[Moroner]

B32 Update:

I am happy to report that the reset during ntp time update issue is now fixed.

And for completeness, no change for my other issues.

[jeffgibson]

New build available. B0.9.33



This build is an improvement to profiles that include BT or HotSync in the profile definition. I split out the execution of these commands to a separate program. This allows SC to not loose control of the command execution sequence.

You will however need to install a 3rd program called SC-Execute.prc. After it is installed, it will hide itself so you will never see it in your launcher.

Jeff

[tomvb2000]

Jeff - Couple of questions.

1. Is this statement true?
Manual profiles will remain active until the next profile (timed, calendar, or manual) starts. You can extend the duration of the current manual profile using either the Midnight or +30m buttons on the Profile Manager screen.

2. What would happen if two profiles start at the same time, both allow nesting and change the same preference to different values? Is there an implicit precedence order to handle corner cases like this?

Thanks.

[jeffgibson]

Jeff - Couple of questions.

1. Is this statement true?
Manual profiles will remain active until the next profile (timed, calendar, or manual) starts. You can extend the duration of the current manual profile using either the Midnight or +30m buttons on the Profile Manager screen.

Partially true. Manual profiles are a special variant of timed profiles. They are obviously manually executed rather than automaticaly executed. When they are executed they can either have an unlimited duration or they can be assigned a duration to remain active. At the time they start, they will override all commnads that are in common between the manual profile and all currently active profiles and calendar commands. The state of the nesting flag on the currently running profile(s) is/are ignored when a manual profile is executed. Then after the manual profile is running it's rule set remains in effect for the duration of the manual profile to control future profiles and/or calendar commands that want to execute. Then you can adjust the duration of the manual profile while it is running. That functionality was added to the manual profile management window. When you HotKey to the profile screen, it will show you the remaining duration for the active Manual Profile (if one is active).

2. What would happen if two profiles start at the same time, both allow nesting and change the same preference to different values? Is there an implicit precedence order to handle corner cases like this?

Thanks.

Right now the rules specify the one that was created first in your profile list. Ie it goes by the creation date for the profile. This is something I have ignored since I originally implemented the product. What do you think is a logical way of making this decision? Alphabetical, leave it as is, etc.....

Jeff

[tomvb2000]

[/i]
Right now the rules specify the one that was created first in your profile list. Ie it goes by the creation date for the profile. This is something I have ignored since I originally implemented the product. What do you think is a logical way of making this decision? Alphabetical, leave it as is, etc.....

Since the user won't know/remember when each profile was created and "undefined" behavior is never good for an app, I'd go with alphabetical. I've thought about making calendar profiles take precedence, but you can always have two appts at the same time. Going by which profile has the shortest remaining duration might make some sense, but isn't deterministic and prevent yet another tie. It's definitely a corner case, so probably not that critical 99.99% of the time. At least alphabetical is explainable.

Couple of other items:
1. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought the profile switcher screen "active until" would show the remaining duration. With B31, manually selecting the Night profile (which normally ends at 11:30p) shows the duration as unlimited. Pressing +30m briefly flashes "the current time +30m" (7:19p) but "Unlimited" is overlaid on top again.
2. Just to confirm, SC interprets start time of 12:00p and end time of 12:00p as 24 hours, not 0, right?

[jeffgibson]

Since the user won't know/remember when each profile was created and "undefined" behavior is never good for an app, I'd go with alphabetical. I've thought about making calendar profiles take precedence, but you can always have two appts at the same time. Going by which profile has the shortest remaining duration might make some sense, but isn't deterministic and prevent yet another tie. It's definitely a corner case, so probably not that critical 99.99% of the time. At least alphabetical is explainable.

Agreed. Will do this in a release prior to the final prduction release.

Couple of other items:
1. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought the profile switcher screen "active until" would show the remaining duration. With B31, manually selecting the Night profile (which normally ends at 11:30p) shows the duration as unlimited. Pressing +30m briefly flashes "the current time +30m" (7:19p) but "Unlimited" is overlaid on top again.

This duration field is *only* valid for profiles that were started as a manual profile. It sounds like the case you are talking about, the Night profile was started automatically as a timed profile. If you also have it configured to be available as a manual profile, it will not reflect the duration of the timed event only its duration when it is run as a manual profile. But by being configured to be both a timed profile and a manual profile, it allows for this profile to show up in the manual profile manager screen and be triggered manually when it is needed. SC only allows for 1 active manual profile but many active timed profiles. To get the duration time for *all* command settings, use the information window from the HotKey program.

2. Just to confirm, SC interprets start time of 12:00p and end time of 12:00p as 24 hours, not 0, right?

Yes that is correct. Like wise a time range of 11:00a to 10:00a is a 23 hour event.

Jeff

[jimmydu3]

Hi Jeff, I saw the talk about manual profiles and the more I use schedulecare, the more I think it would be great to allow each profile that is manual to have a default active time.
I've noticed this with the fact that during the work day (8-5) I have my phone off. Sometimes though I need to check my email quickly or look something up. I have a profile set for "All on" which equals brightness high, no auto-off, phone on. I only need this for a limited time, but I keep forgetting to switch the profile off and I end up getting phone calls later in the day at work. I know this is lazy/forgetfull of me to not click the lasting time when turning the profile on, but I think it would be more conventient to just be able to hotkey to ScheduleCare and click the profile and know I don't have to mess with it anymore.
I also use this with a 1 hour block during an exercise workout. Or an unplanned, spontaneous 45 minute meeting.
Thanks again - it's a great program. James

[jeffgibson]

Hi Jeff, I saw the talk about manual profiles and the more I use schedulecare, the more I think it would be great to allow each profile that is manual to have a default active time.
I've noticed this with the fact that during the work day (8-5) I have my phone off. Sometimes though I need to check my email quickly or look something up. I have a profile set for "All on" which equals brightness high, no auto-off, phone on. I only need this for a limited time, but I keep forgetting to switch the profile off and I end up getting phone calls later in the day at work. I know this is lazy/forgetfull of me to not click the lasting time when turning the profile on, but I think it would be more conventient to just be able to hotkey to ScheduleCare and click the profile and know I don't have to mess with it anymore.
I also use this with a 1 hour block during an exercise workout. Or an unplanned, spontaneous 45 minute meeting.
Thanks again - it's a great program. James

What I would really like to do is the following:

Not allow a single profile to be both timed and manual. If I do this, then I can easily allow for default time durations for manual profiles. Personally, I think this makes a lot of sence! The only real reason for profiles to have both the timed and manual characteristic is the time it takes to build duplicate profiles. Now that I have added the copy button, is this still a valid concern? Are there other reasons people need a profile to carry multiple definitions (timed and manual)? I want some feedback on this type of design change befoire I proceed.

Lets hear your votes and opinions.

Jeff

[jeffgibson]

New build that addresses using the SoftReset option. This now works correctly in B34.

Jeff

[jeffgibson]

Build B35 fixed the calendar commands:

!SCax!
!SCvx!

These commands lost their ability to restore their default state many releases ago. It was just caught by one of the beta testers!

Jeff

[tomvb2000]

This duration field is *only* valid for profiles that were started as a manual profile. It sounds like the case you are talking about, the Night profile was started automatically as a timed profile. If you also have it configured to be available as a manual profile, it will not reflect the duration of the timed event only its duration when it is run as a manual profile. But by being configured to be both a timed profile and a manual profile, it allows for this profile to show up in the manual profile manager screen and be triggered manually when it is needed. SC only allows for 1 active manual profile but many active timed profiles. To get the duration time for *all* command settings, use the information window from the HotKey program.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Part of it was my error - I was actually trying to start the Night profile 10 minutes early and then set it to run for 30 minutes all at the same time. Couple of other things I noticed on the profile switcher:

1. I guess b/c the Midnight button is dynamic, the focus ring doesn't show. Sort of throws you off first time you nav thru it.

2. It seems that if you use the 5way nav, you can't add 30 minutes if the Active Until part of the screen is within 30 minutes of midnight. Each time you press it, the "Midnight" flashes on the Midnight/-15m button. However, if you press the +30m without using the 5way, you can add +30 or -15 as much as you want well past midnight. It's no fun writing GUIs without the proper widget support, but thought I should let you know.

3. It's not real clear how to "Ok" the manual time adjustment. Can we fit an OK button along the bottom row since we still need Stop and Cancel? I had the duration set to 3:12am (it's 11:30p now) but after leaving the profile switcher, SCHotKey still showed it ending at 11:30p (which it did just now). I went back into profile switcher to confirm 3:12a, then back to SCHotKey and now it shows it's ending at 3:12a.

4. I guess the switcher intentionally doesn't support the home/phone/calendar/mail hard buttons? At least they didn't work for me. I suppose this is related to the switche coming up via a special hot key.

You know how much I like this app and have enjoyed working with you on this project. Just thought you'd want to know about some of this stuff.

Thanks again, Tom

[Katahdin]

Do you know when the phone off command will be fixed when you mute all sounds?

[tomvb2000]

What I would really like to do is the following:

Not allow a single profile to be both timed and manual. If I do this, then I can easily allow for default time durations for manual profiles. Personally, I think this makes a lot of sence! The only real reason for profiles to have both the timed and manual characteristic is the time it takes to build duplicate profiles. Now that I have added the copy button, is this still a valid concern? Are there other reasons people need a profile to carry multiple definitions (timed and manual)? I want some feedback on this type of design change befoire I proceed.

Lets hear your votes and opinions.

Jeff

I agree that having the copy button removes majority of the concern. In my usage at least, I rarely use the profiles (as manual ones) that have both timed and manual characteristics. Instead, I have manual ones for "Airplane", "Meeting", "Silent", etc. which would lend themselves to a default duration.

I'll vote for the change.

[Xathros]

I was the one who asked for profiles to be able to do both timed and manual. This way certain profiles don't need to be duplicated for use both ways. My work profile for instance is timed M-F 9-5 but can also be run manually when I work on a weekend or before/after normal hours. This makes sense to me.

Now, the idea of having a default (or preset) duration for manual profiles sounds like a good idea to me. I don't see why it has to eliminate the ability of a profile to be both timed and manual tho. A new field added to the profile record that holds this profiles default duration when used as a manual profile should be doable I would think. If blank, the manual profile responds as it does today, if not, then the duration defaults to the preset in the profile. If you want it changed, select a duration as we do today and then select the profile - the chosen duration should override the preset duration.

This sounds like a great feature and while it would require a change to the profile database (and thus, recreation of our profiles again) I think it would be worth it.

Please don't remove the ability for profiles to be both timed and manual tho. Pleeeeezzzzz.......



-X

[greenawayj]

Jeff-- Two functionality items occurred to me recently. Neither would be critical for a Release1 but I thought I'd send them to you:

1. Battery-level driven profile: Not even sure if this one is possible, but I recently had a problem where I lost my charger while on a 4 day trip. I found myself thinking that it'd be nice if I could have a few 'battery-saving' profile changes driven by battery level(s): Dimmest screen brightness, auto-off at 10 seconds, maybe even turn-off radio at 5% to squeeze the most life out of the treo (600) without risk of losing data (I understand this isn't really a concern of the 650 crowd). Obviously low battery profiles can be created today, and implemented manually. So, the batt-level-driven functionality isn't absolutely mandatory, but there are day's I don't realize how low I'm getting and having these kick in automatically would be nice to have.

2. How about a text generator (could even be in the form of an entirely seperate app) for calendar profiles? I've created a few simple calendar profiles on my own, but I think a great tool would be to have a GUI screen which could generate a text box (Copy-able into clipboard and Paste-able into Calendar items) for more complex calendar changes? Just a thought. Not sure how many people are using the calendar item options....

John

[Xathros]

Hehe. I had sugested #2 early on. Something like the existing profile config screen to generate !sc! code to past into a calendar *or* category command. I think a util like this might make sense especially fo the Phase 1 product.

-X

[jeffgibson]

I was the one who asked for profiles to be able to do both timed and manual. This way certain profiles don't need to be duplicated for use both ways. My work profile for instance is timed M-F 9-5 but can also be run manually when I work on a weekend or before/after normal hours. This makes sense to me.

I understand the need for manual profiles that have the same function as timed profiles.

Now, the idea of having a default (or preset) duration for manual profiles sounds like a good idea to me. I don't see why it has to eliminate the ability of a profile to be both timed and manual tho. A new field added to the profile record that holds this profiles default duration when used as a manual profile should be doable I would think. If blank, the manual profile responds as it does today, if not, then the duration defaults to the preset in the profile. If you want it changed, select a duration as we do today and then select the profile - the chosen duration should override the preset duration.

The implementation of this field is something I need to give a lot of thought to. There are some lingering problems that no one has discovered yet in the current implementation that allows dual purpose profiles. I think that the new COPY option gives people the easy ability to clone a profile. So now with this ability I do feel that the need for dual purpose profiles is diminished.

I have also been getting some support questions and problems that are directly related to the dual assignments.

This sounds like a great feature and while it would require a change to the profile database (and thus, recreation of our profiles again) I think it would be worth it.

Please don't remove the ability for profiles to be both timed and manual tho. Pleeeeezzzzz.......



-X

Again, I have not made a final decision but I am very much leaning in the direction of making this change. I will give it some more thought.

Jeff

[jeffgibson]

Jeff-- Two functionality items occurred to me recently. Neither would be critical for a Release1 but I thought I'd send them to you:

1. Battery-level driven profile: Not even sure if this one is possible, but I recently had a problem where I lost my charger while on a 4 day trip. I found myself thinking that it'd be nice if I could have a few 'battery-saving' profile changes driven by battery level(s): Dimmest screen brightness, auto-off at 10 seconds, maybe even turn-off radio at 5% to squeeze the most life out of the treo (600) without risk of losing data (I understand this isn't really a concern of the 650 crowd). Obviously low battery profiles can be created today, and implemented manually. So, the batt-level-driven functionality isn't absolutely mandatory, but there are day's I don't realize how low I'm getting and having these kick in automatically would be nice to have.

2. How about a text generator (could even be in the form of an entirely seperate app) for calendar profiles? I've created a few simple calendar profiles on my own, but I think a great tool would be to have a GUI screen which could generate a text box (Copy-able into clipboard and Paste-able into Calendar items) for more complex calendar changes? Just a thought. Not sure how many people are using the calendar item options....

John

This is a good idea and I like it much better than the other suggestion of allowing manual profiles to be executed from calendar entries. The architecture of SC just does not lend itself to allowing calendar entries to execute manual profiles.

Jeff

[jeffgibson]

Do you know when the phone off command will be fixed when you mute all sounds?

I made a change in B35 hoping it would have an effect on this issue. The tests that I did on my Sprint 600 and Spring 650 showed this was no longer an issue. Are you running one of these platforms? I don't remember your equipment/provider.

Jeff

[jeffgibson]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Part of it was my error - I was actually trying to start the Night profile 10 minutes early and then set it to run for 30 minutes all at the same time. Couple of other things I noticed on the profile switcher:

1. I guess b/c the Midnight button is dynamic, the focus ring doesn't show. Sort of throws you off first time you nav thru it.

I will look into this. Should not be happening.

2. It seems that if you use the 5way nav, you can't add 30 minutes if the Active Until part of the screen is within 30 minutes of midnight. Each time you press it, the "Midnight" flashes on the Midnight/-15m button. However, if you press the +30m without using the 5way, you can add +30 or -15 as much as you want well past midnight. It's no fun writing GUIs without the proper widget support, but thought I should let you know.

Again this should not be happening.

3. It's not real clear how to "Ok" the manual time adjustment. Can we fit an OK button along the bottom row since we still need Stop and Cancel? I had the duration set to 3:12am (it's 11:30p now) but after leaving the profile switcher, SCHotKey still showed it ending at 11:30p (which it did just now). I went back into profile switcher to confirm 3:12a, then back to SCHotKey and now it shows it's ending at 3:12a.

I know this interface is a little misleading now. The process is currently, highlite the profile name. If the profile name is an active manual profile, its actual duration will be shown. You can change this value at will. The change will not be applied until you tap on the profile name. It is the same process that you follow when you initially start a profile.

4. I guess the switcher intentionally doesn't support the home/phone/calendar/mail hard buttons? At least they didn't work for me. I suppose this is related to the switche coming up via a special hot key.

They are mapped out. The only way to leave this window is to execute a profile or to hit cancel.

You know how much I like this app and have enjoyed working with you on this project. Just thought you'd want to know about some of this stuff.

Thanks again, Tom

No problem.

Keep the comments coming!!! I take nothing personally!!!!

Jeff