[Gameboy70]

I don't understand the logic in the omission of removable memory. Most of the posts seem to point that WebOS' take on its interaction with the cloud is to download (that's the word Roger McNamee used.) to local what you need before you need it [my emphasis]. This is great for me; I fly often...it's ironic that a 100% cloud-dependant phone is useless...when you're in the clouds!

If the Pre "absolutely is a convergence - for your data"...why are they capping us at 8 GB?

You would download the files you need before your flight, not during. Given the GPS/Calendar-based contextual downloading McNamee mentioned in the interview, data retrieval could be set to happen automagically, not unlike OTA podcast downloading with pTunes -- but less interruptive, thanks to multitasking.

[machx]

Floppy disk, anyone???

Sorry....couldn't resist.

LOL I know right... I sound like an old timer!

I'm actually very technologically oriented, just the whole removable card thing never caught on with me. They turned me off when they phased out SD cards and rendered the hundreds $ I'd spent on them useless. So since then I've been against buying them...stupid reason, I know. I've geared myself more towards internet radio, connectivity, cloud computing, and all that garbage that I think they're aiming this phone towards.

[compneo]

The bottom line is that if they would have thrown an expansion slot on the Pre, that would have eliminated a major complaint/restriction that is a con for the Pre. Regardless of the reason they did not add it, they could have really cut back the complaints by putting the card slot there. Hopefully there will be on in the future that does allow expansion via microsd.

[Gameboy70]

A card slot isn't something that's just "thrown in"; it's an engineering choice that has to be balanced among other factors like size and cost.

It doesn't really matter whether people complain about it, only whether or not they buy it. People complain about the iPhone all the time -- irrelevant.

I remember an interview with Eric Sink taking about charging for software. He was asked how to price your application to avoid complaints. He said that people will always complain. "If you charge for software, people will complain about the price. If you give it away, people will complain that it takes up too much memory. If you have Salma Hayek personally install it for them, they'll complain that they prefer blondes."

Just because McNamee called it a "convergence" device doesn't mean that the Pre is a PMP replacement. There's not much point to debating over amoeba words like "convergence" anyway. Converging your data doesn't necessarily mean storing it all in a single, permanent archive.

[Rhody]

LOL I know right... I sound like an old timer!

I'm actually very technologically oriented, just the whole removable card thing never caught on with me. They turned me off when they phased out SD cards and rendered the hundreds $ I'd spent on them useless. So since then I've been against buying them...stupid reason, I know. I've geared myself more towards internet radio, connectivity, cloud computing, and all that garbage that I think they're aiming this phone towards.

I think you're right. I believe Palm is looking forward and hoping the Pre is a strong device for the next 5-10 years. And so two years from now, we will not be happy with 8GB or even 100GB on our phone. It will get to a point where we cannot possibly put everything on our phone even with a MicroSD card.

Palm is probably doing everything they can to make the Pre future-proof, not present-proof. Even considering the present, we have cloud-based photo storage (e.g., Flickr, Photobucket, etc.), video hosting (e.g., YouTube, MySpace, etc.), Internet radio (e.g., Pandora, Live360, SiriusXM, etc.), streaming movies (e.g., Netflix, Hulu, etc.), and online PIM solutions (e.g., Google, Live, Yahoo, etc.). We may be carrying around 32GB of photos, music, and video now, but we will probably be putting it all in the cloud in a year or two.

One problem with this is that people are reluctant to change. It took my parents forever to get a DVD player or to shop online. Now they're on eBay with their laptops while they watch HD movies they recorded on their DVR. That could present some inertia for the initial launch of the Pre. That and the time it takes for application providers to present practical implementations of the cloud-based services on WebOS.

Another problem is that streaming everything from the cloud is a battery draining process. I would like to watch movies, listen to music, check my email, and check my calendar all with one device, but I don't want to charge that device 10 times a day.

[SolarPlexus]

Floppy disk, anyone???

Sorry....couldn't resist.

best post of this whole thread

[compneo]

Gameboy70: I hope you realize that I used the term throwing in a microsd slot figuratively. I, as well as many others here, know that they have to be engineered into the phone. We also realize that there are certain factors/reasons that keep things from being implemented. With that being said, this device still has an 8GB data storage restriction. That may work for some, but may not for others.

[cardfan]

Eh...rather than debate about 8gb and whatever, i think its more interesting to see people's comments such as..well i won't quote..i'll summarize it:

"The Pre is a phone first, than a pda"

"if i want to listen to music, i'll use my ipod"

"if i need to watch movies, i'll use my ipod touch"

"the Pre doesn't replace a pmp and its not meant to"

"they're not competing against apple, they want martians instead" ok..i made that up..lol

I can only say to this, if Palm puts a good player on it, then they can market it any freaking way they want and sell it any way they want along with the cloud goodness that is webOS.

Again, palm + amazon + sprint = anything apple can dish out. Palm is in the mobile computing business...not solely the phone business. They got Mr. Ipod himself there from apple.

Palm said no more pda's unless there's demand for them. They didn't say anything about not producing an equivalent or better to the ipod.

I'll even go further and say i expect non-phone devices from Palm. After the Pre of course.

To not do so is to not take advantage of the innovative OS they have now. To not work on changing people's perceptions is a challenge they shouldn't walk away from.

Just overnight they've turned Palm into a buzzword again by flashing the Pre at CES. Something tells me they didn't tell all yet...hence the word..Pre.

[erwos]

I tend to agree that 8gb is on the lesser-end of what I would want. I currently use a Zune 30 for my PMP needs, and I think I usually use ~20gb of that. I could probably squeeze down to 8gb with a bit of thought, but 16gb would be better. Maybe I'll wait for the Palm Pre v2. *shrugs*

[mobileman]

Of that 8gb, how much will be available to the user? I'm assuming the OS, and 3rd party app, pictures, and such. On my 16gb iphone, not all 16gb is available.

[machx]

I really don't think the majority of it's buyers are looking for an mp3 player as a primary consideration. Even with the iPhone, people are looking for a cool smart phone, and the idea that it plays music is a cool +. For the average user it's not worth paying $30 a month for data just so that you can say my phone has 64 GB of space.

I can relate to the concern, but I think for the majority of the market, memory is a low concern compared to function, features, and form, and expansion card space is an extremely low concern in making a purchase. (that is if they even know what it is!)

[mobileman]

I really don't think the majority of it's buyers are looking for an mp3 player as a primary consideration. Even with the iPhone, people are looking for a cool smart phone, and the idea that it plays music is a cool +. For the average user it's not worth paying $30 a month for data just so that you can say my phone has 64 GB of space.

I can relate to the concern, but I think for the majority of the market, memory is a low concern compared to function, features, and form, and expansion card space is an extremely low concern in making a purchase. (that is if they even know what it is!)

Not sure I agree. One of the selling points to the iPhone is convergence of two devices. I only carry one device around now.

[west3man]

LOL I know right... I sound like an old timer!

I'm actually very technologically oriented, just the whole removable card thing never caught on with me. They turned me off when they phased out SD cards and rendered the hundreds $ I'd spent on them useless. So since then I've been against buying them...stupid reason, I know. I've geared myself more towards internet radio, connectivity, cloud computing, and all that garbage that I think they're aiming this phone towards.

This reminds me of one reason that I'm open to the Pre's storage system.

I've been chasing Palm's storage solutions for years. I got sd cards then they went to mini sd's. I got mini's and they went to micro's. I got a micro sd and now they've gone to no expansion slot.

At least internal storage costs me no more $$$.

[johncc]

...
Palm is probably doing everything they can to make the Pre future-proof, not present-proof.
...

That is exactly my complaint. By including only 8Gb, they aren't.

[Gameboy70]

Gameboy70: I hope you realize that I used the term throwing in a microsd slot figuratively. I, as well as many others here, know that they have to be engineered into the phone. We also realize that there are certain factors/reasons that keep things from being implemented. With that being said, this device still has an 8GB data storage restriction. That may work for some, but may not for others.

My reply was equally figurative. The point was that omitting memory expansion was probably not a decision that was made lightly, but an engineering compromise for a first-gen product. Palm hasn't made a fixed-memory smartphone since the 180/270/300 -- also a first-gen product.

There is no smartphone utopia. Every device involves a set of compromises. Is the lack of removable memory a liability? Absolutely. No one would argue that having no microSD slot is a point in the Pre's favor. The real question is whether or not it's a decisive liability.

The iPhone was released with no third-party apps, and not even a hint of an SDK for several months into the product's life. If your need for aftermarket apps was absolute, you simply had to get another phone -- end of discussion. People could (and did) gripe about Apple's decision, but the options were clear: take the iWay or the highway.

The fact that the Pre wasn't designed as a PMP doesn't mean that you shouldn't want it to be. But it's already been specified that the Pre has 8GB of fixed storage. So what's the point of debating whether or not it's actually a "convergence" device? If > 8GB = convergence for your usage patterns, then you're in the market for another smartphone.

I think it comes down to clarifying to yourself what's acceptable. I find the lack of a microSD slot exasperating, but not unacceptable; otherwise I'd pass on the Pre and wait for the next generation.

[santas]

I really don't think the majority of it's buyers are looking for an mp3 player as a primary consideration. Even with the iPhone, people are looking for a cool smart phone, and the idea that it plays music is a cool +. For the average user it's not worth paying $30 a month for data just so that you can say my phone has 64 GB of space.

I can relate to the concern, but I think for the majority of the market, memory is a low concern compared to function, features, and form, and expansion card space is an extremely low concern in making a purchase. (that is if they even know what it is!)

But that's not true. Apple gets $100 more for throwing in an extra 8gb. And you hear people talking about wanting to get the 32gb model when it comes out. And that's just not tech users.

[west3man]

I really don't think the majority of it's buyers are looking for an mp3 player as a primary consideration. Even with the iPhone, people are looking for a cool smart phone, and the idea that it plays music is a cool +. For the average user it's not worth paying $30 a month for data just so that you can say my phone has 64 GB of space.

I can relate to the concern, but I think for the majority of the market, memory is a low concern compared to function, features, and form, and expansion card space is an extremely low concern in making a purchase. (that is if they even know what it is!)

I think you're wrong about the iPhone's music capabilities just being icing on an already really tasty cake. I think it is an iPod and a phone. That's the whole point of the device.

If anything, the fact that it goes online and has games, represents the icing.


But I don't own an iPhone, so take my opinion for whatever little it's worth. Folks I've talked to think it's cool as hell and want one for the prestige and the iTunes love.

[compneo]

I think it comes down to clarifying to yourself what's acceptable. I find the lack of a microSD slot exasperating, but not unacceptable; otherwise I'd pass on the Pre and wait for the next generation.

I completely agree. As I have stated before, if SERO is allowed, I will be purchasing the day it is released. No microSD sucks, but that is what the following upgrade will include (hopefully).

[santas]

I think it comes down to clarifying to yourself what's acceptable. I find the lack of a microSD slot exasperating, but not unacceptable; otherwise I'd pass on the Pre and wait for the next generation.

Sadly, I agree with you. Between the limited memory and having to wait till the end of the year to get a subsidized international version I'm going to have to pass.

The frustrating thing to me and I think others on this board is that for the last 5 years, we've had our "converged" devices in our pocket, and they were all made by Palm. After this long wait for the new and improved OS, we're looking at a device that may not meet our needs.

[machx]

I think you're wrong about the iPhone's music capabilities just being icing on an already really tasty cake. I think it is an iPod and a phone. That's the whole point of the device.

If anything, the fact that it goes online and has games, represents the icing.


But I don't own an iPhone, so take my opinion for whatever little it's worth. Folks I've talked to think it's cool as hell and want one for the prestige and the iTunes love.

I really disagree.

If you have an iPhone, what do you show off to your friends? the fact that it can play music and sync with iTunes? They show off the games, the web browser, iBoobs, etc. Do they really show off that they can play songs? I don't think so. Any phone can do that