[mkrajew]

This will be my first ever Smartphone. I'm currently using a RAZR So I'm looking forward to being able to do things I've never been able to before, like having my calendar always with me, be able to check emails and the internet as well.

Anyways onto my question, I think having a GPS in the phone and having Sprint NAV included is pretty awesome. Going even further, I was thinking about trying out Geocaching this summer and I don't own a GPS that would do it. Anybody out there know anything about Geocaching and have any ideas on if they think the Pre would be able to do it? Maybe it'd need an appropriate app built first to show more details than what we'd get in the standard GPS mapping software? I'd appreciate the thoughts!

[showson1]

This is something I'm holding out on finding too..
Up until recently I had an iPhone and there are some Geocaching apps on there, but they're more for managing your geocaches.
The GPS on the current iPhone is just not accurate enough to actually find the cache.

I don't know how that compares to the Pre GPS, but worse comes to worse, the GC apps for the other phone do make finding caches a lot easier.. so worse comes to worse I'm sure Pre will at least have one of those.

[ivhs72]

Timble makes a great Geocaching program that works with several phone platforms. I would think if anyone would make one it would be them. I have found it at times working better than my Garmin Oregon 300.

[aewilliams]

@ivhs72: Are you a member of the Frazier Heli-rappelers?
My wife loves that quote. She has a little gear-shaped paperweight that has it engraved on it. She got it at UncommonGoods .com Item #17923

[bobodobo]

Sorry if this has been answered somewhere, I searched but I couldn't find it...

Will the Pre have a stand-alone GPS that receives satellites directly, or is network access required ("Assisted GPS" I think its called)? Right now with my Treo 755p I use a Garmin Mobile XT system with the external Bluetooth receiver. It works well but it would be nice not to have to carry (and remember to recharge) an external GPS unit. However, if the Pre's built-in GPS doesn't work in remote areas without Sprint network coverage, its value is limited (to me anyway.)

[ronlongo]

Sorry if this has been answered somewhere, I searched but I couldn't find it...

Will the Pre have a stand-alone GPS that receives satellites directly, or is network access required ("Assisted GPS" I think its called)? Right now with my Treo 755p I use a Garmin Mobile XT system with the external Bluetooth receiver. It works well but it would be nice not to have to carry (and remember to recharge) an external GPS unit. However, if the Pre's built-in GPS doesn't work in remote areas without Sprint network coverage, its value is limited (to me anyway.)

It's not a satellite GPS it's antenna GPS which means that the phone uses signal strength from cell towers to calculate its position.

[prebert]

Will the Pre have a stand-alone GPS that receives satellites directly, or is network access required ("Assisted GPS" I think its called)?

According to the information listed in the DETAILS section at the very bottom. The GPS on the Pre only works within wireless coverage area only.

[jhoff80]

It's not a satellite GPS it's antenna GPS which means that the phone uses signal strength from cell towers to calculate its position.

Wow, not true at all. It's assisted GPS, that we know for sure. That means that yes, the GPS radio is assisted by the phone's internet connection. There's certain things a GPS receiver needs to do to get a fix, and the major one doesn't change all that often but needs a really good GPS signal (I believe it's called the ephemeris data). That can be downloaded over the Internet easily for a faster fix. But after that, the GPS receiver is getting the signal from the satellites just like any other.

What we don't know is if it'll work in stand-alone mode. In other words, if the phone is off and/or has no signal, we don't know if it'll be able to get that same starting data from the satellite. After the 800w fiasco, and since the Treo Pro (even on Sprint) did work in stand-alone mode, I'd bet the Pre does as well.

[premarkable]

I've thought about using it to check the web page of the cache I'm looking for, and to see what caches are near to my location, but not much else. With the browser speeds posted so far and the ability to use Google maps from the geocaching web site, (I'm hoping it does this, I don't know for sure) it would be much better than my 700wx.

[showson1]

I've thought about using it to check the web page of the cache I'm looking for, and to see what caches are near to my location, but not much else.

I'm pretty sure this will be available.
On my other phone I open the app and it gets a GPS fix and shows me all the caches in the area.
I can then download the cache info, decode the hints, etc..

[LurkMoar]

you'd need to have service where you're at though in order to download the maps

[premarkable]

you'd need to have service where you're at though in order to download the maps

So far, this hasn't been a problem. I'm not saying it never will be a problem though.

[LurkMoar]

ya i like to drive my jeep up in the mountains too go geocaching. got a garmin rino 120 for that ^_^

[jbg7474]

It's not a satellite GPS it's antenna GPS which means that the phone uses signal strength from cell towers to calculate its position.

All GPS receivers get data from the GPS satellites. Phones may also use triangulation based on the signal strength of cell towers. I believe all cell phones (even those without GPS receivers) do that, actually, which is how 911 knows where you are. Phones may also get the ephemeris data (information about the precise satellite orbits) through the cell network, which helps locate the satellites and get a quicker fix.

GPS is totally fascinating. It involves so many cool technologies. It's amazing that we can get it in such tiny form factors.

[no1smartphone]

It would be interesting to know which GPS chip is in the Pre and whether its SIRF STAR 3 chip. I would assume that as its assisted its one of the cheaper gps chips with 8 channels that the SIRF which can have upto 20 channels - more channels the better it is for getting and holding a fix.

[bobodobo]

OK, now that you lucky folks have Pres in your hot little hands, please do tell... if you turn off the phone or go to an area with no Sprint service, can you still get a GPS location? I understand that services that require a data connection to transfer maps to your Pre won't work, but what about your location?

[jhoff80]

OK, now that you lucky folks have Pres in your hot little hands, please do tell... if you turn off the phone or go to an area with no Sprint service, can you still get a GPS location? I understand that services that require a data connection to transfer maps to your Pre won't work, but what about your location?

There are no GPS apps yet which don't use the data connection. They're all location-based services that access the internet, or programs that download maps from the internet.

[bobodobo]

There are no GPS apps yet which don't use the data connection. They're all location-based services that access the internet, or programs that download maps from the internet.

Ok, I sort of guessed that the apps don't exist yet, but does the Pre have a GPS chip that is capable of receiving the GPS satellite signals directly? Or will one always have to use an external BT receiver when out of service areas like I currently do with Garmin Mobile XT on my 755p?

[jhoff80]

Ok, I sort of guessed that the apps don't exist yet, but does the Pre have a GPS chip that is capable of receiving the GPS satellite signals directly? Or will one always have to use an external BT receiver when out of service areas like I currently do with Garmin Mobile XT on my 755p?

As soon as there's an app that I can test with when the phone is offline, I'll let you know. As for an external Bluetooth receiver, that's not possible with the Pre right now, because it has very limited Bluetooth support at present, really just the audio profiles, not even OBEX file exchange.

[bobodobo]

Thanks jhoff80.

Sorry just a couple more questions and I'll quit, I promise!

1. What happens if one creates a route to a location with no cell coverage while in a location with cell coverage (and presumably some map information gets transferred to the phone)? When you get close to the destination does the Pre continue to give you directions (via stand-alone GPS capability) or does it simply stop navigating?

2. Really, not even the Bluetooth support needed to communicate with an external GPS unit, like the Treos have? (Or is that done by custom BT support that comes with the GPS software from Garmin, TomTom, etc.?)