[greenawayj]

With 9.23 (treo 600), the "stop" button on the manual profiles page doesn't seem to do anything. The manual profile I set is still showing in the top bar of the "Manual Profiles" screen as well as the master profiles status screen for those profile attributes affected by the manual profile. I was surprised others hadn't mentioned this, but then again, it could be just another weird thing happening only with mine!!!

[jeffgibson]

I had th same problem. after the softreset I went into Schedulcare FIRST and the when I opened hotkey it worked fine.

Yes this is a master slave relationship between these 2 programs. ScheduleCare being the master. If you have just done a new installation or there was a change to the DB layout, SC-HotKey will not have the files it needs to operate. Thus it will give you about 25 of these messages. Its not an endless loop but it looks like it.

So just to be safe, always install both programs and then run SC before you run SC-HotKey. Then to be doublely safe, re-run SC again to make sure it set up the link between the 2 programs correctly. I will improve this in the production version.

Jeff

[jeffgibson]

New build is available. This fixes additional problems with commands and nesting rules. I think I am finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel with these problems. I appreciate everyone's patience with these issues.

Jeff

[paulsjmail]

Jeff, the new schedule care options for controlling the Treo's brightness, seem to be working really well. With the latest versions of schedule care (which seem much more stable now) I can now automatically lower the brightness levels as much as the treo allows. I haven't been playing with the latest version very long, but it's pretty amazing that some thing so feature packed can also be made so stable.

[jeffgibson]

Jeff, the new schedule care options for controlling the Treo's brightness, seem to be working really well. With the latest versions of schedule care (which seem much more stable now) I can now automatically lower the brightness levels as much as the treo allows. I haven't been playing with the latest version very long, but it's pretty amazing that some thing so feature packed can also be made so stable.

Thanks Paul! It has taken a while but from here some pretty fun things are going to be added.

I am going to be adding:

NTP automated time update via Profiles and/or Calendar commands
BlueTooth device detection
Possibly phone forwarding
Online documentation


Then we will see where it goes from there. I can see the official release date coming in the next 2 weeks or so.

Jeff

[Moroner]

Jeff,

I have checked out 0.9.25, and the problem with not reenabling alarms after a phone call is now fixed.
I think the LED confirmation takes a bit too long, one cycle would be sufficient.
Nice that the font for the duration is now larger, could you also make the text field in the dialog box where you enter a profile name a bit wider, so that all possible 15 characters fit?
The auto kb light mode problem after p+p-p+p-L- is still present. Same with the system sound off problem.
There are some funny interactions with OnCradleOn and a profie with auto dim mode on. One is that when OnCradleOn kicks in to prevent the Treo from turning off, the lights go back to undimmed. The other is that after that, the SC hotkeys no longer work.

From my experiments it seems that the following can interfere with the lights:
- Changing the illumination with option+p always turns the kb lights back on
- Option + right shift toggles night light mode
- OnCradleOn timeout stops dimmed mode, and turns on the kb lights.
I am afraid that this list is not complete.

Given the behaviour of SC, I suspect that you are unable to read reliably from the OS what the current status of dimmed mode and the kb lights are.

[jeffgibson]

Jeff,

I have checked out 0.9.25, and the problem with not reenabling alarms after a phone call is now fixed.

Cool!

I think the LED confirmation takes a bit too long, one cycle would be sufficient.

Agreed.

Nice that the font for the duration is now larger, could you also make the text field in the dialog box where you enter a profile name a bit wider, so that all possible 15 characters fit?

Agreed.

The auto kb light mode problem after p+p-p+p-L- is still present. Same with the system sound off problem.

I need much more detail on this issue. I can not reproduce this issue. I tried many different combinations of executing manual profiles but never did I get the 650 into a condition that was unexpected. I want to make sure there is just not a misunderstanding on how this is supposed to function. SC was coded to do the following when you enable the keyboard lights in a profile:

Keyboard lights will *only* come on when you hit a keyboard key when you have the keyboard option enabled in an active profile. Then 10 seconds after your last key press, the keyboard lights will go off again until the next keyboard activity. This option does not keep the keyboard lights on perminantly. So then if you disable the keybaord lights with a profile, the keyboard lights will go off and stay off. You can of coarse toggle them on again with the HotKey.

I again need more detail on how to reproduce the system sound issue. You said previously that the system sounds came on after you stopped a profile. This may be the correct thing for SC to do. If you manually adjusted the system sounds in the preferences application *after* you started the profile, those changes will be unknown to SC. SC will save the state of any command just prior to the profile applying its changes. So at the end of the profile those changes will be restored (or transfered to a nested or the next profile that has its start time equal to the end time of the stopping profile).

There are some funny interactions with OnCradleOn and a profie with auto dim mode on. One is that when OnCradleOn kicks in to prevent the Treo from turning off, the lights go back to undimmed. The other is that after that, the SC hotkeys no longer work.

Well I will check into the hetkeys no longer working after that. I have no idea what OCO is doing internally but dimming should again start dimming after OCO's initial startup. What would you expect to happen when OCO starts? Should the screen not undim?

From my experiments it seems that the following can interfere with the lights:
- Changing the illumination with option+p always turns the kb lights back on

Yes it should if you have KB lights enabled. This is because you touched keys on the keyboard. When KB lights disabled, this shoul dnot cause the lights to come on.

- Option + right shift toggles night light mode

Yes this is the way you manually cause the 650 to toggle between day/night mode. This is a built-in 650 hotkey.

- OnCradleOn timeout stops dimmed mode, and turns on the kb lights.
I am afraid that this list is not complete.

Again, I do not know what OCO is doing internally. This is an old utility that appears to be sending out keyboard characters during its processing.

Given the behaviour of SC, I suspect that you are unable to read reliably from the OS what the current status of dimmed mode and the kb lights are.

Dimmed mode is my code and not the OS's auto dimming feature. And I really think the KB lights are operating in the manner that I coded them to behave. That's why I'd like to get some more detail on what you are seeing and thinking is "incorrect" behavior. Based on that discusion we can move forward. I don't want to start making coding changes for KB lights until I am sure we are on the same page. Its very possible this is a documentation problem. Also could be there is still some bugs in this code.

Jeff

[jeffgibson]

New build available - B0.9.26

Fixes:

* Reduces the number of LED flashes during profile activity
* Added a comma between the date and time in the time display field in the Status Window
* Expanded the Profile Name field in the Add and Edit popup box in the Profile Manager screen
* Added the ability to show the current duration for an active Manual profile in the Manual Profile HotKey window. You can now adjust this value and re-execute the manual profile to update its duration.
* Fixed a problem with stopping a manual profile.
* Fixed the screen brightness slider behavior. No longer leaves screen brightness unrestored after leaving the control.

Jeff

[Moroner]

This really looks like an annoying bug to reproduce. I will try to fill in as many details as possible.
- I use the European GSM 650, with English as the language. It has FW 1.15 and ROM 1.06
- There are other programs installed on the phone, but apart from SC and OCO, no program is supposed to do anything with sounds and/or kb lights.
- I have included my settings (0.9.25), and OCO as attachments. The calendar manager is turned off, and the profile manager is turned on. In the global settings, I use beep as notification, "turn off alarms during call", profiles hotkey left shift, and kb light hotkey right shift. The rest there is turned off.
- I looked at the included source of OCO, and to prevent auto-off, OCO only tells the OS to delay the auto-off. No keyboard related stuff visible in the code.
- The problems occur reliably at any time. I also specificly checked them after a soft reset, and they then also happen reliably.

- To produce the kb light problem, I hotkey into the Profile Switcher, turn on "KbLightsOn", hotkey in to turnoff, hotkey in to turnon, hotkey in to turnoff, and then use right shift to turn off the lights again. When I now use the 5-way, the kb lights turn on.

- With the system sound problem, I first make sure that they are turned off in the System sound preferences, then I manually enable and disable directly afterwards again the profile "NoSystemSounds". When I use the 5-way to navigate, I hear the system sound click.

[jeffgibson]

This really looks like an annoying bug to reproduce. I will try to fill in as many details as possible.
- I use the European GSM 650, with English as the language. It has FW 1.15 and ROM 1.06
- There are other programs installed on the phone, but apart from SC and OCO, no program is supposed to do anything with sounds and/or kb lights.
- I have included my settings (0.9.25), and OCO as attachments. The calendar manager is turned off, and the profile manager is turned on. In the global settings, I use beep as notification, "turn off alarms during call", profiles hotkey left shift, and kb light hotkey right shift. The rest there is turned off.
- I looked at the included source of OCO, and to prevent auto-off, OCO only tells the OS to delay the auto-off. No keyboard related stuff visible in the code.
- The problems occur reliably at any time. I also specificly checked them after a soft reset, and they then also happen reliably.

- To produce the kb light problem, I hotkey into the Profile Switcher, turn on "KbLightsOn", hotkey in to turnoff, hotkey in to turnon, hotkey in to turnoff, and then use right shift to turn off the lights again. When I now use the 5-way, the kb lights turn on.

- With the system sound problem, I first make sure that they are turned off in the System sound preferences, then I manually enable and disable directly afterwards again the profile "NoSystemSounds". When I use the 5-way to navigate, I hear the system sound click.

First of all I made some changes in B26 that may solve your situation. Second, for the sound problem (it may also be fixed by 26) but make sure to have SC disabled and set your Treo to the default conditions that you want. Then enable SC and start your testing. With profile nesting, if you have a timed profile that has set system sounds (or any other command for that matter) it grabs the default conditions and then passes those defaults on to future profiles/calendar commands that overlap. So if you have SC enabled, you have a timed profile that sets system sounds and then you manually adjust the sounds. Then you execute a manual profile that re-sets system sounds, when that manual profile ends, it will set the system sounds to what the first profile saved as the base state for system sounds rather than the adjustment that you did through the preferences panel. Does this make sense?

Jeff

[Moroner]

I checked with B26, and the situation remains the same. For the test I do not have any timed profiles, and have disabled the calendar manager, to avoid any surprises.
Your explanation on how the nesting with timed profiles works matches my previous model. When a timed profile saves the previous settings, it does that for all settings, or is only a subset saved? If it saves all settings, then SC behaves differently with brightness levels. I put in a permanent profile that only changed the system sounds to silent, changed the brightness level (1), and then started/stopped a manual profile that changed the brightness level. After the profile stopped, it reverted to the brightness level at point (1), and not to the level when SC activated the time profile.

[jeffgibson]

I checked with B26, and the situation remains the same. For the test I do not have any timed profiles, and have disabled the calendar manager, to avoid any surprises.

OK cool.

Your explanation on how the nesting with timed profiles works matches my previous model. When a timed profile saves the previous settings, it does that for all settings, or is only a subset saved? If it saves all settings, then SC behaves differently with brightness levels.

SC will only save the state of the commands that it is asked to control in any given profile or calendar command.

I put in a permanent profile that only changed the system sounds to silent, changed the brightness level (1), and then started/stopped a manual profile that changed the brightness level. After the profile stopped, it reverted to the brightness level at point (1), and not to the level when SC activated the time profile.

Let me map out what I think you are saying:

Before enabling SC:
(numbers are just examples)
Brightness: 10
System Sounds: 10

Enable SC:

Timed profile (start):
Brightness: 3
System Sounds: 0

Manual profile (start):
Brightness: 5

Manual profile (after stopping manual profile):
Brightness: 3

Timed profile (Stop)
Brightness: 10
System Sounds: 10

TimeLine:

|-------+start timed profile+ ----+start manual profile+ ----+stop manual profile+----+stop timed profile+-----|


This is the correct behavior for these settings. This is because you nested the maual profile on top of a timed profile. When you do this, any commands that are common between the 2 profiles will be changed by the manual profile. Then when the manual profile has completed, the commands that were common between the 2 profiles, will once again be owned by the underlying profile. So the timed profile will once again apply its settings when the manual profile has completed. The default conditions for the common commands were passed from the timed profile to the manual profile then back again to the timed profile. So now when the timed profile ends, it will re-apply those default settings. In the case of the Brightness example, when the manual profile ends, the timed profile sets the brightness back to 3. Then when the timed profile ends, it will set the brightness to 10. To complete the explanation, since the manual profile did nothing with System Sounds, the timed profile still owned these settings and the system sounds remained at 0 during the time the manual profile was active. And the system sounds were only returned to their previous state when the Timed Profile ended.

Does this help? The overall concept is one of "command" ownership. Previous profile programs worked in an all or nothing mode. In other words, when you applied a profile, all conditions in a profile would automatically be applied and any previous conditions in other profiles would be stopped.

In ScheduleCare, only those commands/settings that you enable in a profile will be applied. All others are left alone. This allows you to build and layer profiles to meet any set of conditions and/or situations. This concept allows for the layering and nesting of profiles and calendar commands. So for example, you can build a "basestate" profile that runs from 12am-12am that sets all settings to a default state. Then during work hours you can just adjust those settings that make sense and leave the others alone. Then when a meeting even happens in your calendar, that calendar event can just mute all sounds but leave radio status and lighting alone. The flexability is unlimited. Once everyone learns the basic design concept or ScheduleCare and unlearns the runs of older profile programs, you will see the simplicity and at the same time the power of what SC brings to the table. In the most basic case, you can use this program just like older profile programs. In the most
sophisticated case, you will have a Treo that automatically configures itself for ever situation you can think of.

In fact, I will very soon be running a contest for the most creative profile layouts. As a part of the official product offering, I want to distribute some example profile layouts. From simple to complex. I am just trying to figure out how to fairly judge the submissions. I want to give away I think 3 licenses for the winners. As a part of the contest, I will request that people document their layout in a standard format that I will release very soon.

Jeff

[paulsjmail]

Jeff, I am noticing a couple of issues with the latest version of scheduleCare B0.9.26. A caveat first, there is always the possibility that one or all of these issues are due to user error on my part (so I'm asking for help but not blaming schedule care).

1. The most troubling issue I'm seeing (I don't think I saw this with any other verison) is something I noticed almost right away. I'm not sure what causes it, but schedule care seems to sometimes not pop up (so I can change profiles manually) when I have it set to pop up with the menu button. If I go back into schedule care, I can see that this setting is already checked and then it will work for a bit before it eventually stops responding to the menu button. I am unsure of why this is happening but I'm wondering if this is a bug or if anyone else is noticing this?

2. The other issue I'm noticing is that with the latest versions of schedule care (this started happening around the release of 9.23) after I go into schedule care to change a setting or to enable a new profile, zlauncher (the launcher I use) doesn't respond to button presses after that. If I change to another app and then change back into zlauncher, I can resume pressing buttons to activate apps from within zlauncher.

3. This is a very minor issue, I've noticed that when I'm in the profiles settings, I can incrementally change the settings (usually a slider for something like display brightness etc) with a greater range of possibilities if I use the stylus rather than the 5-way. For instance, I can change the brightness setting to be at a lower degree if I use the stylus. However, if I use the 5way, I see that it doesn't allow me to set it at the lowest end on the brightness range (it skips past one possibility to make the screen completely dark). Again, this is very minor because using the stylus does work.

On a very positive note, after using the latest versions of schedule care for a few days now, I've found that it has remained very stable on my Treo650 (no resets at all). Also, I've noticed that in B26 you have changed the pop up so that the first thing that is selected (by default) is the first profile, I like this change! Thanks for all your hard work with this utility.

[jeffgibson]

Jeff, I am noticing a couple of issues with the latest version of scheduleCare B0.9.26. A caveat first, there is always the possibility that one or all of these issues are due to user error on my part (so I'm asking for help but not blaming schedule care).

No problems here. That is the purpose of the Beta!

1. The most troubling issue I'm seeing (I don't think I saw this with any other verison) is something I noticed almost right away. I'm not sure what causes it, but schedule care seems to sometimes not pop up (so I can change profiles manually) when I have it set to pop up with the menu button. If I go back into schedule care, I can see that this setting is already checked and then it will work for a bit before it eventually stops responding to the menu button. I am unsure of why this is happening but I'm wondering if this is a bug or if anyone else is noticing this?

If this is happening right after installation, I can understand and explain the problem. You need to follow one of these proceedures when you install the programs.

Very first installtion on a clean system(ie no previous SC installation)
* Install both programs
* Execute SC
* Execute SC-HeyKey
* Execute SC and configure your profiles.

Upgrade and existing instllation:
* Install both programs
* Execute SC-HetKey
* Execute ScheduleCare

If you do not follow this installation process, ScheduleCare will not see or register the inter-process communication hooks between ScheduleCare and Sc-HotKey. The symptioms will be exactly what you are describing. HotKeys will not work and powerup popups will not appear.

I will try to improve this process for the production version (or at least fully document the process and build in alert message when the programs are not properly initialized.)

Also this process only needs to happen immediately following installation. Once confiugured, the programs will not need further attention.

2. The other issue I'm noticing is that with the latest versions of schedule care (this started happening around the release of 9.23) after I go into schedule care to change a setting or to enable a new profile, zlauncher (the launcher I use) doesn't respond to button presses after that. If I change to another app and then change back into zlauncher, I can resume pressing buttons to activate apps from within zlauncher.

Interresting. I also use Zlauncher and I am not seeing this behavior. Is it all keys that are ignored or just the center button? What settings do you have enabled in the Global Options Screen? Do you have KeyGuard enabled? Are you using any other keyguard program?

3. This is a very minor issue, I've noticed that when I'm in the profiles settings, I can incrementally change the settings (usually a slider for something like display brightness etc) with a greater range of possibilities if I use the stylus rather than the 5-way. For instance, I can change the brightness setting to be at a lower degree if I use the stylus. However, if I use the 5way, I see that it doesn't allow me to set it at the lowest end on the brightness range (it skips past one possibility to make the screen completely dark). Again, this is very minor because using the stylus does work.

Yes I see this sometimes too. I don't know what causes this. The slider control is very funny and inconsistent when you use the 5-way. Its as if a single press of a left/right 5-way generates multiple presses. I will look into this situation more but I think it is a factor of the slider that I am using. I am using what they call a "feedback slider" for the Screen Brightness control. This type of slider allows me to immediately respond to the slider movement and dim the screen as you move the slider rather than after you have stopped moving it. So there was a trade off in the implementation. I gave up some control over the way the slider behaves to provide a more intuative user interface. I also think the scale in this slider has something to do with the behavior you are seeing. The values for the display brightness range from 0 to 255. So there are a large number of possible values and the length of the slider is small in comparison to the number of values. So a very small movement of the slider causes a large change in the value the slider returns. So when you press the left/right 5-way the movement is relatively large. In the configuration of the control I gave it the smallest possible resolution for movement. This is probably too much detail isn't it??? I'll stop but at least you have some background information.

On a very positive note, after using the latest versions of schedule care for a few days now, I've found that it has remained very stable on my Treo650 (no resets at all). Also, I've noticed that in B26 you have changed the pop up so that the first thing that is selected (by default) is the first profile, I like this change! Thanks for all your hard work with this utility.

Thanks for the kind words! My goal is to produce the best Treo profile utility that has ever been produced.

Keep the feedback coming!

Jeff

[paulsjmail]

No problems here. That is the purpose of the Beta!


If this is happening right after installation, I can understand and explain the problem. You need to follow one of these proceedures when you install the programs.

Very helpful Jeff, I will try this out and see what happens. What if I didn't do this when I initially installed the latest version of SC (I always fully delete the previous beta), theoretically should I be able to do this now and get the desired behavior? Also (I know this is a rookie question), is there any background info on what the idea behind SC-Hot Key is (as opposed to just manually using the pop up), I probably missed a previous post about what it is supposed to do (I'll go back and read through the previous posts).

Interresting. I also use Zlauncher and I am not seeing this behavior. Is it all keys that are ignored or just the center button? What settings do you have enabled in the Global Options Screen? Do you have KeyGuard enabled? Are you using any other keyguard program?

Yes it's actually sort of strange, it's not quite all keys that stop working. If I actually go into the main SC programe to change something, and then go back into zlauncher, the keyboard stops working. Also, in addition to the center button not responding, the up/down on the 5way won't respond, but the left/right of the 5way does respond (go figure). In global options my settings are as follows:

1. Disable alerts during phone calls
2. Enable hotkey profile switch (press and hold "menu")
3. Enable Keyboard light control (double-side button)

I am only using the default treo 650 keyguard set to come on 30 seconds after the treo turns off. Before you spend any more time on this, I'll try completely deleting schedule care and then reinstalling it. Also, if no one else is seeing this (and you aren't either with zlauncher) it's likely to be something specific to me.

Yes I see this sometimes too. I don't know what causes this. The slider control is very funny and inconsistent when you use the 5-way. Its as if a single press of a left/right 5-way generates multiple presses.

This was actually really helpful, I do see what you mean as I recall at least one other developer mentioning this (I believe it was the developer of Datebk5).

[Moroner]

OK cool

Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding: I still have both problems (kb lights, muted system sound) with B26, the situation is unchanged from B25.

I will check your lengthy explanation tomorrow, after a good nights sleep

[Moroner]

Let me rephrase as I understand your explanation of how SC deals with settings. In a profile, for each setting, it can either remain unchanged, or it can be set to a new value. When a profile sets a value for a setting, it becomes the new owner of that setting. If a setting is set by a profile, and it was unowned before the profile became active, the profile remembers the old value. The old value is restored when the setting becomes unowned, that is when there is no longer any profile or calendar command controlling it. If, on the other hand, a setting is changed by a profile, and it was already owned before by another profile/calendar command, the current value is not remembered. At the end of the profile execution, one of the following two things happens: If another profile becomes the new owner, the value from the new owner is restored, otherwise, if there is no longer any owner, the original value saved by the first profile taking ownership is restored.

To illustrate, assume there are two overlapping timed profiles, p10 and p20, that both change a setting s. Lets say p10 changes the setting to value 10, and p20 the value to 20. Then the following is a valid profile execution:
s = 1 (start value set)
p10 starts, old s saved, and s set to 10
s = 8 (manual change)
p20 starts, s set to 20
p10 stops, p20 still has ownership, nothing changes
p20 stops, s set to 1 (value restored to original value before profile activation)

One more remark to B26: You changed the Profile Switcher such that the first profile button is now selected by default. I personally miss that you no longer default on the stop button when you have a running manual profile. Could you change the navigation that is this case, pressing the up-key on the 5-way takes me straight to the stop button?

[jeffgibson]

Let me rephrase as I understand your explanation of how SC deals with settings. In a profile, for each setting, it can either remain unchanged, or it can be set to a new value.

that is correct

When a profile sets a value for a setting, it becomes the new owner of that setting. If a setting is set by a profile, and it was unowned before the profile became active, the profile remembers the old value. The old value is restored when the setting becomes unowned, that is when there is no longer any profile or calendar command controlling it.

Correct except this is the case for calendar commands as well.

If, on the other hand, a setting is changed by a profile, and it was already owned before by another profile/calendar command, the current value is not remembered.

Not true. The original value of the setting that was saved by the first profile/calendar command is still saved.

At the end of the profile execution, one of the following two things happens: If another profile becomes the new owner, the value from the new owner is restored, otherwise, if there is no longer any owner, the original value saved by the first profile taking ownership is restored.

Well yes. If a new profile/calendar command becomes the new owner, its new values will be applied but the original state of the command (that was saved by the first owner of the comnad) is still saved. When the last profile/calendar command ends the original value for the command is restored.

To illustrate, assume there are two overlapping timed profiles, p10 and p20, that both change a setting s. Lets say p10 changes the setting to value 10, and p20 the value to 20. Then the following is a valid profile execution:
s = 1 (start value set)
p10 starts, old s saved, and s set to 10
s = 8 (manual change)
p20 starts, s set to 20
p10 stops, p20 still has ownership, nothing changes
p20 stops, s set to 1 (value restored to original value before profile activation)

This is the correct behavior.

One more remark to B26: You changed the Profile Switcher such that the first profile button is now selected by default. I personally miss that you no longer default on the stop button when you have a running manual profile. Could you change the navigation that is this case, pressing the up-key on the 5-way takes me straight to the stop button?

Well this is not exactly right. What I am now doing is moving the Nav ring to the currently active manual profile if one is active. I did this to highlite the fact that this is the active profile and that the new duration time is for the active profile. Once you 5-way off of this profile the duration time will change back to unlimited. I thought it might be too confusing to interpret the meaning of the duration value if I left the Nav ring on the STOP button. Thoughts???

[paulsjmail]

Well this is not exactly right. What I am now doing is moving the Nav ring to the currently active manual profile if one is active. I did this to highlite the fact that this is the active profile and that the new duration time is for the active profile. Once you 5-way off of this profile the duration time will change back to unlimited. I thought it might be too confusing to interpret the meaning of the duration value if I left the Nav ring on the STOP button. Thoughts???

As I mentioned a few posts above, I rather like this change. Of course, I can see how someone else might want the nav ring to default to being on the "stop" button if they use that button frequently. I never use the stop button (I am always using one profile or another) and I frequently change profiles, so having the nav ring on the current profile, saves me a few extra pushes on the 5way.

This is just a suggestion, but perhaps allowing a key like the "backspace" or the "period" key to initiate a full stop of the profiles would work out well in a situation where somone may want to frequently stop profiles (just a thought).

[Xathros]

I don't see this as an issue here. The stop button is big enough to be fingered which to me is easier than the 5 way anyway. Like paulsjmail, I will always have a profile in effect and will be switching between them regularly. One of my requestes early on was that the profile buttons, duration, page left, right buttons all should be fingerable for ease of use. I think Jeff has done a great job with the design of the profile select screen (and schedulecare as a whole) in making this as easy as possible. That said, a shortcut key for profile stop on the select screen wouldn't hurt I guess.

-X