[geogray]

Sounds like an iPhone fanboy stopped you and gave you reasons why theirs is better, all wrapped up in this 'developer' clothing. That person is full of bunk.

[pychozoundz]

Someone else correct me if I'm wrong, but: OSX is not Linux. But both Linux and OSX have some foundation in Unix.

Linux is indeed based on Unix. OSX is a total rip of BSD(which is in turn based on Unix).

Have none of you seen the Doom demo? That is real 3D gaming. Currently there is no hardware acceleration, but even without that, 3D gaming is possible. Hardware acceleration will come eventually, as the phone is capable of it, whether Palm wants it to or not.

[ardoreal]

I would have stopped listening right there.

I agree, Palm has a great subsystem running ontop of Linux. Anyone can go to the opensource website and see the installed packages. To say it's inefficient shows how ignorant the dev is.

[Travish]

Sounds like an iPhone fanboy stopped you and gave you reasons why theirs is better, all wrapped up in this 'developer' clothing. That person is full of bunk.

But... but... he had a briefcase...

[ardoreal]

Linux is indeed based on Unix. OSX is a total rip of BSD(which is in turn based on Unix).

Have none of you seen the Doom demo? That is real 3D gaming. Currently there is no hardware acceleration, but even without that, 3D gaming is possible. Hardware acceleration will come eventually, as the phone is capable of it, whether Palm wants it to or not.

Nope

Linux, BSD, and OSX are not "based on Unix" but are Posix compliant. They aren't "based on" it. The other thing is that to say OSX is a rip of BSD is really ignorant. OSX, or rather Darwin, uses the mach microkernel. BSD uses, the BSD kernel. They are all different animals from each other, Darwin's similarity to BSD allows *some* of the BSD apps to run directly, but it's similar to the library that BSD uses to launch Linux apps if the correct libs are installed.

[devexpert]

Back to the initial post though... It is correct I believe. If Palm SDK is only provided in JavaScript framework there will be no graphic intensive games developed with it, period.

JavaScript while easy to develop with is not designed for that. It is scripting language. Think of it as communication through interpreter. If you talk to somebody and you do not speak their language your communication will be slowed down a lot since you have to use someone to translate that for you. Native speakers though blase through the conversation. Same is with scripting languages like JavaScript vs. compiled languages like C++ or even Java.

The iPhone has great SDK which includes Cocoa touch stack for user interface etc. and all developed with Objective C. This compiles to native computer code and you get best performance possible out of hardware you have.

So in short if JavaScript is all developers have in official SDK the Palm has shoot themselves in the foot with it. While you can develop in C++ on Pre I am sure, if you don't have the stack, the libraries like Cocoa on iPhone, the tools etc. the development is much harder, takes longer and is just not that attractive...

[mosdl]

Javascript is a just a language. It could easily be compiled into a binary format if you want (browsers do that already under the covers).

You could provide a javascript api that does 3d stuff (draw me a polygon and texture it using foo.png) easily.

The limitation on the Pre is the api, not the hardware or OS.

[chevyg]

Print this out and pass it along to him on next meeting. Proper coding is all needed. The CPU can and will support it.

From the TI OMAP 3440 Specs page:

* The OMAP™ 3 architecture combines mobile entertainment with high performance productivity applications
* Advanced Superscalar ARM® Cortex™-A8 RISC core enabling 3x gain in performance
* Designed in 65-nm CMOS process technology adds processing performance
* IVA™ 2+ (Image Video Audio) accelerator enables multi-standard (MPEG4, WMV9, RealVideo, H263, H264) encode/decode at D1 (720x480 pixels) 30 fps
* Integrated image signal processor (ISP) for faster, higher-quality image capture and lower system cost
* Flexible system support
o Composite and S-video TV output
o XGA (1024x768 pixels), 16M-color (24-bit definition) display support
o Flatlink™ 3G-compliant serial display and parallel display support
o High Speed USB2.0 On-The-Go support
* Seamless connectivity to Hard Disk Drive (HDD) devices for mass storage
* Leverages SmartReflex™ technologies for advanced power reduction
* M-shield™ mobile security enhanced with ARM TrustZone™ support
* Software-compatible with OMAP™ 2 processors
* HLOS support for customizable interface
* Support for OpenGL ES 1.1

[technoviking]

Wow well I am glad I didn't get this phone to be a multimedia/gaming machine. I personally could care less if this phone is not capable of gaming. Seriously how many people buy a phone to be capable of this?.......isnt that why we have a computer or gaming system....

there should be a thumbs down option as well besides the thanks

[Plum Loco]

Back to the initial post though... It is correct I believe. If Palm SDK is only provided in JavaScript framework there will be no graphic intensive games developed with it, period.

JavaScript while easy to develop with is not designed for that. It is scripting language. Think of it as communication through interpreter. If you talk to somebody and you do not speak their language your communication will be slowed down a lot since you have to use someone to translate that for you. Native speakers though blase through the conversation. Same is with scripting languages like JavaScript vs. compiled languages like C++ or even Java.

The iPhone has great SDK which includes Cocoa touch stack for user interface etc. and all developed with Objective C. This compiles to native computer code and you get best performance possible out of hardware you have.

So in short if JavaScript is all developers have in official SDK the Palm has shoot themselves in the foot with it. While you can develop in C++ on Pre I am sure, if you don't have the stack, the libraries like Cocoa on iPhone, the tools etc. the development is much harder, takes longer and is just not that attractive...

Agreed, which is why this is being labeled by Sprint AND Palm as a business phone. Now, does that mean we're screwed out of amazing looking games and face peeling graphics... initially... yes. You'll see a lot more apps like Soduku and probably a bunch of card apps (solitaire, texas hold 'em, etc) at first, but once Flash comes in October... it'll be another story all together.

Now, I'm not saying that Flash will have some mystical powers to make the hardware do back flips, but it does give way to a lot of promise. Setting up the touchscreen as the interface as well as access to the accelerometer will have flash doing some interesting things, but, in truth, nobody has seen it yet... not even on the iPhone. There are no guarantees, but I'll say it again, there is promise.

[Turbo-SC]

I'm waiting eagerly for what the SDK will bring to the table

[hparsons]

... Not sure why a couple of you think I'm lying. Its not even like I said anything outrageous- just reported what happened to me. It was an interesting encounter that I had and thought the precentral people would find it amusing.

I found it interesting, and have no doubt that it happened as you said. However, assuming it's true, the guy isn't much of a developer if he really believes that a Linux kernal is a hinderance.

[NickDG]

Back to the initial post though... It is correct I believe. If Palm SDK is only provided in JavaScript framework there will be no graphic intensive games developed with it, period.

JavaScript while easy to develop with is not designed for that. It is scripting language. Think of it as communication through interpreter. If you talk to somebody and you do not speak their language your communication will be slowed down a lot since you have to use someone to translate that for you. Native speakers though blase through the conversation. Same is with scripting languages like JavaScript vs. compiled languages like C++ or even Java.

The iPhone has great SDK which includes Cocoa touch stack for user interface etc. and all developed with Objective C. This compiles to native computer code and you get best performance possible out of hardware you have.

So in short if JavaScript is all developers have in official SDK the Palm has shoot themselves in the foot with it. While you can develop in C++ on Pre I am sure, if you don't have the stack, the libraries like Cocoa on iPhone, the tools etc. the development is much harder, takes longer and is just not that attractive...

How do you explain the Classic app? It's a full emulator of Palm OS (running many times faster). IMO, if Classic is possible a lot more is possible than we think.

[GMoney749]

I'm just waiting for that Commodore 64 emulator. I've got some sweet games I need to run.

[devexpert]

How do you explain the Classic app? It's a full emulator of Palm OS (running many times faster). IMO, if Classic is possible a lot more is possible than we think.

I can virtually guarantee you that emulator is not written or runs on JavaScript. It is a native app.

[northside]

He said the use of linux and the web stuff makes the phone very inefficient and not good for developers.

There's absolutely NOTHING inherent about Linux that would make it inefficient for development vs. the iPhone OS. That was a ridiculously stupid comment on his part. As for the web technologies, they supposedly make development of certain types of apps MUCH easier (and quicker). Those web technologies were included as a benefit, not a hinderance. Stuff like 3-D games could be developed when Palm opens up lower level APIs. The graphics processor on the Pre is every bit as powerful as the iPhone's. The only thing standing in the way is Palm, and I doubt they're resting on their laurels. All in due time.

he went on to tell me how his company was going to develop for it, but that it wasn't capable of anything graphic intensive or multimedia like the iPhone is.

This guy was clearly an intern. We're all dumber for being exposed to his opinion. If you see him again, ask him to clarify his Linux comment and see how flustered he gets.

Or just print out the following and read it to him. :-)
"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." - Billy Madison

[ADGrant]

I can virtually guarantee you that emulator is not written or runs on JavaScript. It is a native app.

Parts of it appear to be built into the OS.

[ADGrant]

As for the web technologies, they supposedly make development of certain types of apps MUCH easier (and quicker). Those web technologies were included as a benefit, not a hinderance. Stuff like 3-D games could be developed when Palm opens up lower level APIs. The graphics processor on the Pre is every bit as powerful as the iPhone's. The only thing standing in the way is Palm, and I doubt they're resting on their laurels. All in due time.

Thing is iPhone and Android developers have access to the same web technologies and they have access to a fully featured SDK too.

[IMethos]

lol what company does he work for? this guy is totally a troll

[northside]

Thing is iPhone and Android developers have access to the same web technologies and they have access to a fully featured SDK too.

There is a big diffference between merely having access to them and having them as an integral part of the development framework. There's an article out there somewhere about a lead developer at Pivotal Labs who said some programming tasks that could be handled in a matter of minutes for WebOS would take hours on the iPhone and Android. Pivotal Labs is a pretty major mobile-app developer, so I tend to believe him.