[jbg7474]

I think it would be better if they had help off the announcement till a month in advance and slowly released information to build excitment and then launch ASAP - excite both the developers and potential end-users at the same time... and do it before the competitors can react!

Disagree with you on this one--I think the launch at CES was magic, and the fact that it won Best in Show ensured huge coverage. It may have been harder to introduce it at MWC, especially if they weren't sure they would have a GSM version ready by then. As it stands, if they just show up at MWC with the same demos they had at CES, they'll probably get tons of attention. They'll be on everyone's must see list.

I agree with the sentiments expressed in this thread that we are just in an echo chamber here. The news only feels old because we've beat every subject to death by virtue of our intense interest. Every new dribble will refresh our interest all over again. I can't wait to hear what comes out of MWC!

[Aero]

I have to agree, the Pre is loosing the initial WOW factor *but* that doesn't make it any less impressive.

I agree. "Wow" has almost no persistance, but even "impressive" is a fight against time, especially short time in personal consumer electronics like ipod, iphone, pre etc.

The main problem is with Sprint and Palm defining the Pre as their machine to combat the iphone, they run into problems immediately with things like memory capacity, and also the closer you get to even a whiff of the next iphone.

Yes, they had to hook it to the iphone (in the initial presntation within three minutes they were brining up iphone with the interchangble battery comment) and when price was discussed it went right to iophone.
But that wasn't aimed at consumers, it was financial market considerations. By December the markets had driven Palm and Sprint into near death territory and made them takeover targets.

The market's question to Palm and Sprint has been one thing for a year: what will you do about iphone?So they had to spin about Pre taking on iphone and did.

Product identity has nothing to do with specs. it is created by branding, marketing and exist within that environment. 1% of buyers or less will know the processor. And with iphone adn ipod people are trained to know one thing: memory capacity.

So it is a difficult road to hoe the closer you get to a response from apple.

[Aero]

Disagree with you on this one--I think the launch at CES was magic, and the fact that it won Best in Show ensured huge coverage.!

The instict was announced in a joint press conference and won Best in Show at the CTIA, the industry conference on mobile phones! Huge coverage, $100 million dollar TV and web campaign was announced, but they got caught on timing with the new iphone. With its second iphone answer, Sprint is better positioned in timing right now and has a better product, but worse positioned in cash.

[scuba_steve]

Wow...jaded before the phone hits the streets. You guys are tough.


I'd just be happy if I could get a copy of the Pre SDK with a Pre emulator...even if it was just a fairly unstable beta with a beta API. That satisfied my Android lust and got my team to work long before the G-1 was out. The fact that the Mojo SDK is not in wide release says something...I'm just not sure what. Let's hope that they don't follow the iPhone model...and release the SDK a year after the phone hits the street.

[Reeves]

The instict was announced in a joint press conference and won Best in Show at the CTIA, the industry conference on mobile phones! Huge coverage, $100 million dollar TV and web campaign was announced, but they got caught on timing with the new iphone.

Buddy, the iPhone 3G had zero to do with the Instinct's failure. It failed because it shipped with a crappy browser, bugs, and no java app compatibility. Then, bad word of mouth built up. Then, people began returning them. They didn't return them because they were just killing time until the iPhone 3G launched. The iPhone 3G was announced with a release date and price weeks before the Instinct was available in stores, so Sprint customers who wanted one knew of it well before they could ever get a chance to plunk down money for an Instinct. If its "timing" was such a detriment, Instincts would have sold poorly initially and beyond. But the first batch sold great...Telesales and local Sprint stores moved all stock as soon as it came in.

And contrary to your revisionist history, Sprint marketed the handset heavily on its own merits in theaters, TV and in print ads. Only the Web spots had that "Instinct vs. iPhone" or "Instinct vs. iPhone 3G" focus. And those spots only appeared on Sprint's site, and then were linked to and discussed by several tech sites such as Engadget or Gizmodo (I think a few got copied to YouTube eventually as well).

[Aero]

Buddy, the iPhone 3G had zero to do with the Instinct's failure.

LOL. OK, if you think so. Everyone in marketing noting the thing was release as competition for the first iphone, complete with planned point by point advertisements, and then had to face the new iPhone which debunked the advertisements is wrong and you are right. sure. They had to pull the add campaign because they got caught with the pants down.

Almost all of the advertising of handsets is done by carriers. They define the handset. The carriers define it with marketing and advertising, specs don't. maybe .01% of the people knows the processor of their handset. The thing most of the buyers of the only other major competing pleasure/business handset, iPhone, know is memory, like 8gb or 16 gb.

The point of the instinct was not to sell instincts, it was to keep people from leaving Sprint for ATT/iphone. That is the point of the Pre from the perspective of the company that will market it, advertise it and de4ine it: sprint.

Palm is not selling anything to you. You are not buying Pre from them. Sprint is selling you a service. They are trying to find the appliance that will get you to buy the service and stay with it. That is the business model. Palm's customer is Sprint -not you/

[Reeves]

LOL. OK, if you think so. Everyone in marketing noting the thing was release as competition for the first iphone, complete with planned point by point advertisements, and then had to face the new iPhone which debunked the advertisements is wrong and you are right. sure. They had to pull the add campaign because they got caught with the pants down.

The only spots that ever directly compared the two were not only NOT pulled, but were updated to contrast specifically against the iPhone 3G. The rest of the campaign for print, TV, and theaters never was going to feature iPhone 3G. NEVER. Why would Sprint spend 100 million to remind people of the iPhone 3G launch and partially advertise for it?

Almost all of the advertising of handsets is done by carriers. They define the handset. The carriers define it with marketing and advertising, specs don't. maybe .01% of the people knows the processor of their handset. The thing most of the buyers of the only other major competing pleasure/business handset, iPhone, know is memory, like 8gb or 16 gb.

Sorry, but this is demonstrably false. Not only does Apple do pretty much all iPhone marketing, much like Palm does the majority of marketing for the Centro, but their ads focus on everything that defines an iPhone (e.g. apps, games, finger usage, OS) EXCEPT the memory.

The point of the instinct was not to sell instincts, it was to keep people from leaving Sprint for ATT/iphone.

Again, demonstrably false. The point of the Instinct was to get more users on Simply Everything plans and drive up ARPU. Hesse confirmed it publicly.

Not sure where you get these ideas...

[anon(45821)]

The purpose and usefulness of this thread is "wearing off"!!

[WhoAmI]

Disagree with you on this one--I think the launch at CES was magic, and the fact that it won Best in Show ensured huge coverage. It may have been harder to introduce it at MWC, especially if they weren't sure they would have a GSM version ready by then. As it stands, if they just show up at MWC with the same demos they had at CES, they'll probably get tons of attention. They'll be on everyone's must see list.

I agree with the sentiments expressed in this thread that we are just in an echo chamber here. The news only feels old because we've beat every subject to death by virtue of our intense interest. Every new dribble will refresh our interest all over again. I can't wait to hear what comes out of MWC!

The launch was indeed amazing! My point however is that in my opinion they let the cat out of the bag to soon. I think Palm would have been better off waiting till they were really ready to show off a RC product - a product almsot ready for production.

I agree with scuba_steve too... I think they should have at least had a beta SDK ready for developers. I know they are worried about a clean launch but I'm pretty sure giving developers a head-start would help make the launch even sweeter!

The fact that the Mojo SDK is not in wide release says something...I'm just not sure what.

Working as an engineer myself, I think it says that marketing needed a PRPRPR $boost$ $but$ $the$ $engineering$ - $actual$ $device$ - $isn$'$t$ $ready$.

[WhoAmI]

the purpose and usefulness of this thread is "wearing off"!!

lol! :d

[Aero]

The launch was indeed amazing! My point however is that in my opinion they let the cat out of the bag to soon. I think Palm would have been better off waiting till they were really ready to show off a RC product - a product almsot ready for production.

I agree with scuba_steve too... I think they should have at least had a beta SDK ready for developers. I know they are worried about a clean launch but I'm pretty sure giving developers a head-start would help make the launch even sweeter!

Working as an engineer myself, I think it says that marketing needed a PRPRPR $boost$ $but$ $the$ $engineering$ - $actual$ $device$ - $isn$'$t$ $ready$.

good points but there was another factor that drive the timing, Sprint and Palms needs in the finacial markets. they needed good press in the financial markets to stop their stock slides. They did well because the news was judged to be substantive. Palm had to have the physical product and a good glimpse at the OS to be credible because of past announcement and long delays.

The question the markets have for Palm and Sprint is singular and loud: what will you do about iphone. Palm answered by making some very direct comparisons (removable battery), and Sprint answered it by having Hesse talking about ARPU and SEP, exactly as he had done with the Instinct iphone killer launch last year.

But the timing of this is really in Sprints court. Palm has never once announced a carrier launch date. Palm does literally almost no post launch marketing on carrier subsidized handsets. They didnt for centro they didn't for Pro CDMA, which has a several million dollar print advertisng contract bought by Sprint a couple of weeks ago and no corresponding contract by Palm).

Palm does have a contract with a PRPRPR $firm$ $for$ $the$ $Pre$, $Edelman$. $they$ $are$ $especially$ $noted$ $for$ $trying$ $to$ $shape$ $internet$ $social$ $media$ $and$ $got$ $caught$ $a$ $few$ $times$ $on$ $social$ $media$ $manipulations$ $that$ $are$ $common$ $like$ $creating$ $fake$ $personas$ $to$ $post$ $on$ $forums$, $fake$ $blogs$ $etc$ (&$quot$;$Flogs$&$quot$;). $They$ $wold$ $go$ $on$ $the$ $net$ $and$ $relentlessly$ $slam$ $anyone$ $saying$ $anything$ $about$ $their$ $clients$. ($google$ +$Edelman$ +$fake$).

If you take the Instinct example, the track of which is being followed, you had a joint announcement, about a three to four month period with little but speculation and a few tidbits being dropped, where behind the scenes they were working on kinks and lining up developers (whcih were thin for instict but for Pre shoudl be good), and then Sprint launching you get March or April.

[Reeves]

But the timing of this is really in Sprints court. Palm has never once announced a carrier launch date. Palm does literally almost no post launch marketing on carrier subsidized handsets. They didnt for centro...

I'm sorry, but this is - yet again - demonstrably wrong.

That ad has been on several major television networks just recently, meaning the Centro was on every single American carrier that wanted it by then. Also, Palm took out independent print ads for the Centro that frequently appeared in Entertainment Weekly and Time.

If you take the Instinct example, the track of which is being followed, you had a joint announcement, about a three to four month period with little but speculation and a few tidbits being dropped, where behind the scenes they were working on kinks and lining up developers (whcih were thin for instict but for Pre shoudl be good), and then Sprint launching you get March or April.

Except for the time of year and the fact that Sprint jointly announced, there's nothing in common between the Instinct and Pre launches. Nothing whatsoever.

[schnoid]

man, this forum isn't nearly as exciting as it was a few weeks ago. Seems like every day I come on here now, the number of posts get lower and lower. Hopefully there are some REALLY significant announcements at MWC cause I would love to see this forum jumping again.

[Reeves]

Well, part of the "jumping" was the amount of spirited debate here. I look forward to more of those too.

[Darth Pooh]

Don't bet on it... a bit of censorship goes on here.

Kidding... Dieter runs a good ship. Always has.

[minimalposter]

I completely agree with the OP. After CES I would have paid full price for the Pre while chanting the resurrection of palm.

But as I wait, and hear of more friends losing employment, recession news conferences, etc, I become less willing to upgrade from my old 755p. Plus I did purchase an ipod touch some time ago and realize that most of my needs are met by the two devices.

[theog]

I completely agree with the OP. After CES I would have paid full price for the Pre while chanting the resurrection of palm.

But as I wait, and hear of more friends losing employment, recession news conferences, etc, I become less willing to upgrade from my old 755p. Plus I did purchase an ipod touch some time ago and realize that most of my needs are met by the two devices.

Nothing will change... if you already purchased two devices "some time ago" that fits your needs, then you would still complain that the pre is too late.

This thread reads like a bunch of fanbozs who can't hold still...

Relax... the pre will ship and it will be successful... unless google gets their crap together and windows 6.5 blows it away....

I doubt if I will even buy the pre though... I like win mob at this point... works well and does what I need....

[Darth Pooh]

It reads like we are a bunch of fanboys? Uh... I suppose, but in reality I think we are just interested in the deets about this device.

We are actually being critical of Palm's technique at releasing information/SDK. Not very fanboy-ish to me...

The superior attitude crap of some people is getting old on this forum.

[theog]

Not very fanboy-ish to me...

The superior attitude crap of some people is getting old on this forum.

No superior attitude, dude.... only an opinion that your posts read like a bunch of fanbozs who can't be still.

Really, I don't care.... just an odd thread... the pre will be released... good for palm to release what they have already....

[Darth Pooh]

For people to be excited over a phone (because it may be a hobby of some sort) and express it, then to have someone pass judgement ("Fanboz", err yeah) is a superior attitude approach.

You aren't better than us. If you don't share the same feelings, I think it's sometimes better to just not sling insults.