[Gaurav]

After so many circular explanations for the all the random resets on the 650, I finally read a clear and concise answer on Bit's and Bolts (makers of Backupman) support pages:

#

Some users may experience "Out of memory" errors while running BackupMan. The specific error number for this error is 0x0201. This error is caused by memory leak in the NVFS subsystem of the Tungsten T5 and Treo 650. Whether or not you see this error depends on the quantity and composition of the data on your device; there is nothing that can be done to rectify the problem until PalmOne releases an update for these devices.

This problem also can show up as a random reset (Treo 650) or Fatal Exception (Tungsten T5). Since this is a bug in the device itself, you may see these errors/resets during any running application, so if you have been wondering why your device resets occasionally, this is probably the cause.

We are hopeful that PalmOne will fix this problem in the near future, and we will continue to update this website with further information as it becomes available.

http://www.bitsnbolts.com/tungsten_t5.html

Sorry if this has already been discussed at nauseum, but I thought it would be helpful answer to all those "why does my Treo 650 reset?" posts that keep appearing around here. Hopefully, rumors of the Sprint Treo 650 Rom update next week are true and the memory leak issue will be finally resolved. If not, then PalmOne is in for a world of hurt!!

[SoufSidah09]

^ You're wrong go back to where you came from, that link is bs so is the info they posted, 3rd party software is the problem, the Treo 650 is perfect and HAS NO PROBLEMS!

Who's with me?!? http://www.r6messagenet.com/forums/i...ilies/spit.gif

[Gaurav]

^ You're wrong go back to where you came from, that link is bs so is the info they posted, 3rd party software is the problem, the Treo 650 is perfect and HAS NO PROBLEMS!

Who's with me?!? http://www.r6messagenet.com/forums/i...ilies/spit.gif

Wow... that didn't take long for thread hyjack did it?

[dutchtrumpet]

I've read that...Sure hope that bug is addressed in the rumored update next week!

[MFizzel]

Forgive me for asking, since this is my 1st Treo and all...but with the 600, how long did p1 take to release an update for the GSM flavor?

[mgauss]

Well I am panicked to add anything to my 650 in the fear that it will crash the whole thing. I've also moved away from Palm based PIMs and now I'm using iCal and AddressBook on my Apple. I Sync and I iSync (free Apple sync to iCal and AddressBook). It is nice to see appointments in a 17" monitor. I am traveling little these days, so really my 650 is a habit of "I've got to have it all with me at all times."

But still, I would love it if the 650 would be less finicky.

[tbhausen]

You don't have to add a thing. My "virgin" 650 froze up within the first half-hour. It hadn't even been connected to a PC yet. I have a "good" SIM.

Todd/Indy

[Robbie]

I think if Sprint was to release "this" patch next week, it would be for the problems/updates for the Treo on Sprints network. I would like to think that the memory problem is present in all of the flavors of the Treo so therefore Palm Source would have to release a patch for the OS. So wouldn't a patch from PS be a bigger thing to look forward to then the one from Sprint?

[dstroot]

gfunkmagic - rockin' avatar, go Hurricanes.

[dutchtrumpet]

I think if Sprint was to release "this" patch next week, it would be for the problems/updates for the Treo on Sprints network. I would like to think that the memory problem is present in all of the flavors of the Treo so therefore Palm Source would have to release a patch for the OS. So wouldn't a patch from PS be a bigger thing to look forward to then the one from Sprint?

I think you're confused with how updates come out. PS won't provide an independent update. All updates will be on palmone's support site and linked within your sprint account page.

[BlkLegGT]

How 'bout a freakin' recall. It's broke P1, don't make the users fix your device. How could this be overlooked in R&D?

[Kanuck]

What is a "memory leak"?

[dutchtrumpet]

What is a "memory leak"?

I forget

[shadowboxer]

Lol

[Jeff DLB]

> What is a "memory leak"?

A program, and the operating system itself, must often reserve memory to perform its functions. If it fails to release memory when no longer needed, it will grow to take up enough memory to cause the system to be unstable because other programs won't have enough memory.

[robotron]

I have speculated in other threads that is was something like this...it happened over time.

BUT I don't think this is conclusive - because I and others have done hard resets and without touching the phone - no sync, no installs, resets will occur. I think it may be some degradation in the HW - if it was just SW, then a hard reset should have cured it. Hell, if it was a memory leak, a osft reset should cure it - but the freuqnecy of resets was deinitely increasing on mine - started a few times a day, by the time I got my replacement from Sprint it is every 10-15 minutes.

So I can a see a memory leak issue making sense but also think there is something more fundamentally wrong. Could there be some underlying issue in the actual non-volatile flash memory - like overtime, the NVFS itself is unable to get at all the memory - like a memory leak that is not only "soft"??

I understand emory leaks but have no clue if the nature of the interaction between the NV RAM and the NVFS could possibly lead to loss of available flash memory that persists after a hard or soft reset...

feel free to flame me - just guessing at this point...

[mikec]

It's pretty simple why the Treos crash:

1.) Bugs/memory leaks in NVFS

2.) Bugs/memory leaks in Palm OS 5.4.x

3.) Hardware defects and interrupt handling...press a button too fast and boom - reset

4.) The OS is 8 years old and too many shims and hacks to add functionality just spell trouble.

[GWB]

I've said recently that the fact that the majority, say 70-80% of TREO 650's seem to work OK makes it sound like some sort of hardware or production line problem. This memory leak sounds like a good explanation for crashes. The part about resets happening AFTER hard reset could at first contradict the theory, but didn't somebody figure out that even a hard reset might not clear the !@":$)(,?#&*+ NVFS memory totally?

Once again, our good friends at PalmOne have screwed us over to give us this NVFS memory that we didn't even want..

[MarkEagle]

didn't somebody figure out that even a hard reset might not clear the !@":$)(,?#&*+ NVFS memory totally?

A hard reset does work on NVFS. It doesn't actually delete the data, just flags it as deleted, much the way files are deleted on a hard disk in a PC. To totally wipe out the data, the convoluted Zero Out reset needs to be performed.

[Gaurav]

You don't have to add a thing. My "virgin" 650 froze up within the first half-hour. It hadn't even been connected to a PC yet. I have a "good" SIM.

Todd/Indy

As quoted above:

Since this is a bug in the device itself, you may see these errors/resets during any running application...

Which means you don't have to have any 3rd party app to cause the memory leak. The phone app or versamail etc could also cause this problem...