[guinnessdraught]

I don't get what is taking Snapper so long to release a new version. TreoNeo, where do you get your information that 3.0 is coming? and if your source is good, exactly when is it coming? I just can't imagine how Snapper could come out with the plan to be best in class and then stand idly by while one person out does them. I also don't get what happened to Will Lau. He used to peruse these boards and chime in now and again. This board in particular is a good place to stay active if you want to succeed in the mobil email business but they seem to have forsaken it. It appears to me that the developers of Snapper (if their really are more than one at this point), have just kind of lost interest. That seems to happen alot with Palm developers, but I am surprised it happened with Snapper and annoyed that I put my money into it.

[Chatter]

jimf - No, this has nothing to do with advertising; and I've NEVER said that Snapper is unstable or that it isn't an excellent product. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else.

The fact is that Chatter takes advantage of many features of IMAP that just aren't available in Snapper or VersaMail - the ability to maintain a session in IDLE status and therefore manipulate messages and foldres in real-time, the ability to use powerful searching commands on the server, etc. It also works fast and asynchronously, which people used to PC's take for granted, but which is extremely rare on PDA's.

You can argue that these are simply "nice", but I believe you're being disingenuous.

Marc

[jimf]

Not disingenuous at all, Marc. Real-time manipulation of networked resources is rare in general on PDAs because their connectivity is variable, and often not reliable. I personally find my connectivity coming and going during my travels, so I found little benefit to turning on real-time folder manipulation. A personal opinion that I feel applies to many others besides myself, and my reason for considering these features marginal -- not disingenuous at all.

I also don't feel it's innaccurate to say that the presentation of consistently advantageous positioning of your own product against others could reasonably be categorized as advertising. Claiming otherwise seems a bit . . . disingenuous. Of course you're advertising -- you're proud of your product and you're talking it up here relative to Versamail and Snappermail. No problem with that, as long as it's in the open.

[Danitaz]

Real-time manipulation of networked resources is rare in general on PDAs

I don't, however, think this really even is why I think Chatter is so cool. I don't use "real-time" manipulation of anything in Chatter, because I don't use the IDLE command. However, I can't tell you how much easier it is for me to deal with my "filing" issues in Chatter than in VersaMail, Snapper, etc. Here's why:

I have a total of about 100 different folders in various hierarchies. In VersaMail and Snapper I had taken to defining 3 or four of the folders that I use the most, and then had a folder called "Filed" that was a catch-all. For some types of these messages, I could put a rule back on my master account that said "if this message fits this pattern, when it is put into the "Filed" folder, actually move it to "XYZ" folder. And then about once a week I would have to dredge through this "Filed" folder to deal with messages that needed to be moved to other folders. With Chatter, even though I'm working "offline", I can move any message to any folder that is defined on the master without actually having to "define" that folder under my mailbox in Chatter. I receive over 100 "real" emails a day, and the time saved by having my entire folder easily accessible structure in Chatter is enormous.

I'm a registered user of Snapper. I have been a registered user of VersaMail since back in its MultiMail days. I can appreciate that not everyone needs such a powerful email client as Chatter, but if you do need it, there is no competition for this folder business, real-time OR offline.

Danita

[jimf]

Yep, that sounds really handy. I haven't tried doing this in Snapper myself, but what is keeping you from doing this there? They have offline message/folder manipulation for IMAP accounts - is there some limitation in their support for this? Just curious.

[taroliw]

The stable versions of Chatter have been very stable, unless you're trying to use background SSL, which really isn't supported.

Stop the press... you mean that if I use SSL for IMAP I might as well not bother? How about STARTTLS? I mostly rely upon this to secure the authentication, which I would never, ever, ever do over 143. But if I were going to consider using Chatter, SSL support is a must.

[Danitaz]

I haven't tried doing this in Snapper myself, but what is keeping you from doing this there? They have offline message/folder manipulation for IMAP accounts - is there some limitation in their support for this? Just curious.

Unless I've missed something very fundamental in Snapper over the years (which I don't think I have), you must DEFINE every folder you wish to move messages into. That's not practical for someone with 100 possible folders. I might only need to move a message into a folder once a month. However, having it available in Chatter cuts the time I spend "cleaning up" back at the office tremendously.

Danita

[curtiscarmack]

Stop the press... you mean that if I use SSL for IMAP I might as well not bother? How about STARTTLS? I mostly rely upon this to secure the authentication, which I would never, ever, ever do over 143. But if I were going to consider using Chatter, SSL support is a must.

Not to put words in Marc's mouth, but "not really supported" seems to mean use at your own risk. In my experience, it leads to more resets. Marc is working on a version using a newly licensed library that will allow him to support background SSL. I'm hoping we'll see that version in a week or to, as I'm anxious to try again, but not so anxious that I want any more resets.

[taroliw]

Not to put words in Marc's mouth, but "not really supported" seems to mean use at your own risk. In my experience, it leads to more resets. Marc is working on a version using a newly licensed library that will allow him to support background SSL. I'm hoping we'll see that version in a week or to, as I'm anxious to try again, but not so anxious that I want any more resets.

Well, exactly. Why use a feature known to misbehave, and make my whole treo less reliable? I'm glad to hear a fix is in the works. What's the best way to learn when it's available? Is there a listserv for CM?

[curtiscarmack]

Well, exactly. Why use a feature known to misbehave, and make my whole treo less reliable? I'm glad to hear a fix is in the works. What's the best way to learn when it's available? Is there a listserv for CM?

Ask Marc to put you on the beta e-mail list. You'll get notified of the changes in each new beta. In the most recent e-mail, he mentioned this issue as hopefully to be addressed next week.

[newtreouser]

Weeks without a random reset. I envy you Marc. Which Treo(s) and provider(s) do you have? How many "Hobbyist s/w" is on your Treos?

Hi, Curt.

In all honestly, I'm not aware of ANY stability issues in the latest betas that aren't related to:

1) Background SSL, which isn't supported, or
2) "Enable Local Network Time" (which is a Palm OS bug)

If you do have issues on a clean installation that aren't one of these, then we should work on determining exactly what it is. I have gone WEEKS without a random reset (even with all the new debug versions I run), so I think whatever stability issues you're still seeing should be looked at. And you haven't sent me any reports or logs in months, right? (Just curious in case I dropped the ball)

Marc

[Chatter]

newtreouser - Honestly, I don't have anything but Chatter and FileZ on my Treo. I use the Treo for voice calls and email...

Marc

[jimf]

Ah, yes, that would be a pain. I think you're right, Snapper makes you pick each folder off of the server individually - you define a new folder, and it gives you a browse window showing you all the folders available on the server, and you pick the one you want. Doing that many times over could get tedious.

I keep all my categorized email in local folders, so all I need to sync is my inbox, sent, deleted, etc folders (just a handful). So all I need to be able to do is shift things between IMAP folders offline and then sync up when I get back online, which works great in Snapper.

[DuncIT]

Weeks without a random reset. I envy you Marc. Which Treo(s) and provider(s) do you have? How many "Hobbyist s/w" is on your Treos?

I can vouch for Chatter too. My Treo is loaded w/ apps, and I haven't had a reset in weeks. I had been using the "Park in Chatter" option to avoid background SSL problems. But now I'm working w/ an upcoming beta Chatter that removes the need for that. I was a long time Snappermail user before coming to Chatter (w/ my 600), but in my opinion there is just now comparison between the two apps. Or between Chatter and any Palm email app, for that matter. Mark continues to do a great job, and provides some of the best tech support you'll ever come across.

Dunc

[newtreouser]

You have only 2 non OEM apps on your 650? I wonder if all my resets will go away if I pair my apps down to chatter and filez? Which is out of the question BTW.

newtreouser - Honestly, I don't have anything but Chatter and FileZ on my Treo. I use the Treo for voice calls and email...

Marc

[Chatter]

ntu - I'm not really a power user by any means...

Marc

[The Bishop]

You have only 2 non OEM apps on your 650? I wonder if all my resets will go away if I pair my apps down to chatter and filez? Which is out of the question BTW.

I have a TON of apps on my Treo650 and Chatter works great - no reboots, nada. I did have to do a hard reset to clear out a couple other apps that had caused woes with Chatter and other programs, but once those were gone for good, it was great.

I'd really suspect it's other programs / files on your end. Once I did a hard reset and MANUALLY reloaded everything, ALL my programs worked like a champ that I use. The backups I was creating even had the woes (which I never found) but have since gone away...

[taroliw]

I had been using the "Park in Chatter" option to avoid background SSL problems. But now I'm working w/ an upcoming beta Chatter that removes the need for that.

Is this b25 or something newer??? I'm on b25 now and use SSL in the background... and would enjoy a release that helps resolves stability problems in that case.

[islandsnow]

the only reason why i don't like chatter is that you cannot schedule send/receive like how snapper can. for instance, i do not want it checking my imap email at work during work hours T-F. why would i? i'm at work. i don't need my treo checking my mail while at work.

i want to only check my imap work mail on mondays from 7am to 6pm.... and the rest of the time, i would do a manual send/receive if i want to check mail. snapper can do it. chatter cannot. either you turn syncing totally off, or have it checking during certain hours EVERY DAY.

i've emailed chatter about it but the response was that its very low on the priority list. thats too bad since thats the only reason why i would not buy chatter.

[Danitaz]

the only reason why i don't like chatter is that you cannot schedule send/receive like how snapper can.

I've actually asked for that too - maybe if enough people let Marc know it's an important feature it will move up in priority.

However, unless you are not on an unlimited data plan, or are overly concerned with battery usage, having Chatter check all day long, 24 hours a day really isn't a big deal with IMAP, since when you get around to looking at it again, it will have all of the changes you made in the master anyway. But I do understand the "desire" to only have it checking when you want it to, and I'd prefer that myself as well.

Danita