[GreenHex]

...sounding more and more like television... but with one dangerous addition, you can spend all your money instantly, on a whim.

I wonder why people are so excited about stuff like the Amazon store and the app store? It is almost like people are meant to do only one thing... buy things that no one needs by sending your money down the internet pipe.

Is buying things so important that it has to be done when one is in the toilet even? But that's another thread.

[miles4000]

"buy things that no one needs by sending your money down the internet pipe"

I think people need and like to buy and listen to music.

[MannyZ28]

Uhm...I want free apps!

I am hoping that all they showed so far is free, and I am guessing it is. Pandora is free on the PC, Amazon store..well, you spend money with them, so that app has to be free. Fandango....gives you a way to buy stuff, that ought to be free too.

Hopefully Netflix, DirecTV, YouTube, MySpace, and all the other big boys will have free apps too. My guess is, if it's free on the iPhone, it better be free on the Pre. It's only advanced programs and games that land up costing money.

Just because the stuff is available doesn't mean you HAVE to buy it. Yeah, it makes it easier, but....do you buy all the crap Billy Mays is trying to sling at ya on TV? I don't !

[Eguy]

hmm Netflix instant streaming on Pre...

[MannyZ28]

hmm Netflix instant streaming on Pre...

I don't see why they couldn't do that! That would be awesome!

[GreenHex]

Just because the stuff is available doesn't mean you HAVE to buy it. Yeah, it makes it easier, but....do you buy all the crap Billy Mays is trying to sling at ya on TV? I don't !

You know, the argument "just because it's there..." doesn't hold water, and it's kind of old.

What I was referring to is not that these "shop" apps are available and "free" but that it's like somebody setting shop in your backyard. In some sense, all those "stores" are just that... occupying space and irritating you by their mere presence on the device that you paid good money to buy. Worse, you are supposed to feel good and grateful for that.

And of course, why the pressing need to buy software and music anywhere and at any time?

[leadtrumpetdave]

As long as these stores are optional instead of being heaped on as bloatware I'm very excited to have a few convenient buying options at my fingertips. I'll happily have the palm app store, the amazon store, etc. take up some space on my device. A Sprint branded store being forced upon me would be another issue entirely!

[joelpalm]

We are Americans. Fat and lazy. Don't overestimate us.

[LupeValenz]

We are a mobile world now, we shouldn't be locked down to our computers to get apps and music to put on our devices. Most of the time with the Palm OS devices, I hear about an app from a friend and when I get home, I forgot what the app was and just don't download it. Same for music, I hear a music that sounds good and I want to get it now while its fresh in my head instead of waiting to go back to download it.

[StatCoder]

The fact is that the entire Pre/WebOS thing is being built based on the potential to sell you stuff. Do you really think that a $199 device purchase is enough to justify the huge investment in technology?

I heard an estimate on CNBC yesteday that Palm would have to sell 8 million Pres in order to justify its stock price. Obviously, it will not sell that many devices in the near future. Sprint, etc., are counting on being able to sell you stuff through your smartphone. That's why you have beg to pay $700 for one of these things off contract. It's like you are taking money away from them if you aren't going to play along.

Don't like it? Blame anyone who ever bought a ringtone. That's when they realized that they could sell you practically ANYTHING as long as they only charged you 99 cents at a time. Dig up Bob Marley from the grave to sing to you when mom calls? That'll be 99 cents.

It's up to Palm or the platform owner to spare us from this crap as much as possible. I'm sure that Apple needed a lot of clout to keep AT&T junk off of the iPhone. One wonders if Palm has enough of the same to keep Sprint at bay. Successful players at this game, like Google, can keep their user experience as unobtrusive as possible. What the OP is probably sensing is that Palms software "partners" were given the opportunity to sell you something in exchange for placement on the devices at launch. We'll just have to see whether a brand-new out-of-the-box Pre looks like a 1990's off-brand PC desktop. If you first day with your new Pre involves trashing or moving-aside pre-installed junk then Palm has something to answer for.

[SolarPlexus]

...sounding more and more like television... but with one dangerous addition, you can spend all your money instantly, on a whim.

I wonder why people are so excited about stuff like the Amazon store and the app store? It is almost like people are meant to do only one thing... buy things that no one needs by sending your money down the internet pipe.

Is buying things so important that it has to be done when one is in the toilet even? But that's another thread.

I don't think I understand how that is different from the direction of every other smart mobile device out there.........

[Zyphlin]

Uhm...I want free apps!

I am hoping that all they showed so far is free, and I am guessing it is. Pandora is free on the PC, Amazon store..well, you spend money with them, so that app has to be free. Fandango....gives you a way to buy stuff, that ought to be free too.

From what I'd guess and what they said, it seemed all the apps they were showing yesterday would be free except for "classic". They mentioned you'd need to buy that, which frankly makes sense.

And of course, why the pressing need to buy software and music anywhere and at any time?

On vacation away from your computer and want some news songs or programs to help on the flight? Download it. Hear a new song on the radio you like and have a tendancy to forget it by the time you get home? Download it. Like not having to hook up to your computer and do everything from there, well now you don't have to.

Its one thing if they made you buy everything from the Pre, but its simply giving you the option to.

It's up to Palm or the platform owner to spare us from this crap as much as possible. I'm sure that Apple needed a lot of clout to keep AT&T junk off of the iPhone. One wonders if Palm has enough of the same to keep Sprint at bay. Successful players at this game, like Google, can keep their user experience as unobtrusive as possible. What the OP is probably sensing is that Palms software "partners" were given the opportunity to sell you something in exchange for placement on the devices at launch. We'll just have to see whether a brand-new out-of-the-box Pre looks like a 1990's off-brand PC desktop. If you first day with your new Pre involves trashing or moving-aside pre-installed junk then Palm has something to answer for.

See, I don't mind much of the Sprint bloatware IF they make it final versions (IE, not "use for 5 days then pay $19.99 to buy the liscense).

Sprint TV, great program.
Amazon Music Store, good to have on.
Sprint Navigation, again, free GPS software. Awesome.

The things I'd hope can be possibly removed is things like the Sprint Nascar or such. Things that are GOOD programs if you like it (I'm holding onto hope they have Sprint NFL), but are worthless if you're not a fan.

[peachness]

Many of us do not spend large amounts of money on music and apps, but it is really nice to have the option there if we want to on the fly (say I am waiting for my car at the shop and I see a commercial for a REALLY neat app on TV I could use). I don't think it is an old argument... its a matter of whatever you want to do with the device. Don't like those options/programs? Hide them or figure out how to get rid of them. Just because it is there for the rest of us doesn't mean you need to care about what we do with it. Lamenting the consumerist nature of western society is kind of moot at this point. Its here, deal with it.

I think it is more the implication of technologies to come in the future that is so interesting to a lot of people. Well, maybe just me. But the idea that one little phone can act as a computer, TV, and phone just blows me away when I stop to think back to my first cell phone. It did nothing but send and receive phone calls and that was just 10 years ago. If they can come up with such an all-inclusive device now, what will there be in the next 10 years, even 5 years?

[GreenHex]

Don't like those options/programs? Hide them or figure out how to get rid of them. Just because it is there for the rest of us doesn't mean you need to care about what we do with it.

Not everybody has that amount of self control or skills... besides its a damn nuisance. Having spent an inordinate amount of my money on music (CDs!!!) in the past... that's something I'm quiet wary about.

Lamenting the consumerist nature of western society is kind of moot at this point. Its here, deal with it.

Know what? That's precisely what I had in mind when I wrote that...

[peachness]

Not everybody has that amount of self control or skills... besides its a damn nuisance. Having spent an inordinate amount of my money on music (CDs!!!) in the past... that's something I'm quiet wary about.

So to be sure, you are annoyed it offers you easy access to those things because you lack self-control? That's not Palm's fault. I would imagine there will be a way for you to customize the phone to your liking. Something tells me that this phone is 10 times more user friendly than any other Palm phone.

Know what? That's precisely what I had in mind when I wrote that...

That it is pointless to worry about it or my blase attitude about it? Times change, baby.

[GreenHex]

...because you lack self-control?

"Self-control" (or lack of self-control) is a human thing. It depends on the situation. It is different with different people. And it is "relative".

In any case, I was referring to the social-engineering aspects of such technologies and marketing strategies. Which, I believe, have been more than substantiated by your comments.

[MannyZ28]

I agree with peachness, I think GreenHex needs to seek help to control his lack of self control.

I think the possibilites the phone gives you are awesome. When I was a kid and saw Star Trek for the first time, I was amazed how Capt. Kirk can whip out his communicator and be in touch with everyone. Ever since then I always wanted something with me that keeps me connected and knows all the answers. A few years later they invented this thing called the Home Computer, and I got myself a Commodore 64. Wow, how smart that thing must be with it's 64k of ram and 0.97 Mhz clock speed. Besides playing games with it, I was fascinated by this program I found in a german computer magazine called "VIC". It basically was a "intelligent" program with which you could have a conversation with. Of course, it only knew a few phrases and threw them at you when you typed in a keyword that would trigger it. Years later I would find this chat thing again, on a PC hooked up to this thing called the internet running this program called AIM. Prior to that, in my quest to have lots of knowledge on me at all times, I bought one of those Franklin portable Encyclopedias. It was limited, non updateable, had no pictures, but yet I loved it! Needless to say, the internet blew me away while growing up...all this knowledge....most of it for free!

And finally, I buy my first smart phone, my current Sprint Touch, and I am discovering all the possiblities all over again.

The Pre to me is just all I ever wanted in a daily companion that will tell me where to go, and lets me talk to anyone I want. I say bring on the Apps! Show me more of what I can do with this thing.

Long story, I know, but it puts in perspective how far we have come in a relatively short amount of time. I remember my friend in Germany wanting a Watchman, so he could watch TV wherever he was...well, we got Sprint TV and YouTube now!

Anyhow...be smart about what Apps you will buy, and you'll be alright. Browse through them, think three times about if you really need it or not, then buy it. It's common sense, it's as easy as that.

Home alone on a friday night...brings out the nostalgia....

[dbpaddler]

why don't you go into forums about Walmart, Target or any grocery store, drug store or convenience store. What do they have at the check out counters? Tons of cheap impulse buy stuff. Things we get on a whim without really much consideration. If you don't like capitalism and companies preying on people's lack of self control, you're living in the wrong country.

If you can't control your impulses to spend money on apps and services you only want but don't need, then shame on you. We all have discretionary funds, and we all choose how we want to spend it. If you can't handle the temptation, don't buy the phone. I don't see anyone here twisting your arm.

Also, something like Pandora is free in limited form. Want more control over the music selections? You have to pay. A lot of things in basic forms are free. If you want more functionality, you have to pay. I know I'm not going to arbitrarily download more music because I can do it easily on my phone, but it will save me the hassle of writing it down and searching on the pc when I get home because I can do it in a minute on my phone.

And what about things that can potentially save you money? Apps that can tell you where to find the cheapest gas and have the adr go right to TeleNav. Or easier access to Pricegrabber and such that can help you comparison shop when you're actually looking to buy something. What about the ability to help organize your life a little more or just making it more convenient to stay organized?

"Self-control" (or lack of self-control) is a human thing. It depends on the situation. It is different with different people. And it is "relative".

In any case, I was referring to the social-engineering aspects of such technologies and marketing strategies. Which, I believe, have been more than substantiated by your comments.

[peachness]

"Self-control" (or lack of self-control) is a human thing. It depends on the situation. It is different with different people. And it is "relative".

You do have a point, it is relative. Doesn't change the fact that their reaction isn't Palm's fault. They are creating a product for the masses, not just you. I can only hope for your sake they give the option to uninstall or ignore such programs that you deem unnecessary. I prefer to just ignore them.

In any case, I was referring to the social-engineering aspects of such technologies and marketing strategies. Which, I believe, have been more than substantiated by your comments.

Aside from being a business who's primary goal (and I'm just guessing here) is to make a profit, what exactly are they doing that bothers you so? Social-engineering what, exactly? That just because I can easily buy things on my phone I will? People throw away their money all the time, is it hurting you? If you are the one throwing your money away because you are enticed, getting annoyed at the availability of your weakness doesn't change the fact that its there. We are embracing technology, living a mobile lifestyle more and more. It just makes sense for all types of communications devices and their options to merge together.

[GreenHex]

Let me once again re-state what I'm thinking about all this:

• I'm all for progress, and for the Palm Pre, and for all its features, including shops right on the device. I don't even mind dedicated buttons for each shop, that, when pressed, buys the entire catalog and charges it to our credit card in an instant - if that's what is the future of human "progress".
  
• I'm only revisiting that idealistic premise and differences between needs and desires. We cannot, sometimes, distinguish between the two.
  
• I put all things made available on mobile platforms in the category other than "needs" - hence this entire thread.
  
• I always like a nice discussion, which is another reason for this thread.