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  1. #21  
    So is this a dead end?
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by rizwankassim
    So is this a dead end?
    It's unclear at this point. However, from Sprints behavior, it appears that they don't want to give developers access to the lat/long info unless they can collect a service fee for every position lookup. They see it as a revenue source, not a value add for consumers.
  3. #23  
    Boy does that ever suck. If they really charge a fee per lookup, it blows the absolute best use of it, which would be to hook it into TomTom directly, so the Bluetooth GPS is just an upgrade to allow better accuracy/GPS out of cell range. Could you imagine how many people they could switch to Sprint/Treo 650 if a $130 software-only upgrade (w/card) got you full GPS functionality?

    Then they should do a deal with TomTom to get a cut of service fees for LBS info, like traffic.

    I honestly don't understand taking the hottest technology and biggest advantage and ensuring that nobody will actually use it.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by DougKoz
    Boy does that ever suck. If they really charge a fee per lookup, it blows the absolute best use of it
    I agree 100%. I do hope they come to their senses eventually.
  5.    #25  
    There are a few things to understand with the technology.

    While the Treo can know it's position, from my understanding it requires help from Sprint's servers. If they make this available, they have to be sure that their servers scale. They also have to have the permissioning set up, so that I can't view someone's location data, etc.

    Now Nextel has GPS working in some of their phones, but the phones themselves have the GPS chip requiring no help from Nextel's servers (as I understand it). They've published the APIs and it's working in the real world. So it's a slightly different fruit.

    As you know, Nextel and Sprint have proposed a merger, so we can hope that they take Nextel's open GPS philosophy with it, but I'm starting to think that you'll have to wait until you get a Treo 700 with a dedicated chip that doesn't require a Sprint server to really make use GPS this way.

    (This is just how I understand things from what I've read, I could be wrong on a number or all of the points I made above ).
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterEd
    Speaking of Nextel LBS ..... my friend has a Nextel phone with a GPS program in it. He got it for the "free" GPS service. I had needed the lat/long of my house for a sat dish aiming so he stopped by with his phone and gave me the information. After I plotted it on a map we found it was ~11 MILES off! We double and triple checked it and redid the readings from another location. He called Nextel to ask them why and they told him that in order to get "accurate" (their words) GPS results he'd have to pay a monthly extra fee!
    It shouldn't be 11 miles off regardless of what GPS solution you're using. If you just take a lat/long from a GPS coordinate and try to plot it in Google Maps or some other mapping software it'll be wrong. Most GPS systems send the lat/long in degrees minutes and you need decimal degrees for mapping make it work you need to do (for example) 84.23432 should actually be 84 + (23432 / 60). Since 23432 represents minutes you need to divide by 60 minutes to get the degrees. You also need to make sure it's in the right hemisphere as well, but that's pretty obvious to see when it's off.

    I've played around with the Microsoft Location Server and the accuracy of the A-GPS in my area is pretty good, more than sufficient for driving directions and location services....but it's nowhere near Nextel's GPS or a good GPS reciever.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    Actually, the A-GPS in Sprint phones uses both GPS and the towers to determine the location of the phone. See:

    "A-GPS is a hybrid location technology that uses GPS satellites and the carrier’s network to determine the position of a handset."

    Also of interest:

    "A-GPS from Qualcomm ( and SnapTrack (, branded gpsOne, can achieve 10m accuracy in a typical outdoor-highway environment, according to Arnold Gum, Qualcomm senior product manager."

    But that does not mean that the T650 has GPS hardware (receiver). Otherwise there would be no need to purchase an external GPS receiver for other applicaitons.

    As far as I know, no T650 has a GPS receiver internally.

  8. #28  
    I don't think the 650 has a true A-GPS solution but it does have the ability to know it's location using the tower signal strength. From my understanding the A-GPS is basically where the tower tells the phone what satellites to use and a basic idea of where the phone is located on the planet so the phone doesn't need to waste time doing a full satellite search....saves power and time.
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