[slinky]

This afternoon I was fortunate enough to have Verizon Wireless replace my Treo 600 with a 650 (don't ask, they finally made good on a nightmare they caused for July 4th weekend.) I was originally wondering "do I upgrade my Treo 600 to a 650?" I'm sure many of you are in the same boat. With my first impressions (and a full review on my upcoming web site at armchairdictator.com), the answer is "definitely no" for most of you. I'll outline the pros and cons of the 650 in contrast to the 600 that were glaring, out of the box.

Overall: 3.5 out of 5 stars.

Summary: It's the best PDA phone out there but Palm's marketing department made it clear that they really don't want to make a great phone, but provide you with just enough to need/want to upgrade and spend as much money as possible. Your next phone may just be something other than a Palm as they have allowed others to seriously close the gap and in some areas, surpass the Treo.

Pros: There are some improvements for the $400 you'll spend to upgrade your Treo 600 and the question is whether it's really worth it. I'll list the most glaring:

1. Screen: The resolution, at long last, has finally been upgraded to 320 x 320. This was late in the game and it is welcome and looks beautiful, no question. If you really need to view pictures at their best, then you have your answer. It will help you read Repligo documents if you do a lot of that too. But in terms of actually reading more letters, the truth is that the display doesn't allow you for a greater resolution that will allow you to see more "document space" because practically the font needs to be about the same size as you see on the Treo 600. But no question, this is a big plus.

2. Replaceable battery. Finally, the battery can be replaced as it should be but it comes with a price - life is much less than the 600 by a large margin. Talk time is now 150 minutes or 2.5 hours versus 240 minutes with the 600. With the 600 I could leave it uncharged for a day or two and still yak. Was truly amazing. I don't know how the battery will be but 150 minutes is acceptable as long as you can have a spare and this is still a big plus as opposed to "external battery."

3. Bluetooth. I never use it and most I know don't. Kills the battery, headsets don't work so well and unless you use it for a modem (most don't) it's worthless but it is a plus and some like it. WiFi would have been MUCH more useful but I won't dock Palm for this because all wireless phone providers have been @#@$s and have crippled the use so they can sell you on expensive high speed plans. I use Boingo with my laptop for $22/mo. and it's amazing. This is still a plus.

4. Keyboard. Hard to say with this one. I personally feel the old keyboard was easier to type because the keys are slippery. This one is personal but the keyboard raised is better in ways so I'll list it as a pro.

5. Software package. I don't know yet whether the "complimentary" applications on the CD come with the 650 or are limited crippled versions. If they are full versions, it's nice to have the equivalent of a real mail program and Microsoft office doc converters. For now, this is a plus until someone tells me what I think may be the case...

6. Camera. On the dark side the camera should have been given the ability to have 1 MP instead of staying the same and a flash could have been added. However, the software and quality seem to have improved. Albeit slight, I'll give this a plus as well.

CONS

1. Memory. In the world of technology, storage on the HD/RAM and otherwise always increase or processors get faster. For Palm to stick the same 32 MB of RAM in this unit is a disgrace and insult to consumers, especially saying "well you can run applications off an SD card" and providing a storage system that stores LESS than the 600 does. Not only doesn't that work much of the time but it's also a lot slower amongst other issues. There is no PDA phone that has even close to such little RAM and there is no logical reason why to skimp here and it hurts. Fortunately Palm has released a fix for the VFS storage system so memory is the same as the Treo 600 but this is the biggest negative and it is significant, especially if you use your PDA frequently. Having various apps in the phone takes up storage. If you have a large contact database that's even more. You'll find that you need at least 6MB free to properly use applications that use mapping programs and less than 5MB RAM free will probably slow up the unit considerably. As is the way with the world since they take into account larger memory storage, current/updated Palm applications have considerably larger footprints. No excuse Palm - you just wanted to make us to buy the next version.

2. Sluggish Menus. There is a delay in switiching to various menus that list your applications and going from screen to screen. Not sure why but it's certainly noticeable over the 600. I'm noticing resets but this may be something I have to work out due to Agendus, not sure.

3. No Cover/Case, no wrist strap. After getting my phone out of the store I wanted to put it in the stock case to protect it until I got home. After searching through the bag I've found that Palm provides no case or protection whatsoever. Another corner cut and this hurts because you need one of some sort, especially to grip this baby. There is also no hole for a wrist strap (was anyone listening at Palm), something that has been standard on most PDA phones for years. Be prepared to shell out for a case and protect your phone in some proprietary way until you get it in the mail -- there are no cases in stores here in New York that I could find. Absurd that this was not included.

4. New Accessories. Remember Palm's claim of their universal adapter? For no reason I can fathom, Palm decided to create a new and truly inferior connector for the Palm 650. Toss your old accessories and it costs real money. The flimsy sync cable does not have any pushbutton clips that will safely remove your sync cable from the phone. It's simply a "shove it in, yank it out" clip that is waiting to break. Worse, the sync cable cannot also power the phone if you want to take it on a road trip. You must use the power adapter to plug into the sync cable, which has this one little tiny ballpoint pen ending that sticks into the cable or the phone. Flimsy and absurd and it too is "shove and yank."

5. Side Buttons. Minor peeve is that the side buttons are much easier to press - they are rockered. I think that it's slightly cheaper made. This is a small negative but an FYI. The home and menu buttons will take some getting used to but I may like them better where they are.

6. Phone On/Off Button. I personally liked the ability to have a dedicated button to turn the phone radio on and off. While this is not a big deal and you now hold down the phone button, it's a negative if you used those buttons for something else such as a double launcher for apps.

Conclusion: There are some pros to the phone. Is it kind of neat to see the high resolution screen? Sure. Is it nice to have a replaceable battery, yah. But to even think of paying $300-400 for an "upgrade" is ridiculous. The RAM limitation itself is probably one of the big reasons not to upgrade and wait, save the money for the next generation. It's a real limitation if you use the palm regularly, for power users and probably for most of you who are even considering upgrading your 600 and paying the cash. The fact that you also have to blow a chunk of change on new accessories is another serious consideration and you'll have to factor that into the equation. While you may have a little 650 envy, honestly, it's not nearly worth the money to upgrade -- and then to get locked into another 2 year contract. You'll wait even longer to get the phone you REALLY want -- the next one that will definitely have sufficient RAM and may even have some type of WiFi enabled. Power users should consider whether a 1 year contract ($450) is really worth than kind of money - it's almost as much as buying a new Treo 650 without the contract.

Recommendation: The only people who should even consider going from the 600 to the 650 are major power users who need to do a great deal of reading on their phone and will be able to have their company upgrade the 650 to the next generation Treo. All others are best off waiting, not spending the money and locking themselves into a 2 year contract.

[t2gungho]

Slinky: for the most part, pretty much everything you have gone over was hashed out 6 or more months ago.

I do however congratulate you on getting upgraded from the 600 to the 650. Just remember, if you dont like it, you can always go back

[Fender Doc]

In the past few months, I have purchased 2 Treo 650 phones and have returned them to Sprint. The Treo 650 is the dumbest "smart"phone that I have ever seen. Being a private practice physician, having a phone that resets multiple times a day is unacceptable. Further more, both Treo 650 phones would take 5-10 minutes to reset (if it reset at all). Most of the time, I would have to soft reset it.

Practically “living out” of my Treo throughout each day, I would love to have more memory and a high-resolution screen. Currently, I am happily using my stable Treo 600, until the next Treo is released.

I hope the next Treo is a combination of the following:
- Treo
- iPod
- LifeDrive

We will all have to patiently wait to see what Palm has for us.

[t2gungho]

Currently, I am happily using my stable Treo 600, until the next Treo is released.

I hope the next Treo is a combination of the following:
- Treo
- iPod
- LifeDrive

We will all have to patiently wait to see what Palm has for us.

I really want bt 1.2, wifi, and more memory.

[slinky]

Fender Doc - I hear you. It worries me considering that my new Treo 650, practically right out of the store with almost no apps, has reset now 3 times for no apparent reason. I'll report it as we deal with it. The Treo 600 was pretty rock stable after all the issues were ironed out of it just a few months after its release.

TGungHo - I released a "do I upgrade" thread because I think a lot of people are wondering whether they really should splurge. I was lucky because I got mine for free. Provided it doesn't reset as often as it has since I got it just 5 hours ago, I think I'll be happy with it.

[t2gungho]

Fender Doc - I hear you. It worries me considering that my new Treo 650, practically right out of the store with almost no apps, has reset now 3 times for no apparent reason. I'll report it as we deal with it. The Treo 600 was pretty rock stable after all the issues were ironed out of it just a few months after its release.

You got to remember that the memory system is different in it and its OS is different from the 600.

TGungHo - I released a "do I upgrade" thread because I think a lot of people are wondering whether they really should splurge. I was lucky because I got mine for free. Provided it doesn't reset as often as it has since I got it just 5 hours ago, I think I'll be happy with it.

How many people are still wondering if they should upgrade (by my poor calculations, Sprint has had it out for 7 or 8 months now). Aside from firmware upgrades...I wouldnt think Verizons phone would give you too many new issues.

I see your point though.

[slinky]

You got to remember that the memory system is different in it and its OS is different from the 600.

All any user cares about is whether the bloody phone works and doesn't reset several times daily! It is not a technological achievement to get this phone working 90%!!!!

How many people are still wondering if they should upgrade (by my poor calculations, Sprint has had it out for 7 or 8 months now). Aside from firmware upgrades...I wouldnt think Verizons phone would give you too many new issues. I see your point though.

I think many Verizon customers wonder. Every day I get questions about my phone, do I get this one, that one (partially because they love the silicon case that fit my 600 like a glove.) I hear ya too...

[mediasi]

Pros: There are some improvements for the $400 you'll spend to upgrade your Treo 600 and the question is whether it's really worth it. I'll list the most glaring:

Ugh, and it took me more than a week to realize I LOVE my Treo 650. I must be slow - I should have known the minute I got it...

1. Screen: The resolution, at long last, has finally been upgraded to 320 x 320. This was late in the game and it is welcome and looks beautiful, no question. If you really need to view pictures at their best, then you have your answer.

It was a major deal-breaker for me. I'm on VZW and waited for the 650 because I'd experienced the screens on both the 600 and the 650 and the higher resolution is important for much more than pictures.

2. Replaceable battery. Finally, the battery can be replaced as it should be but it comes with a price - life is much less than the 600 by a large margin. Talk time is now 150 minutes or 2.5 hours versus 240 minutes with the 600. With the 600 I could leave it uncharged for a day or two and still yak. Was truly amazing. I don't know how the battery will be but 150 minutes is acceptable as long as you can have a spare and this is still a big plus as opposed to "external battery."

I've seen ads saying 150 minutes and some 5 hours. I have two batteries, and I yak all day, synch each day, log time in (about 20 min./day), play Rummy (30 min/day) and surf the web (probably about 30 min/day). The lowest I've ever gotten is 42% and the average is about 65%. There is quite a bit of time on the battery, depending on how much you use the phone.

5. Software package. I don't know yet whether the "complimentary" applications on the CD come with the 650 or are limited crippled versions. If they are full versions, it's nice to have the equivalent of a real mail program and Microsoft office doc converters. For now, this is a plus until someone tells me what I think may be the case...

Versamail sucked for me, but the rest were all okay for what I needed.

2. Sluggish Menus. There is a delay in switiching to various menus that list your applications and going from screen to screen. Not sure why but it's certainly noticeable over the 600. I'm noticing resets but this may be something I have to work out due to Agendus, not sure.

I don't have any delays at all, so I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly.

3. No Cover/Case, no wrist strap.

Thank heaven there's no wrist strap - those things are just accidents waiting to happen.

5. Side Buttons. Minor peeve is that the side buttons are much easier to press - they are rockered. I think that it's slightly cheaper made. This is a small negative but an FYI. The home and menu buttons will take some getting used to but I may like them better where they are.

This is another thing I have no problems with. I don't find them easier than any other keys to press.

Recommendation: The only people who should even consider going from the 600 to the 650 are major power users who need to do a great deal of reading on their phone and will be able to have their company upgrade the 650 to the next generation Treo. All others are best off waiting, not spending the money and locking themselves into a 2 year contract.

So, in short, the bulk of users who have upgraded (or went with the 650 instead of the 600) wasted our money? I wish I could have come to this conclusion myself in less than 12 hours.

Pamela

[Insertion]

Slinky: for the most part, pretty much everything you have gone over was hashed out 6 or more months ago.

You're startin' to sound a little bit like *ahem* those other guys , (who shall remain nameless.)

[t2gungho]

Insertion: You're startin' to sound a little bit like *ahem* those other guys , (who shall remain nameless.)

I am not involved in the same circles as you ;-) ...your gonna have to fill in the blanks here...who am I sounding like?

[slinky]

It was a major deal-breaker for me. I'm on VZW and waited for the 650 because I'd experienced the screens on both the 600 and the 650 and the higher resolution is important for much more than pictures.

If it's worth $400 to see the pictures better, then good for you that you have plenty of disposable income!

I've seen ads saying 150 minutes and some 5 hours.

You are probably confusing the Verizon version of the phone with the GSM. GSM has far more battery life but, like everything, there are tradeoffs. I'm confident the battery life should be OK although not nearly as long as the incredible 600, even on Verizon.

I don't have any delays at all, so I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly.

After reading threads here, I'm not the only one to notice that the unit does not respond as quickly to simple navigation. Minor quibble but it will get on your nerves if you've used the 600 long enough. Not as much of an issue as the big ones, memory and accessories.

Thank heaven there's no wrist strap - those things are just accidents waiting to happen.

I have no idea what you mean. Given how slippery the Treo 650 is, a wrist strap is extra handy to use while holding the phone. It's not meant to swing the phone around or wear around your neck like a portable MP3 player. The slick Treo 650 without any grip is a real accident waiting to happen. Was the same with the old Motorola V60s - cool phone but waiting to slip out of your hand.

So, in short, the bulk of users who have upgraded (or went with the 650 instead of the 600) wasted our money? I wish I could have come to this conclusion myself in less than 12 hours.

I'm not sure what this means. If a $400 upgrade is worth it for you to view pictures better, then I think you'd probably fall within the minority. For many, I think they probably want to weigh all the pros and cons and I felt that for many this would probably be a time saver to have a condensed version from someone who did upgrade.

Update: The applications on the disc are, as expected, some type of "lite" version. That's not to say that some are not useful such as Documents To Go, which will allow you basic viewing and editing of Word, Excel and Powerpoint documents. Versamail is an acceptable mail program although I use Snappermail. The games people will like. The others are basically freeware, including Adobe's userful pdf reader.

[grndslm]

Wow...I've got a pretty good idea that you think you know everything when really, you don't know jack. Ignorance might be bliss, but occasionaly you're gonna need to listen (or read in this case) to what the wiser and more experienced are telling you.

If it's worth $400 to see the pictures better, then good for you that you have plenty of disposable income!

She said "much more than pictures", wise azz.

You are probably confusing the Verizon version of the phone with the GSM. GSM has far more battery life but, like everything, there are tradeoffs. I'm confident the battery life should be OK although not nearly as long as the incredible 600, even on Verizon.

5 hrs versus 6 hrs ain't that big of a deal...not "far more" in my opinion but the trade-offs that you noted are worth it to me. I'd spare that hour for landline quality phone calls every day of the week. Also, I'd challenge you to find another cell phone with 5 hrs of talk time. I only know of one other with Sprint, and I don't really give a dern about the other carriers but you can look all you want. Also, I'd be willing to bet your 650 that you won't be calling the 600 incredible after you use your new phone for a week or two. Only thing I miss from the 600 is the quick favorites in the phone app. Just up, down, left, or right....no down, down, down, down, down, right, click. But now that I've come to think about it....hardwiring each favorite to a single letter is a bit easier. So, there's nothing that I miss from the 600 then. HAHA.

After reading threads here, I'm not the only one to notice that the unit does not respond as quickly to simple navigation. Minor quibble but it will get on your nerves if you've used the 600 long enough. Not as much of an issue as the big ones, memory and accessories.

2 words: Firmware Update!

I have no idea what you mean. Given how slippery the Treo 650 is, a wrist strap is extra handy to use while holding the phone. It's not meant to swing the phone around or wear around your neck like a portable MP3 player. The slick Treo 650 without any grip is a real accident waiting to happen. Was the same with the old Motorola V60s - cool phone but waiting to slip out of your hand.

A wrist strap?? Are you kidding me?? What percentage of cell phones come with wrist straps?? I don't disagree that the 650's as slippery as a fish, but the solution would be rubber or that egrips ****...it's a phone, man (or woman)!!

I'm not sure what this means. If a $400 upgrade is worth it for you to view pictures better, then I think you'd probably fall within the minority. For many, I think they probably want to weigh all the pros and cons and I felt that for many this would probably be a time saver to have a condensed version from someone who did upgrade.

If you think all of the reasons for upgrading that I list below minus the price that you can sell your "incredible" 600 for equals $400...you need to go take some elementary arithmatic or perhaps learn the value of these new features.

Update: The applications on the disc are, as expected, some type of "lite" version. That's not to say that some are not useful such as Documents To Go, which will allow you basic viewing and editing of Word, Excel and Powerpoint documents. Versamail is an acceptable mail program although I use Snappermail. The games people will like. The others are basically freeware, including Adobe's userful pdf reader.

Are you really the type of person that can't work with the lite versions?? What do you do? BTW, what is it that Snapper can do for you that Versamail can't?? (not trying to start a holy war, just a personal question for the slinkster)

Anyway....here's my list of reasons for upgrading over the 600, which could have been found in another thread had you cared to search:

1) screen
2) bluetooth -->syncing, dun, gps, reverse tethering (almost as good as wifi), etc.
3) better camera (actually usable, plus a mirror for self-portraits, and camcorder functionality) [hey slink, show me a phone that takes pictures as good as this phone with or without a flash...even 1+ MP phones]
4) faster processor
5) keyboard is better in my opinion (inverted colors, backlight, and larger, flatter keys)
6) new layout of keys (i.e. - home & menu keys, as well as red phone button which saves you the trouble of explaining to friends how you hang it up)
7) sd card doesn't protrude like in the 600.
8) removeable battery
9) Non-Volatile File System. Never losing data is a big plus for me...happened to me twice with the 300.
10) OS 5.4, which includes a few changes that are really worth it in my opinion
11) Blazer, much faster browsing
12) the bundled software (docs to go, versamail, etc. - some are good, others just suck)
13) the side button...just one more hard button that can be tailored for individual applications
14) wifi is now capable of working on the 650, although a lil' rough, and not the 600
15) did i mention the screen & bluetooth??

Da's a lot, homie!! Palm did a pretty good job, considering they JUST friggin' acquired Handspring after they released the 600. I'd be willing to bet that the next one's not gonna be as major to me as this one since most of the kinks as a phone have been ironed out. But I doubt Palm will disappoint me...and also doubt that it won't disappoint enough for me to upgrade (could be speaking way too soon). PalmSource is the only company disappointing me...so much I wanna cry sometimes.

Dangit Slinky -- Now I gotta go find my hanky.

[gapost]

I recently upgraded my Verizon 600 to the 650. Can't believe how good it is, especially after seeing so many threads about problems people are having. My theory is that Verizon delayed their 650 to make sure they had a stable phone.

In any case, the benefits of the 650 are the screen, the bluetooth (didn't know how great it was until I started using it), the speed (noticably quicker than the 600, no delays that I have seen), the extra buttons for home and menu are awesome, the removeable battery (haven't used it yet, but nice option), the keyboard lights, and personally, I like how the new favorites work on the phone.

In summary, look how long it took for Windows to be a stable OS. (Some say it still is not, but in general, XP is stable). Palm improves Treos each time they release one. Sure, the 650 is not perfect, but is is the best smartphone/pda out there.

[BTman]

Stop... you had me at "BT is worthless"....

... *****

[mediasi]

If it's worth $400 to see the pictures better, then good for you that you have plenty of disposable income!

Umm, no. You are obviously jumping to conclusions to back yourself up for posting a "hey, I'm a pro, so..." post without having the phone in your hands for any more than 12 hours.

Not that it's ANY of your business what money I have, I don't impulse buy. I study my purchases and I studied the 650 purchase for 3 months and played with both the 600 and 650 (both at stores and by some colleagues letting me take a look at theirs). I visited these boards, I chatted with my colleagues via GAIM for weeks while I weighed ALL the options.

I will spend GOOD money on the better product any day of the week - the 650 has more features, is more current and (yes, I think about this) will even have a better resale value should I upgrade on the next version release.

You are probably confusing the Verizon version of the phone with the GSM. GSM has far more battery life but, like everything, there are tradeoffs. I'm confident the battery life should be OK although not nearly as long as the incredible 600, even on Verizon.

I'm not confusing anything. I am pleased with the battery life, and even on GSM, I'd still need a spare because I don't take advantage of the thought then while on the road I might get stuck somewhere or that we might have a 3-day power outage.

The fact that you can remove and swap batteries with the 650 is a huge selling point. I've burned out three cigarette lighters in my car in 7 years - so I can't rely on that solely for keeping a charge on my phone.

After reading threads here, I'm not the only one to notice that the unit does not respond as quickly to simple navigation. Minor quibble but it will get on your nerves if you've used the 600 long enough. Not as much of an issue as the big ones, memory and accessories.

If you only read the negative, you will be negative. I have experienced no delays. Contrary to many others, I have awesome volume on my 650 as well (I only need it halfway to hear a conversation in a crowded store).

There's been complaints about shifting keyboards, loose battery covers and other minor issues as well - gonna pick those out too? The 600 had it's own shortcomings as well. NO DEVICE will ever be perfect.

I have no idea what you mean. Given how slippery the Treo 650 is, a wrist strap is extra handy to use while holding the phone. It's not meant to swing the phone around or wear around your neck like a portable MP3 player.

Right. But use a wriststrap and that's what many do. It also makes it easier for someone to grab your phone and run should you set it down anywhere.

The slick Treo 650 without any grip is a real accident waiting to happen. Was the same with the old Motorola V60s - cool phone but waiting to slip out of your hand.

I've never had a phone that had a wristrap. I've never received anything other than a holster for a phone. My iPod came with headphones and a charger, that's it. You can argue that for the price it SHOULD come with those things, and I could argue that if you own a $600 device you should be willing to spend a few dollars to protect the thing. Want a wriststrap? Buy a skin with a loop, or bore a loop into a skin. Voila.

I'm not sure what this means. If a $400 upgrade is worth it for you to view pictures better, then I think you'd probably fall within the minority. For many, I think they probably want to weigh all the pros and cons and I felt that for many this would probably be a time saver to have a condensed version from someone who did upgrade.

"Condensed" is right. Your post simply stated that unless you must have better graphics and a replaceable battery, don't upgrade. You posted this after not even having enough time to use the phone, then make assumptions about my purposes for getting it, assuming I have a disposable income.

I could argue the same about apps - there's thousands of them and I've been graced with many users at T|C giving me good background on the apps they use and what might work for me. I found that the bulk of what I want to do on the Treo 650 don't require special apps - which means I saved quite a bit of dough by just taking the time to chart out exactly what I wanted to do an how to setup the 650 to do just that.

Update: The applications on the disc are, as expected, some type of "lite" version. That's not to say that some are not useful such as Documents To Go, which will allow you basic viewing and editing of Word, Excel and Powerpoint documents. Versamail is an acceptable mail program although I use Snappermail. The games people will like. The others are basically freeware, including Adobe's userful pdf reader.

And??? They'd probably be enough for the average user, and heck, anything "included" is a bonus for me.

Pamela

[t2gungho]

I study my purchases and I studied the 650 purchase for 3 months and played with both the 600 and 650 (both at stores and by some colleagues letting me take a look at theirs). I visited these boards, I chatted with my colleagues via GAIM for weeks while I weighed ALL the options.

I wish everyone did this prior to getting the 650...IMO it would eliminate a lot of the "I don't like my phone because _____ " complaints (AND dont get me wrong...I havent upgraded because of some of those issues.)

[mediasi]

I wish everyone did this prior to getting the 650...IMO it would eliminate a lot of the "I don't like my phone because _____ " complaints (AND dont get me wrong...I havent upgraded because of some of those issues.)

Most people really are impulse buyers. Years ago I forced myself to write down every cent I spent - even if it was 10-cents in a gumball machine, I had to log it into Quicken. After 6 months I analyzed it - and realized that all those little "It's only $2, etc." really add up. That and I got sick of logging everything (and I required myself to do so).

So I started this thing where, it doesn't matter the cost, if I see something I like at the store, I go home and sleep on it. If I think about it the next morning, I work up the plan for a purchase. If I don't think about it until two days later, then I question whether I need it.

This is how I've saved money and simplified my life - and I'm now in the process of unloaded more than half my belongings via eBay, yard sale and Goodwill.

With that, I want to make sure I'm investing my money into something I will use and appreciate - which is why I study just about any purchase - from smartphones, to computers, to clothing, even right down to those handy "gotta have" tools. I weigh my choices. If it's a failure then the only person left to blame is myself.

Pamela

[SoufSidah09]

You know it's funny to see the responses in this thread, I pretty much agree with the majority of what the OP said, but a few months ago the OP would have gotten slammed by all the P1 fanboys swearing how their T650s have NO PROBLEMS. It seems that with all the patches P1 has released recently the fanboys can no longer deny the T650 had problems...They must have retreated back to their caves...

(P1 fanboys don't read below this line)
Anyway the answer to all the reset problems people have been having is easy, dump the ancient Palm OS 5 the T650 uses; it's too old technology and it's stability can be compared with that of Windows 3.11 in where App errors will almost always cause OS crashes... As much as P1 fanboys hate to admit it, their arch enemy Microsoft *almost* eliminated OS resets with the introduction of Windows 2000, more over with their mulitasking PDA OS Windows Moble 2003, *I* have NEVER experienced an application crash the OS, incompatible or not..

With all that said, I primarily work with WM2003 units by ocupation but prefer to use PalmOS, I just wish P1 would get with the program...

[grndslm]

With all that said, I primarily work with WM2003 units by ocupation but prefer to use PalmOS, I just wish P1 would get with the program...

Not P1's program to get with....it's PalmSources! P1 did an excellent job at updating the Treo from the 600 that they didn't even create. PalmSource is the one that needs to take blame for the faults of this phone and all of Palm's other handhelds. PalmSource is why we can't see palms with VGA screens or can't multitask or can't seamlessly switch between the networking stacks and see so many resets. PalmSource thought that PIM was as big as handhelds were gonna get, and now their stocks are suffering as P1's aren't doing so bad (prolly not the greatest, compared to RIM, etc., but still pretty good).

[mrjerome]

If you try a Treo650 for a week you will not go back to a Treo600. I had the 600 for a year and 4 months and I got a 650 from Cingular which rebooted a least third times a week and i was still more satisfied than the 600. I switched to Verizon Treo 650 and is very pleased that i also bought one for my wife, and she is most happy with it. The Verizon version is much better the Cingular version. Now i know why the commercial says, "can you hear me now", because I have excellent reception all over Jacksonville and no dropped calls are a wonderful thing. I bought the second version from Verizon which has most upgrades included. The memory problem has been solved and Versamail works as promised, no repeated reboots. The Cingular Treo 650 has horrible but better than Treo 600 by far.