[johncc]

...
And why should I have to rely on third party for something that was basic and included in a 13yr old OS?

Exactly!!!! I don't agree with all of the listed deficiencies but I do think that to provide the capabilities of the PalmOS PIM software should have been the starting point.

[johncc]

The old OS almost bankrupted their company. This is an almost clean break. Classic is there for all the 'cant live without it stuff'.

Not true. The old OS, and the power and popularity of it's associated PIM was what allowed Palm to survive it's years of inaction.

[ellianth]

It appears that by bringing in the new engineering team, much of the hard-earned knowledge of Palm's (and Handspring's) PDA and Smartphone teams was unnecessarily thrown out. They should have been starting from Square 10, but instead they're starting out from square one. This might be considered silly if it wasn't actually so unnecessary.

It's better to get the basics down first and then add extra features. There's nothing like adding a huge set of superfluous features to 1 application then not having the time to implement any of basic features for the rest of the important applications on the device.

I say wait and see what palm does. My guess is they'll add features that users demand in future device updates.

[AdamK]

It's better to get the basics down first and then add extra features. There's nothing like adding a huge set of superfluous features to 1 application then not having the time to implement any of basic features for the rest of the important applications on the device.

Good point!

I say wait and see what palm does. My guess is they'll add features that users demand in future device updates.

That's my plan, actually. I'm really eager to see how things look in a couple months' time.

[sleepysurf]

... My guess is they'll add features that users demand in future device updates.

Or more likely implement them on v2.0 of the Pre, in 12-18 mo, along with 16 MB memory, following Apple (and others) business model of slow incremental rollouts of the latest and greatest for more $$.

[dbpaddler]

Sorry. Not a good point. Things that are missing from the PalmOS PIM are the basics. We're talking basic PIM functionality. It's basic management of personal information that's existed for almost 13yrs (some features a little less since they were added over time).

And that "1" application is part of the basis of the phone. This whole convergence thing was the melding of a PDA and a phone. The iphone started the dumbing down of the PDA side and the Pre is continuing with Synergy as its scapegoat.

You're also suggesting people wait and see on something they consider to be basic. Not like we're talking about flash, video recording or visual voicemail. Two of those things I could give a rat's patoot about.

It's better to get the basics down first and then add extra features. There's nothing like adding a huge set of superfluous features to 1 application then not having the time to implement any of basic features for the rest of the important applications on the device.

I say wait and see what palm does. My guess is they'll add features that users demand in future device updates.

[realistdreamer]

I'm getting a Pre, but this is a grip of mine. I like I get to use categories and essentially have apps with more options and customizations. I deal in large datasets and cute icons are just not good enough.

The thing that scares me about this is that the Pre may require MORE keyboard use than the Centro. Why? Because I don't have categories I can scroll through with my thumb, but instead need to TYPE on the SLIDE-OUT keyboard. This does not bode well for one-handed use.

With Agendus, I can now find a number/contact with nothing more than my thumb. Doesn't seem I'll be able to pull this off on the Pre.

I'm optimistic and hopeful that this will get fixed or there will be MANY MANY Palm fans who are sorely disappointed. Palm cannot afford to lose its simplicity in favor of cool graphics and swipes.

[dbpaddler]

in all fairness you're using a 3rd party app. I was hoping for some inclusions of Agendus features into the Pre's native PIM, but we got just the opposite. Would hope Iambic produces Agendus for WebOS, especially seeing how limited the Pre's PIM actually is.

[klynn]

I think for many of us the point is that we have been Palm customers for many years, buying their products as they've progressed. And patiently waitng for this major progression to occur. Most have stayed with them because of the basic functions of the PIM applications. It's just sad that we now have to take steps back in these functions as a reward for our loyalty.

Maybe it's just naive to think that Palm even cares about our loyalty. Marketing these days is all about getting the younger generation's money and Palm would be stupid not to chase that as well. But they've been getting our money for the past 13 years pretty steadily and most have been anxious to make this switch. Just suck that we have to lose what made past products so productive.

I don't doubt that the influx of Apple people drove this. As far as the PIM apps are concerned it seems like they're thinking was "We'll just do what we did there with one or two improvements...no need to build on what made Palm's apps so good." Really frustrating.

Oh jeez, did I just rant? I think I just ranted! Please forgive, my hopes were just so positive for the new OS and I feel so disappointed by what's being released. Old dogs just like their old tricks, I guess. I know time will probably correct most of this but we've all waited so long to begin with........

[realistdreamer]

I just think they had their plate full and will leave this to the 3rd parties. My fear is that they won't give them enough access to the Linux core to make this stuff work the way we need. Specifically, in Exchange, I have many categories, reminders, etc. That needs to carry to the phone and that may require more access to the core. If Palm restricts this access, iambic can't do this. Also, given the finger-centric nature of this era of phones, iambic has a good deal of programming work to make an app with similar one hand operation.

I only fault Palm for not giving these guys access to the SDK sooner so Palm'ers don't have to go backward for so long before a fix is available.

[pdxtreo]

This is an interesting thread. There are so many reasons why I am not pulling the trigger on a Pre. My 755 and future Centro take care of all my smartphone needs. If I wanted an I phone I would have jumped to ATT a long time ago.

[ellianth]

Sorry. Not a good point. Things that are missing from the PalmOS PIM are the basics. We're talking basic PIM functionality. It's basic management of personal information that's existed for almost 13yrs (some features a little less since they were added over time).

And that "1" application is part of the basis of the phone. This whole convergence thing was the melding of a PDA and a phone. The iphone started the dumbing down of the PDA side and the Pre is continuing with Synergy as its scapegoat.

You're also suggesting people wait and see on something they consider to be basic. Not like we're talking about flash, video recording or visual voicemail. Two of those things I could give a rat's patoot about.

I didn't name any specific application, did I? In the example of a calendar application, basic functionality would be to add an appointment, provide a way to view the appointments, and provide a way to delete the appointments. Something like searching through all appointments (while a nice feature) is not a basic feature as you can view your appointments in another fashion. Question: what exactly do you consider basic features for a PIM application?

You seem to forget that they were designing more than 1 phone, an OS, a means for developers to write and test applications for said OS, and trying to keep their company from tanking. That's a lot of things to do at once, and not every employee at the company is a programmer. I'd rather have an OS that works properly than have a buggy OS with an all bells and whistles PIM application that crashes every 10 seconds because the OS it's running on is a pile crap.

Just because their old applications had these features doesn't mean the new ones get them off the bat. What do you think, they can just copy and paste the code and everything will run perfectly? That's not how the world works.

According to your logic, 'basic' functionality isn't very hard to implement so why don't you make a PIM application. It shouldn't take you very long (it's easy). And when you release it you BETTER have all the features that someone like me will want, because people like me refuse to wait and let you add features based on our feedback.

Finally, I agree that the phone isn't perfect out of the box, but no one is forcing anyone to run out on launch day to buy the device - hence the wait and see.

[rotello]

in all fairness you're using a 3rd party app. I was hoping for some inclusions of Agendus features into the Pre's native PIM, but we got just the opposite. Would hope Iambic produces Agendus for WebOS, especially seeing how limited the Pre's PIM actually is.

I'm actually getting a little worried about iambic NOT producing a WebOS version... Check out the following post on their forums that looks like it's from one of their people:

iambic Community Forums - View Single Post - Palm Pre, webOS and iambic

That's back in April, but still, yikes!

rotello

[notabun]

Out with the old and busted, in with the new hotness.

[ADGrant]

It appears that by bringing in the new engineering team, much of the hard-earned knowledge of Palm's (and Handspring's) PDA and Smartphone teams was unnecessarily thrown out. They should have been starting from Square 10, but instead they're starting out from square one. This might be considered silly if it wasn't actually so unnecessary.

That is probably what happened. This sort of thing happens all the time in the Software development field (and many other I am sure). New guys come in with their own ideas who are not interested in the old systems and ideas. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is just business as usual.

[ADGrant]

I'm actually getting a little worried about iambic NOT producing a WebOS version... Check out the following post on their forums that looks like it's from one of their people:

iambic Community Forums - View Single Post - Palm Pre, webOS and iambic

That's back in April, but still, yikes!

rotello

I would be very surprised to see a WebOS version of iambic's software anytime soon given the apparent limitations in the SDK. Also the development skills required to develop PalmOS and WM apps don't really translate into WebOS development.

[gadgetluva]

Some of these are just issues with it being a new OS, but hopefully this enhanced functionality will come through (particularly with tasks). I'm keeping my GSM Treo Pro for a while to come, and staying with WM indefinitely.

[slbailey1]

One of the things that has frustrated me about the new Pre is that they've left out so many things that were standard in the old Palm OS.

Here's just a few that immediately spring to mind:
- Being able to manage appointments across time zones (somebody just posted on this)
- Having Tasks that repeat
- Being able to change ringtones for message alerts, etc.
- No categories in memos
- No advanced calculator
- Launcher only has 3 cards

This just sealed it for me - I will not get the Palm Pre or any WebOs device with out the fixes to the PIM. I absolutely need repeating Task with alarms.

[meyerweb]

Out with the old and busted, in with the new hotness.

Well, using hotness as a metaphor, some of us are afraid we're trading, say Hillary Clinton (or Condoleeze Rice, if you prefer) for Heidi Montag. Yeah, the new one's a lot hotter, but not nearly as useful nor productive.

[unwiredben]

I've never been much of a a syncer but I'd love to be able to keep downloading files, especially mp3s.

Yesterday I searched for a PalmOS mp3 player that could download, but to no avail.

Pocket Tunes Deluxe 5.0 on Palm OS will directly download podcasts; you just enter the feed URL. With it installed, when I select a MP3 file in Blazer, I get the option to play directly or save to the device or card.