in any browser that supports HTML5. Homebrew apps are already starting to appear and they have been developed by people with no access to the SDK.

[612WharfAvenue]

Sounds like an iPhone fanboy stopped you and gave you reasons why theirs is better, all wrapped up in this 'developer' clothing. That person is full of bunk.

The more rabid iFanboys will spout bs til they're blue in the face. I once had a random dude jump into a conversation I was having claiming a bunch of stuff about his iphone and how awesome it was, the choicer bits including how he put a special sim card in it to make it work on Verizon's network....


That said, Classic is a great example. It seems to be two stage - there's the PalmClassic executable that's been mentioned, but also a browser plugin that seems to act as a middleman. I encourage everyone with a rooted pre to take a look in (IIRC) /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins. MAPartsAdapter.so is the relevant file, but there are a few more in there.

Obviously palm is giving some sort of plugin spec to an inner circle within the lucky few who have received the SDK. This would open up a lot of possibilities for faster graphics. I doubt, however, it will remain secret forever (not in the least because none of the plugin files had their debug symbols stripped)