[cgk]

Yup, and that's exactly how the developers at Palm are acting. They need to get outside their cubicles where they all have access to Exchange, and likely have no idea that it is extremely expensive for a company to add Exchange. Not every business owner can just borrow 100 million to keep the company afloat, and continue to buy their employees Exchange...

Since this is aimed at consumers and not businesses - why should palm care? Exchange seems to be stick in there because they can. The vast majority of people who buy this phone are going to say "desk what know? Outwhere?"

[meyerweb]

What data?

PIM data - Your desktop syncs with the cloud, your phone syncs with the cloud. Admittedly the desktop portion may require development; however there are free solutions even today, and there are low-cost Exchange providers you can use as well.(check out www.nuevasync.com for free alternative).

And just how does my desktop sync with the cloud if I don't use Outlook? Hopefully, someone will develop a solution, but I haven't seen one yet.

I stopped syncing my devices a long time ago, I just use an Exchange server now. No extra cords to deal with, nothing to worry about backing up every X days.

Hmm, and does EAS backup and sync tasks and notes? Does it back up all your non Outlook email? Does it back up data like that in Passwords Plus, or Pocket Quicken?

Aside from the fact that not everyone wants to use Outlook, EAS doesn't back up all your data. Not even close.

[palmdoc#AC]

I live in a place where ALL the Internet provides suck and their "best effort" sometimes results in long periods of downtime.
I would need to see a local sync option to get data from the PC onto the Pre or whatever.

[SedahDrol]

It's not a deal killer for me since the only reason I do any local syncing with my treo is for backup/restore.

I would never use outlook due to it's innate insecurity. I remember back in the day of real email (purely text based) when you couldn't catch a virus, outlook single handedly changed that.

My Treo is my PIM it's with me all the time (even when I'm not supposed to have it). Many of the Pre's features will be wasted on me, I don't have GMail, I don't do facebook. I don't store my information all over the net.

For those that only use Outlook for your PIM management, my condolences. Don't get me wrong I understand it's appeal, but most things Microsoft is like a Siamese cat, it's really sweet at first but eventually it'll bite you in the end. Though I must admit I am biased against Microsoft. BTW I do use all 3 major OS's (Mac OS X, Windows XP, and Linux).

I am sure that for those of you who only want to keep your info on your Pre and Desktop there will be some solution for you. Unfortunately it probably won't be a real time solution. That means you make a change on your phone or computer when they are physically apart, you'll have to wait till they are physically connected again.

[eekinsman]

Since this is aimed at consumers and not businesses - why should palm care? Exchange seems to be stick in there because they can. The vast majority of people who buy this phone are going to say "desk what know? Outwhere?"

Many times the question has been asked by CGK, "why should Palm care?" Is providing or allowing local sync that much of an effort? I mean lets not forget by all accounts Palm is very close to total failure. Is now really the time to get cute? Its wonderful that Palm is going after new users who never herd of or want HotSync. Great. But, given that this is a do or die deal for Palm, why give the loyal base a reason to stay away?

[Q]

1) Palm wants the Pre to be able to sync to as many different things out there as possible. Given how many companies have Exchange servers, it doesn't make sense to leave that out.

2) Even if Palm doesn't offer a local sync option themselves, companies like Chapura are in the Mojo developer group. Someone will come out with something, maybe even by launch time.

[MisterB#WN]

Since this is aimed at consumers and not businesses - why should palm care? Exchange seems to be stick in there because they can. The vast majority of people who buy this phone are going to say "desk what know? Outwhere?"

Says who? Just because it has an OS that is pretty, doesn't mean it isn't also designed for business. From what I can tell, this device is supposed to be for both business and personal use. People want a device they can use during the day, and also use at home and at play in the evenings and weekends. Our lives are dynamic and multi-dimensional.

Remember, why would they even have an Exchange option if the phone wasn't also designed for business? Exchange is a corporate option. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. They've got both extremes covered, but apparently not the sweet spot in the middle.

[gadgetluva]

Did you buy an Exchange server, or are you just renting one of these web based systems?

i just use one, mail2web. Works great.

[gadgetluva]

And just how does my desktop sync with the cloud if I don't use Outlook? Hopefully, someone will develop a solution, but I haven't seen one yet.



Hmm, and does EAS backup and sync tasks and notes? Does it back up all your non Outlook email? Does it back up data like that in Passwords Plus, or Pocket Quicken?

Aside from the fact that not everyone wants to use Outlook, EAS doesn't back up all your data. Not even close.

I don't really back up anything...besides some files that I know I need. But all PIM data is backed up, my emails are stored in the cloud, and for extra programs like Flexwallet, I just keep a copy stored on my desktop.

[schnoid]

First of all, we still don't know if there will be a local sync or not. I assume palm isn't going to expect everyone to have exchange. I'm also hoping for local sync, but if there isn't, there will either be a good alternative or a 3rd party will come through really quick. I've been with my 755p for quite awhile now and really if all that has been promised already comes through then I can't imagine anything else will be a deal killer. Most important for me is that there is some way of syncing Outlook, and I can't imagine any new phone would leave that out.

Also, as I said in the Poll about microSD, there is a large majority that lies somewhere in the middle, where it's not a deal killer (mostly cause there is no better phone for sprint), but most will be severely disappointed if it's left out. Palm has gone through great lengths to make the Pre a major contender in the cell phone market and will not doubt dig into the huge iphone user base. If they've put this much effort into this phone I doubt they would leave out basic expected functionality and features.

Until I hear otherwise I'm going to assume palm will come through with all our (those of us in the treocentral community) expectations. So far on my list of major disappointments with the Pre if they're not announced will be 1) local sync, 2) microSD, and 3) flash support. Price and battery life will also be a major question mark, but thats pretty straight foward.

[gadgetluva]

I think that a lot of the target group Palm is going for don't use Outlook or some other official computer program to manage their PIM info. As is showcased by the device webOS, Palm expects alot of users to have their information scattered all over the place, mostly through gmail and facebook and the like. Us TCers are the minority, and although many people do use Outlook to manage their lives (although most of my mid 20 yr old professional friends don't besides work stuff), most keep things all over the place. So, syncing to a PC really isn't a big deal. Most of my friends never sync anything with their computer. Same target group that Palm seems to be going after.

[eekinsman]

Even assuming your opinion below is accurate, why in the world wouldn't Palm cast a larger net on such a simple and heretofore standard feature: Synchronization. Palm needs to catch as many fish as possible. I want the cloud and sync cable and I want to choose .

I think that a lot of the target group Palm is going for don't use Outlook or some other official computer program to manage their PIM info. As is showcased by the device webOS, Palm expects alot of users to have their information scattered all over the place, mostly through gmail and facebook and the like. Us TCers are the minority, and although many people do use Outlook to manage their lives (although most of my mid 20 yr old professional friends don't besides work stuff), most keep things all over the place. So, syncing to a PC really isn't a big deal. Most of my friends never sync anything with their computer. Same target group that Palm seems to be going after.

[MisterB#WN]

Even assuming your opinion below is accurate, why in the world wouldn't Palm cast a larger net on such a simple and heretofore standard feature: Synchronization. Palm needs to catch as many fish as possible. I want the cloud and sync cable and I want to choose .

No kidding. For a company that has really struggled over the past few years financially, it would be to their advantage to not only attract new customers (and win back those they lost like me to BlackBerry), but to also keep their loyal customer base.

Listen, I've been through these experiences where I go with a different PDA, only to be very surprised with something. Take buying a BlackBerry, for instance. I figured it would surely come with a program like Palm Dekstop to keep sync my PIM data. The rep at Sprint confirmed that it did include such a program (yeah, I know... you can't trust those guys). I was very disapointed when I got the phone home that it did not include any type of program to sync with. BlackBerry assumed I already owned Outlook (which I did not). So, I had to go out and purchase Outlook, get my data from Palm Desktop into it, and then get it to sync with my BlackBerry. It was a pain in the neck, and took the fun out of it... not to mention I was without my data while I was messing with all of this.

I don't want to go buy the Pre and have the same thing happen to me where I get expensive surprises. "Oh, you didn't know you need to upgrade to Exchange server to sync your tasks, calendar, and contacts"? No thanks. I want to know up front.

[jhoff80]

No kidding. For a company that has really struggled over the past few years financially, it would be to their advantage to not only attract new customers (and win back those they lost like me to BlackBerry), but to also keep their loyal customer base.

Listen, I've been through these experiences where I go with a different PDA, only to be very surprised with something. Take buying a BlackBerry, for instance. I figured it would surely come with a program like Palm Dekstop to keep sync my PIM data. The rep at Sprint confirmed that it did include such a program (yeah, I know... you can't trust those guys). I was very disapointed when I got the phone home that it did not include any type of program to sync with. BlackBerry assumed I already owned Outlook (which I did not). So, I had to go out and purchase Outlook, get my data from Palm Desktop into it, and then get it to sync with my BlackBerry. It was a pain in the neck, and took the fun out of it... not to mention I was without my data while I was messing with all of this.

I don't want to go buy the Pre and have the same thing happen to me where I get expensive surprises. "Oh, you didn't know you need to upgrade to Exchange server to sync your tasks, calendar, and contacts"? No thanks. I want to know up front.

Off topic, but you screwed yourself there: http://na.blackberry.com/eng/services/desktop/

[BaDZeD]

I think there will be local sync. Why is Chapura (www.chapura.com) one of the main developer partners? All they do is sync various platforms with outlook.

[jhoff80]

I think there will be local sync. Why is Chapura (www.chapura.com) one of the main developer partners? All they do is sync various platforms with outlook.

You're probably right, which is why many of us are saying its way too early to worry about this stuff.

[schnoid]

I think there will be local sync. Why is Chapura (www.chapura.com) one of the main developer partners? All they do is sync various platforms with outlook.

good call! Like I said, it's too early to tell, but if it has a good outlook sync natively or through third party, I don't care either way. As long as it works well, I'm happy.

[MisterB#WN]

Off topic, but you screwed yourself there: http://na.blackberry.com/eng/services/desktop/

You obviously don't own a BlackBerry. Nice try, but you don't know what you're talking about. That software serves as the conduit between the BlackBerry and Outlook. It is NOT a stand alone PIM like Palm Desktop.

[jhoff80]

You obviously don't own a BlackBerry. Nice try, but you don't know what you're talking about. That software serves as the conduit between the BlackBerry and Outlook. It is NOT a stand alone PIM like Palm Desktop.

My brother does, and I used that software for him to transfer his contacts and calendar from his iPhone, to the built in Windows address book and calendar, to his Blackberry Bold. So, actually, I do know what I'm talking about. He does not have Outlook, but instead Windows Address Book and Windows Calendar.

[Trevante]

You obviously don't own a BlackBerry. Nice try, but you don't know what you're talking about. That software serves as the conduit between the BlackBerry and Outlook. It is NOT a stand alone PIM like Palm Desktop.

http://na.blackberry.com/eng/service...tab_tab_sysreq

Under system requirements:

Organizer Support

* IBM Lotus Notes 6, 6.5, 7, 8
* Microsoft Outlook 2002, 2003, 2007
* Microsoft Outlook Express 6, Microsoft Windows Contacts (Vista Address Book)
* Novell® GroupWise® 6.5, 7.0
* Yahoo!® PIM

Fairly sure Outlook Express came with XP and probably Vista too (not sure since i installed Office 07 and it overwrote it), but overall you didn't have to do go buy Outlook to sync your Blackberry.