[machx]

< edited by Dieter > >

Not that my job is all important and encompassing, but I deal with no less than 10 different hospitals and about 4-10 doctors at each hospital. Within each hospital I have about 30 contacts give or take. Within each doctor's office I have about 10 different contacts. I represent about 6-10 companies at any given time. I have about 5-10 contacts for each of those. There's a lot of specific information I keep for each of those contacts, not to mention multiple numbers, multiple emails and multiple adrs. I keep personal info about many of them in the 4 personal sections. This is just for work. Not to mention all my friends and family, all of my personal business contacts (banks, businesses, customer service info for things I deal with and so on), and of course restaurants, bars, various stores and so on.

Google can't handle all of that. Palm OS couldn't even handle all that at one point in time.

In my memos section I keep basic info for all the products I sell, pricing as well as basic surgical info. Files in storage I keep detailed price lists, product brochures and surgical technique guides. I keep track of inventory and instruments. I have pics of x-rays and completed surgeries as well as some video of procedures. I'd do a lot more of the latter things with better multimedia capabilities, but that would also require more storage.

I haven't even gotten into using it for personal use. I leave the house in the morning and get home at 9 at night. I'm always out and use my Centro extensively. I keep a 2nd battery with me in case I'm not in and out of the car for charging purposes. I have an SD card adapter and card reader in my bag in case I need to make use of any of the above on a pc. Takes up less space than a microUSB cable unless they make a one inch long one I can put on my keychain. If the Pre can give me less reason to pull out my netbook, great.

I just find it amazing that people that do have simple needs that are all met by the Pre have such an adamant view against those that have more complex needs or wants out of the device, and in some cases needs that are already met on an aging PalmOS Centro or Treo. And if we're the latter and vocal, we're trolls? I didn't know these forums suddenly became the PreLounge and the device changed it's name to the iPre.

No I'm sorry, you're not the troll, and neither are the people saying they wish it had microSD... it's a perfectly reasonable request, and I think that's great. The trolls are the ones who sit their grilling the device saying its worthless and Palm is going to go out of business because they didn't include a microSD repeatedly. The fact is this device is going to sell tons of units without microSD, there's no room for discussion

As far as Google not being able to handle extensive contacts I see no reason at all to think that... it supports categories, subfields (maybe not 1000 fields like Palm os does, but enough, and misc fields for extra) Maybe it's not robust, but I have migrated painlessly to it completely and would never look back for the advantage of simplicity.... but to each their own

[machx]

< < Edited by Dieter > >

[dbpaddler]

(sorry. not worth quoting mikah's post)

I didn't know Sandisk was a company with no marketshare. Their Clip and Fuze are popular models. And if I'm a niche user, then why did the 1st gen iphone have a 16gb capacity if it was only for a few niche users and Apple is known for being stingy so they can have people buy early and upgrade often? Why are they bothering to come out with a 32gb version? Sounds like a pretty big niche to me. So why would a company who's been consistently late to the game, come out with a ground breaking, game changing, company saving device that only has the iphone's minimum storage capability? Diva has even pointed out phones from other companies with larger gig storage and a card slot. So you make it seem like nobody else is offering what many of us are asking for.

And my point about the size of the music collection is some people's entire collection is ripped at crap 128kb quality because they have tin for ears and could fit their entire collection on a 5yr old flash drive. Which could be the case with someone like mach and yourself who apparently don't have the need for more memory. Others who have tens of gigs of music would like to buy a 16gb card and throw on a small chunk of it and be done. Not have the entire library on cards that get switched out. Seriously, are you that dense? Not one comment has been made about carrying one's entire collection. That's just a leap you made to try and make a senseless point. Carrying even a fraction of the collection would easily take a major chunk of the 8 gigs. Others talk about you can fill a days worth of tv shows on so many gigs for people that commute and travel often. Well now you're talking about having to copy files over on a somewhat daily basis to constantly replace content. So by your theory, that is better than having to switch out cards?

The poll shows a whopping majority of the people are using at minimum a 4gb card on their current palm phone with it's limited media capabilities. So going up to 8gb on a phone whose media capability far exceeds that of their current phone, is barely doubling their minimum requirement. So interesting how about a 100 responders are niche users and that's just ones that responded, on this limited site.

And at one point people did math with a slide rule and abacus. your point below is just pointless because I have a hard time believing that a card slot is something that is antiquated and old technology.

And at one point, people didn't even know how to do that much. Technology and interfaces change, lest we still be stuck on 286 IBM clones at 25mhz with 5-inch floppy disks and threadbare OSes. Sounds you'd simply need to use a Pre for yourself, sync the files to your desktop, then copy it to a card from there for your Luddite workforce.



The only 8GB media players under $100 are from companies that have almost no marketshare, and that are trying to keep up with the well-over-$100 8GB iPod Nano, iPod Touch, and Microsoft Zune.

And if "many" have more than five times that amount, no current phone solution would suffice without swapping cards constantly. Not exactly a selling point ("Hey...not only do you have to buy microSD cards to really enjoy this phone, but you have to keep swapping them ou...wait, where are you going!?!?!"). That's why there are dedicated media players.



Unfortunately, you are a niche user. The market reality shows that the vast majority of consumers have no problem whatsoever with no microSD slot. iPhone sales have surged while microSD phones are losing marketshare across the board. There's no reason for Palm to continue to head in the "losing marketshare" direction.

[dbpaddler]

< < Edited by Dieter > >

[Dieter Bohn]

thread will be closed if we can't get back on track here.

[machx]

First of all I mean nothing on a personal level - I don't know you nor anyone on this board and I wouldn't go so far as to judge. I was simply saying in a lot of professional fields, doing business from a $99 phone is not respectable.
Like I said, I don't know what you do, but in America (you're British I guess?) status is important... you wouldn't go to a doctor who had rats in the lobby would you?

It's funny. Dieter edited my comment because I called you simple and was poking fun at you. So I digressed. But I was wrong, you're not simple. You're just an *ss taking personal shots now.

You also lost your having a brain argument because Panasonic makes the toughbook not IBM. I think my British textile coworkers even know that one. You also must be a lousy accountant to recommend someone buy a thousand dollar plus device when a $300 one does the job just fine. You're obviously trying to make a point about netbooks being little toys and that one should buy a true sub-notebook instead. So now you're just hung up on status and care greatly about what others think because you have this negative image of a netbook and if you carried one people would think even less of you. A majority of people that need portable use out of a laptop are doing email, using office apps and doing other things that don't require core2 duo processing and high end separate graphics cards. They don't need it to survive being run over by an SUV. So that's an extra $700 plus saved for buying to one's needs as opposed to worrying about your image.

[Reeves]

(sorry. not worth quoting mikah's post)

I didn't know Sandisk was a company with no marketshare. Their Clip and Fuze are popular models.

...that account for less than 12 percent of a shrinking market.

And if I'm a niche user, then why did the 1st gen iphone have a 16gb capacity if it was only for a few niche users and Apple is known for being stingy so they can have people buy early and upgrade often? Why are they bothering to come out with a 32gb version? Sounds like a pretty big niche to me.

What does that have to do with you and your reliance on removable media?!

So why would a company who's been consistently late to the game, come out with a ground breaking, game changing, company saving device that only has the iphone's minimum storage capability?

Because they also have to enter at a price point not significantly above Apple's cheapest phone offering. I mean, really, sir...

Diva has even pointed out phones from other companies with larger gig storage and a card slot. So you make it seem like nobody else is offering what many of us are asking for.

Oh yeah...lessee here. One one hand, we have the Omnia, an okay WM 6.1 handset that Verizon barely cares about. On the other, we have the N97, which sells for the equivalent of $700USD+ without subsidies, and would likely be about $399 on any US carrier, and thus DOA for Palm if it was their only shot at re-establishing their brand versus the $199 iPhone.

Almost forgot about the wonderful Blackberry Storm with 1GB onboard and an 8GB card in box....boy, that one's a winner, too!

If only Palm would follow the lead of those sterling examples...Man. If you ran the company, this discussion would be moot as Palm would be out of business already.

And my point about the size of the music collection is some people's entire collection is ripped at crap 128kb quality because they have tin for ears and could fit their entire collection on a 5yr old flash drive. Which could be the case with someone like mach and yourself who apparently don't have the need for more memory.

What a doof. My digital music collection is ripped at a higher quality, and tops 55GB. What I don't have a "need" for is having all of it at all times on my phone. Or my person at all, for that matter. Like a whole bunch of people, I work at a computer and have one at home. I'd much prefer to use them to play my media because it doesn't tax my phone, and I can then use it for browsing, calls, and messaging without interrupting the music and without killing my charge. If I need to have music when I am away from home or the office, I can play music on my phone (or the Pre when I get it) just dandy, and I do not need 55GB to choose from at those times on my phone. If you do, DON'T BUY THIS DEVICE. In fact, don't buy an iPhone either because even the 16GB fills up quickly once you start adding apps (especially games) and movies. Go drop $700 on an N97 or keep buying microSD cards to stick into antiquated Garnet OS or Windows Mobile devices.

Others who have tens of gigs of music would like to buy a 16gb card and throw on a small chunk of it and be done. Not have the entire library on cards that get switched out. Seriously, are you that dense? Not one comment has been made about carrying one's entire collection. That's just a leap you made to try and make a senseless point. Carrying even a fraction of the collection would easily take a major chunk of the 8 gigs.

How is one word of the above any less true for 16GB? It too would be "a fraction" of your collection if you have "tens" of gigs of music. Whether you have 16GB or 8GB, you're still "throwing a small chunk" of your music on it. For some people 16GB, isn't enough. For some, 32GB isn't enough. For some, 160GB isn't enough. It doesn't behoove Palm to try and second guess where the magical border is because the Pre is not...a media player! My god. Where are the myriad of complaints from people who demand to have 5 megapixels on the camera (actually, far less than the industry consumer camera standard these days) or they're going to whine and take their ball and go home?

They have much more of an argument than you, and yet they are somehow mature enough to realize that a convergence device merely supplants a dedicated device in convenience, not utility.

Others talk about you can fill a days worth of tv shows on so many gigs for people that commute and travel often. Well now you're talking about having to copy files over on a somewhat daily basis to constantly replace content. So by your theory, that is better than having to switch out cards?

People who commute and travel often should have 1)A laptop because a cellphone - even a smartphone - is useless for total business productivity. 2)A hard drive of no less than 150GB if it is a Vista-equipped machine 3)The ability to buy said movies and TV shows from iTunes to store on the laptop in order to watch on a much bigger and higher resolution screen than any phone.

No convergence device does EVERYTHING for EVERYONE. No convenience store sells everything a dedicated grocery store does. You cannot have "it all" in one device. Apple does not try. Palm does not try. No company should try if they are interested in remaining solvent.

The poll shows a whopping majority of the people are using at minimum a 4gb card on their current palm phone with it's limited media capabilities. So going up to 8gb on a phone whose media capability far exceeds that of their current phone, is barely doubling their minimum requirement. So interesting how about a 100 responders are niche users and that's just ones that responded, on this limited site.

This site is limited because it represents a subset of a subset of a subset. No scientific organization would accept a "poll" here as indicative of anything but the feelings of the people in that thread. We're not Nielsen families that have been chosen to represent countless other people. If the views on this site were majority views for the public, Palm would still be a market leader already, wouldn't they? (This is Treo Central, innit?).

Why do I have to explain this to you?

And at one point people did math with a slide rule and abacus. your point below is just pointless because I have a hard time believing that a card slot is something that is antiquated and old technology.

Yes, it's hard to believe that physical media is on the decline in these robust times, eh? I hope you buy lots of stock in compact disc manufacturers. I mean, the players are everywhere, the media is cheap, and it's infinitely expandable!!!

What could go wrong?!?!

[dbpaddler]

sorry, I'm laughing here and not in a bad way. The british comment was for Micah's benefit when he referred to my coworkers as Luddites. Was poking a little fun there.

It's tough to judge the Centro at $99 when previous Palm phones went for the same premium as win mob, symbian and bb phones. It's just that those companies weren't selling for a $1 a share and needed a revival with a $100 palm phone being the necessary infusion to hopefully tide them over to the launch of the Pre. You had many 650, 700 and 755 owners (who all paid a premium for a smartphone) switch to the much cheaper Centro. Didn't mean they lost functionality. I don't see the Centro as a lesser device than the more expensive smartphones out there just because it's priced at $100. It just makes it a bargain.

And you should look up the Samsung NC10, Lenovo S10, MSI Wind and the Asus 1002HA. Netbooks have progressed a great deal from the little Asus Eee 7" models that first came out. They're hardly toylike and from an image point of view have had nothing but positive comments from anyone that's seen it from college students on up to doctors, CEO's and business owners. It's easier to throw in the bag than my XPS1330 and I get about six hours of battery life from it which is a huge plus in the field. Most $1000+ sub notebooks don't get that kind of run time unless you're throwing on giant batteries that kill the weight savings.

So I don't see the comparison of the Centro and a netbook for heavy business use in front of important people to walking into a rat infested doctor's office. And I live in the middle of status central of the Philly burbs. Also using doctors to make your point about a Palm device is definitely barking up the wrong tree. Many docs carry palm because of the medical software available for it, epocrates being one of the more mainstream ones. We use a Tungsten to do all our patient tracking. Have it attached to a bar code scanner to scan in the implants used and then upload it to a main database. Patients use it to input how they're doing when they come in for follow up visits and comment how easy it is to go through the info compared to filling out paperwork. You're never going to see that kind of functionality on a $300 iphone.

First of all I mean nothing on a personal level - I don't know you nor anyone on this board and I wouldn't go so far as to judge. I was simply saying in a lot of professional fields, doing business from a $99 phone is not respectable.
Like I said, I don't know what you do, but in America (you're British I guess?) status is important... you wouldn't go to a doctor who had rats in the lobby would you?

[dbpaddler]

and mikah, let's just agree to disagree. Obviously it's come down to differences of opinion and and in your case those that don't feel the way you do are just wrong for thinking that way. So keep up that wonderful rationale and go pick on the desktop syncers now. Have a nice day

[Reeves]

and mikah, let's just agree to disagree. Obviously it's come down to differences of opinion and and in your case those that don't feel the way you do are just wrong for thinking that way. So keep up that wonderful rationale and go pick on the desktop syncers now. Have a nice day

Look, sir. I don't think you are wrong for wanting expandable storage. You wouldn't be "wrong" (in any objective sense of the word) if you even wanted the Pre to fire machine gun rounds and grill steaks.

But I get tired (and head-scratchingly confused, actually) when I read people on this site or elsewhere claiming that this was a major misstep for Palm that somehow "goes backward" simply because other a lot of other phones on the market retained this feature, and the Pre did not.

[B-model#CB]

i;d love to hear from the people who answered "Whats a MicroSD card?"

[machx]

I'm not bashing the Centro, the Asus Netbooks, nor canonizing the iPhone... I actually own an EEE 1000H and LOVE the thing it's great. I'm sure the Centro is a great device too... just saying I would just feel funny typing on a tiny cell phone or computer when trying to make a professional presentation. All depends on the field you're in though I guess.

sorry, I'm laughing here and not in a bad way. The british comment was for Micah's benefit when he referred to my coworkers as Luddites. Was poking a little fun there.

It's tough to judge the Centro at $99 when previous Palm phones went for the same premium as win mob, symbian and bb phones. It's just that those companies weren't selling for a $1 a share and needed a revival with a $100 palm phone being the necessary infusion to hopefully tide them over to the launch of the Pre. You had many 650, 700 and 755 owners (who all paid a premium for a smartphone) switch to the much cheaper Centro. Didn't mean they lost functionality. I don't see the Centro as a lesser device than the more expensive smartphones out there just because it's priced at $100. It just makes it a bargain.

And you should look up the Samsung NC10, Lenovo S10, MSI Wind and the Asus 1002HA. Netbooks have progressed a great deal from the little Asus Eee 7" models that first came out. They're hardly toylike and from an image point of view have had nothing but positive comments from anyone that's seen it from college students on up to doctors, CEO's and business owners. It's easier to throw in the bag than my XPS1330 and I get about six hours of battery life from it which is a huge plus in the field. Most $1000+ sub notebooks don't get that kind of run time unless you're throwing on giant batteries that kill the weight savings.

So I don't see the comparison of the Centro and a netbook for heavy business use in front of important people to walking into a rat infested doctor's office. And I live in the middle of status central of the Philly burbs. Also using doctors to make your point about a Palm device is definitely barking up the wrong tree. Many docs carry palm because of the medical software available for it, epocrates being one of the more mainstream ones. We use a Tungsten to do all our patient tracking. Have it attached to a bar code scanner to scan in the implants used and then upload it to a main database. Patients use it to input how they're doing when they come in for follow up visits and comment how easy it is to go through the info compared to filling out paperwork. You're never going to see that kind of functionality on a $300 iphone.

[Vyruz Reaper]

off of palm's website:

Memory
8GB of user storage (~7.4GB user available)
USB mass storage support

[dbpaddler]

I'm in and out of hospitals and offices all day. All my info is needed on the fly, sometimes in the operating room, sometimes while talking to docs, sometimes while talking to purchasing. I've not seen one person care what I was typing on. Think they care more about my ability to access information quickly and present it to them, not the package that I'm doing it with. And most professional road warriors that I know see the Sammy and immediately complain about carrying around their big 15" laptop and that it would be perfect for the road. Maybe it's a New England thing.

And most know me as a gadget geek anyway, I'm pretty much expected to have the newest or smallest this or that, and the Samy netbook would garner more attention than the latest macbook (plus they know I'm not an apple person) or even my XPS. Heck, the XPS just looks like every other notebook out there. They see the small netbook and are impressed it runs windows and does everything else a normal notebook can do outside of the optical drive. I've probably had about 5-10 people buy them after seeing mine. Though they had to drop an extra $100 (thank you MS Cashback and ebay).

I'm not bashing the Centro, the Asus Netbooks, nor canonizing the iPhone... I actually own an EEE 1000H and LOVE the thing it's great. I'm sure the Centro is a great device too... just saying I would just feel funny typing on a tiny cell phone or computer when trying to make a professional presentation. All depends on the field you're in though I guess.

and mikah...there's no doubt the Pre will sell, and hopefully sell big for Palm's sake. I, like many others are just extremely disappointed that they are pretty much abandoning the many reasons many of us have been loyal to Palm over the years and even more disappointed that to get all this new and improved technology we have to give up things we were hoping to gain and then some with a new and improved device. You see bits and pieces of things you want in many other phones (as mentioned in this and other threads), but they're never the whole package. The Pre was supposed to be the whole package, the reason you stuck with Palm and didn't venture elsewhere. Bought a Centro for the last stand of the PalmOS with the hopes that Nova would be everything we've been looking and holding out for.

Instead it's just going to be the best of what's out there. Well hopefully it will be with a few slick things the others don't have along with the me to stuff and of course the couple things we wish it did have or would do. So the ideal successor to the POS phone is still elusive. Since the maturity of Palm from the Pilot. Seeing windows mobile devices and PDA's in general mature. Then see them take multiple steps back when converged into phones, seeing the slightest of incremental changes in new models and always moaning and groaning about missing this or that. It would've just been nice to see the Pre be the complete package. Could care less about the fat middle and such. They haven't been there since the beginning and watched the evolution of these devices. And they don't even care. It's stupid tech-centric people like us that care. And thus we're here, venting.

And not to mention I'm going to have to listen to the many iphone people I know laugh at my measly 8 gigs when they have 16 or 32 (if iphone beats palm to the launch0. I wonder what would happen if Apple would just officially announce a 32gb model and a nice firmware update before the Pre went on sale. Wonder if it would put a dent in expected Pre sales.

[darnell]

Only reason I've got an 8GB card is because I'm waiting for the Class 6 16GB Microsd cards and from there the class 6 32GB microsd cards. For some 8 is enough, but I'll gladly take and use more. The Palm Pre simply does not support what I desire in a device.

And having a MicroSD card to restore a backup from is a fantastic benefit.

[dbpaddler]

That definitely is one reason why the 16gb card isn't a popular choice in the poll. They're class 2 right now, slow as hell and not worth the money.

Only reason I've got an 8GB card is because I'm waiting for the Class 6 16GB Microsd cards and from there the class 6 32GB microsd cards. For some 8 is enough, but I'll gladly take and use more. The Palm Pre simply does not support what I desire in a device.

And having a MicroSD card to restore a backup from is a fantastic benefit.

[Reeves]

and mikah...there's no doubt the Pre will sell, and hopefully sell big for Palm's sake. I, like many others are just extremely disappointed that they are pretty much abandoning the many reasons many of us have been loyal to Palm over the years and even more disappointed that to get all this new and improved technology we have to give up things we were hoping to gain and then some with a new and improved device. You see bits and pieces of things you want in many other phones (as mentioned in this and other threads), but they're never the whole package. The Pre was supposed to be the whole package, the reason you stuck with Palm and didn't venture elsewhere. Bought a Centro for the last stand of the PalmOS with the hopes that Nova would be everything we've been looking and holding out for.

My friend, there's no such thing. For me, the Pre is missing a 4-inch screen VGA screen and the video/photo capabilities of an N95. For others, it's a D-pad and Garnet compatibility. You shouldn't be "extremely disappointed" that it didn't meet your every expectation. Indeed, you should never have had that expectation in the first place.

Instead it's just going to be the best of what's out there. Well hopefully it will be with a few slick things the others don't have along with the me to stuff and of course the couple things we wish it did have or would do. So the ideal successor to the POS phone is still elusive. Since the maturity of Palm from the Pilot. Seeing windows mobile devices and PDA's in general mature. Then see them take multiple steps back when converged into phones, seeing the slightest of incremental changes in new models and always moaning and groaning about missing this or that. It would've just been nice to see the Pre be the complete package. Could care less about the fat middle and such. They haven't been there since the beginning and watched the evolution of these devices. And they don't even care. It's stupid tech-centric people like us that care. And thus we're here, venting.

That's a bad kind of love for Palm, tho. Palm needs new blood to survive. The Treo faithful aint enough.

And not to mention I'm going to have to listen to the many iphone people I know laugh at my measly 8 gigs when they have 16 or 32 (if iphone beats palm to the launch0. I wonder what would happen if Apple would just officially announce a 32gb model and a nice firmware update before the Pre went on sale. Wonder if it would put a dent in expected Pre sales.

Not in any significant way. Nobody is buying a Palm Pre because they are waiting for Apple to make an even bigger iPhone. That would be absurd since the Pre has only half the storage, right?

And firmware update? Apple hasn't changed the OS significantly since January of 2007. It's almost February of 2009.

[eekinsman]

I said it before, and I'll say it again: THE AVERAGE PERSON DOESNT KNOW WHAT MICROSD IS, AND IF THEY DO, 1% (if that) WILL BE UPSET.

Then, according to you Machx, the vast vast majority of the world can only take what, 10 pics on their digital cameras before they must download because they are ignorant of SD cards? Its only fringe power camera users who know or care about removable memory?
Many good points have been made in this thread pro and con (though far too many personal attacks). But supporting your claim by stating, "THE AVERAGE PERSON DOESNT KNOW WHAT MICROSD IS" ???????