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  1. #101  
    To me it's silly to go to one extreme or the other on the 650.

    Compared to it's direct predecessor the Treo 600, Palm blew the chance to increase the RAM to a reasonable amount (in fact they shrunk it!), and there are a few other issues of lesser importance. 'Datamangler' applies to more than one device so it's not specifically a Treo 650 unique problem.

    That said, moving the manufacturing over to HTC has resulted in MUCH improved hardware quality over the Treo 600 - having had to endure multiple 600 refurbs due to the network search, DOA and other issues I am shocked to see how well the 650 is holding up. The BT headset has a flaky reliability and terrible range, but it's finally supported and hopefully will be fixed on the next model. The screen is beautiful and remains so - it's really the only reason I took the financial and RAM hit to "upgrade" to the 650.

    All in all the 650 is a pretty good phone. Has it's issues, but nowhere as bad as some of the stuff coming out of Palm over the past few years. Holding up better than expected.
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  2. JJ623's Avatar
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    I have taken some considerable time to write this thread because I am so frustrated and disappointed with Palm as I imagine so many other customers are around the country. Hopefully this will address some of your issues and contribute to the improvement of Palm’s philosophy as how to release a product.

    First of all, I agree with many of you, the concept of having everything in one small package that fits into your pocket is fantastic. Having said that, it is my belief that if Palm held the 650 back a little longer, put a little more thought into the design, more time into the development and quality assurance, they would have save countless man-hours and frustration on their customers part and had many more loyal supporters.

    In my opinion, many companies put out a product that is "not ready for prime time." They seem to care more about the extra revenue they could acquire by a premature release rather than their customers or the quality of the product they are selling. To perpetuate this downward spiral, many consumers accept and expect this poor workmanship saying, “I don’t have time to deal with it” which is understandable considering the lack of quality customer support. One would almost think it is a strategy that is planned in the boardroom.

    For a light user, I am sure the 650 serves them well. For someone expects full functionality it is very disappointing and frustrating.

    It would be nice if Palm published on their site all the bugs as they were discovered. That would have saved everyone a lot of headaches and wasted time. I don’t believe that exists so I thought I would take a couple of minutes to highlight some of the major problems and design deficiencies with the Treo 650 that have plagued me and so many others. It is only through this type of critique that companies will hopefully be more accountable and put out higher quality products.

    How do they rate with support? How about ZERO! Before I gave up with Palms off-shore “support,” I experienced an appalling LACK OF SUPPORT. Most of the “support reps” knew less than I did about the 650 and because of the language barrier, some of the time it was difficult for them to understand the question much less come up with an answer. When I was reporting bugs and seeking answers/fixes, the support teams didn’t even have working models. On countless calls, I was promised a call back but can count on one hand the amount of times that I received one.

    I would guess that the most irritating severe problem with the Treo 650 would be of the device crashing. Some times it crashes when it is sitting on my desk doing nothing! I have often heard, “third party software or corrupt data is the reason the Treo crashes.”

    Do you believe that??? A well designed operating system should isolate the device from crashing especially when it would appear that the manufacturer encourages the development of third party software. It is also hard to believe that a company that let the 650 go out the door with such a severe and apparent problem as the memory allocation problem that they gave away 128 mgb cards to temporarily “patch” the problem would not have other significant problems in their operation system. On top of that, I have many times purposely kept only the Palm sanctioned software that came with the Treo on my device without any other software and it still crashed.

    And then there is the headphone jack. I have had the headset jack break on 2 different 650s!!!! A total of 3 defective Treos so far. I won’t even go into the fact that Palm was initially selling defective hybrid headsets for the 650.

    Then there are bugs or design deficiencies depending on how you view the world. When a particular function didn’t work in a reasonable or perceived manner, I was told on multiple occasions that the Treo just isn’t designed to perform that way. Here is one such example:

    One would think that one of the most basic functions of the 650 is to call people, yes??? Let’s try to find a company in our contacts. First enter a new contact, “Xyz Company” and a business phone number. Come back out to the main screen and start typing “xyz” (make sure that you have the appropriate options set: “typing starts contacts search”). Sure enough, it finds the company. Now let’s enter a persons name for that company and again come back out and start typing “xyz”. Where did it go? It didn’t find it but it is still there! Now imagine that you call on companies for a living and you don’t remember each of the 50 odd people that work at Xyz company. Don’t you think that a device like this would be designed to accommodate a simple task such as allowing you to search by company name and then displaying all the names for every entry that has that company name?

    I was told to use the “find” function in that situation.

    To me, that is like saying, “Your car wasn’t designed to start with the ignition key in all situations. When you find your key doesn’t work, simply push the car and pop the clutch until the engine starts!” If the find function is the preferred way of accomplishing that task, why did they give you the ”typing starts contacts search” option?

    If you continue to play with the contacts section, you will find other puzzling aspects of the design.

    Should you have to buy a third party software package to accomplish this simple issue? If you did, would that be another package that would cause the Treo to crash????

    The best work-around solution that I came up with was to always put the persons first and last name under the “last name” field. If there is a company name, I put it under the “first name” field. Not the way you would like it to be, but it does get around the problem described above as well as presenting the contacts in what I consider a better format.

    Here is one more issue that may illustrate the difference between a “light user” and someone that expects a higher level of functionality. After you place 500 mp3s on your SD card, try finding a title via RealPlayer. You have to look for it, screen by screen by screen. There were other issues with RealPlayer like the screen turning off, but not really turning off. Put it in your pocket while you are listening to your favorite tunes, after you think the screen is deactivated and you wind up inadvertently pushing all sorts of different buttons. I haven’t tried this in a while, but try creating a play list on the desktop and then downloading it to the Treo.

    Solution, buy Pocket Tunes.

    How about importing your contacts through the Palm desktop (which also has its own set of problems). Choose and arrange your labels and guess what! It DOES NOT maintain your choices. I was actually told by a Sprint tier 2 rep that neither Palm nor Sprint supports the labels that are selectable for phone numbers and email within the contact section. Like being told, “I know we built and sold you that car, but we don’t support the engine!” As amazing as that answer was, at least it was better than no answer at all which is what I always got before!

    Solution, first import them via Outlook.

    There are many other bugs and “design issues” but I frankly don’t have any more time to devote to this and you have most likely have read enough.

    I hope you are getting what you need from your 650. If not, help us make more companies accountable for the products they produce and how they support them after their release.

    Have a good day!


  3. #103  
    I could care less about the treo crashing while using apps or minor aesthetic differences, I just want the thing to function as a phone.

    1. I want to reliably place and receive phone calls, without crashing.

    2. I would like to hear and be heard clearly, without using an external headset. Tried VC, it worked but ended up damaging the main speaker.

    3. It would be nice if the microphone wouldn't just decide not to work at random, requiring a reset.

    4. It would really be nice if the phone wouldn't freeze up or turn itself off(PDA only) for no reason when not in use, preventing the user from receiving calls until noticed.

    5. I'll often get a message saying I have voice mail, dating several hours, occasionally minutes, back to a time when the phone just reset itself for no apparent reason.

    6. Battery Life is inconsistent. I've seen my Treo drain itself completely in 6 hours sitting on a counter top, then last two days of heavy usage(mp3).

    I would like to check out some 3rd party apps, but I don't want to make the system any more unstable than it already is. Other than that, I am satisfied with the PDA functions. I am currently running SW1.13/FW1.28 ROW. Things were much, much worse with both Cingular SW/FW versions.

    Bottom line is, there is no point in having a phone that you can watch movies on, if you can't make a call. If palm offered a refund, I would take it in a heartbeat. What I paid back in March was not that much less than I paid for my current PC.

    If you honestly believe that the 650 is perfect, there are no issues, and people are just whining, look at this very forum. This product has been out for nearly a year, and every single topic has to do with some major issue with this phone. You don't see people discussing cool new apps or undocumented features.
  4. #104  
    1. Works perfectly
    2. Works perfectly
    3. Works perfectly
    4. Works perfectly
    5. Works perfectly
    6. Works perfectly

    I guess that I either got a good one or I actually know how to use my phone. If you don't fall into one of those two categories, quit crying and sell your 650 on Ebay. Done.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Joe
    OMG. It cracks me up when I read the "my 650 is perfect and have never had any problems" posts. Try taking out of the box and turning it on
    What, you couldn't get it outa the box to turn it on?

  6. #106  
    I agree!! I have yet to experience most of the problems people have complained about on the boards. I do think the 1.15 update for Cingular phones has caused a few issues, but nothing that won't be fixed with the next update, and liveable. I love my Treo 650! It has everything *I* need.

    All the bells and whistles such as the digital music player and web browsing are what they are on a multi-functional smart phone. If you want a device that does a much better job than the 650, then get the device that is DEDICATED to that function. I compare it to trying to get a really good burrito at an american food diner. If you want a DANN GOOD burrito, go to an authentic mexican restaraunt. If you want a good web browsing experience, use a damn laptop or desktop. The same with a digital music player; if you want a good one, use your iPod. The fact that the Treo 650 HAS these things and that they DO perform the way they're supposed, is an amazing technology in my book.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    1. Works perfectly
    2. Works perfectly
    3. Works perfectly
    4. Works perfectly
    5. Works perfectly
    6. Works perfectly

    I guess that I either got a good one or I actually know how to use my phone. If you don't fall into one of those two categories, quit crying and sell your 650 on Ebay. Done. are you saying that anyone who discovers their Treo 650 doesn't "works perfectly," it's either an isolated defective phone or you are so talented above the rest of us that it is some sort of character defect when we point out the phone's shortcomings in a user group?

    Perhaps I'm not as emotionally fragile as you, but I don't start "crying" every time I have problems with technology - especially Palm products. Having had upwards of 20 different Palm OS models my tear ducts would have been fully drained years ago. I don't know about your affinity for selling anything that gives you any trouble on Ebay (maybe you are a stockholder?), but many of us are in these user groups to point out and learn about the inevitable problems with these devices to others (and hopefully Palm) and learn to work through them.

    If your first response to any problem with a product is to cry and then immediately put it on Ebay, you won't have much to contribute to this group.

    Owning and really using a Treo is usually a commitment to learning and helping others.... in time you will find that nothing in the world "works perfectly," but sometimes we can make them works pretty damn well.
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  8. #108  
    Sorry to hear that you're having so much trouble with your Treo. Keep practicing.
  9. #109  
    You 'heard' wrong, 2000 Man - "practicing" won't:

    1) fix the NVFS issues (but the firmware upgrade came close).
    2) correct the datamangler issues
    3) correct the "dead data connection" issue
    4) etc...

    Nice troll, though.
  10. #110  
    Here's a "problem" that even Palm is ADMITTING:
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  11. #111  
    Frankly I don't understand all the problems so many seem to be having.. my Treo 650 works perfectly in all respects. It has never crashed (although I've dropped it a few times with and without a case). It switches to the phone function with just a 1 to 2 second delay.I'm now using FW 1.43 with 1.13-ROW. Mine is a GSM unlocked unit. I'm using it around Asia.
  12. #112  
    Hey don't get me wrong, I have learned to love my 650 resets and all. But to say that you have never had a problem is just not true. If any of you have VC installed then you obviously had a volume problem at one stage. Some people just have a tougher time dealing with bleeding edge technology. Let them vent and try to be a little understanding.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    You 'heard' wrong, 2000 Man - "practicing" won't:

    1) fix the NVFS issues (but the firmware upgrade came close).
    2) correct the datamangler issues
    3) correct the "dead data connection" issue
    4) etc...

    Nice troll, though.
    1. No NVFS issues here
    2. Never had any data problems
    3. Never had any connection problems
    4. etc...

    Perhaps a less complicated phone is the way for you to go. No shame in that.
  14. lohphat's Avatar
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    When I pay $550 for a phone I expect little:

    1. Makes and receives calls.
    2. Bluetooth works.
    3. Speaker works.
    4. I don't have to play lockup/reset roulette hoping my phone won't reset when I'm in the middle of an SMS or a call.

    This phone is an unrelaible business tool. Period.

    If you want a toy that you spend 10 hours a week tweaking to try to get it perform as advertised, then this is for you.

    But I actually have a life and just want my phone to work without having to second guess its reliability.
  15. #115  
    I have replaced my Treo 650 twice so far, so I'm on my 3rd Treo and all because of headphone jack malfunction. Anyway, on my 3rd Treo which is brand new not refurbished. I don't use the palm headphone set, instead I use Seidio and so far no problems. I knew it; the problem was with the palm hybrid headphone set.

    But since I got my new Treo 650, 1/2 of my calls go straight to voicemail. I called Sprint and they told me that when I answer my VM I don't wait until the message say "Good Bye" and therefore my VM is still open. I know this is a BS. Because I never experienced this issue until the new Treo and I have not changed the way I use and answer my VM. The problem is defiantly with the Treo radio.

    Now in regards to crashes and voice quality and Bluetooth. I have them all with all of my 3 Treos.
  16. #116  
    I have to say, my Treo is working like a charm. Sure, every once and a while something will f*** up an it'll reset, but that's what happens when you're using applications from a variety of different sources. Sure, I got VolumeCare, I wanted the ringtone to be louder. And I have PowerRun, but to be honest, I don't use it (and I have 4.4 MB free). The Bluetooth works perfectly, the reception is better than my old freebie phone (Sprint), the backups work fine (Softick CardBackup), DTG works perfectly, even with files on the SD... I switched over from a Tungsten T3. I'm not sure if I'm just lucky and got a good unit, if everybody else is unlucky (or trolls ), or if I'm simply not noticing the problesm everybody else is (not likely).
    "'Form follows function' — that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  17. #117  
    One quick question? How many Palm employees are trolling this message board?
  18. #118  
    I currently am using a blackberry 7100g.

    I was using a treo 600 but had to stop using it because everytime I called the wife, she complained of echo everytime I spoke. It was and is a problem with the microphone.

    There seems to be similar problems with the 650.

    These smartphones need to works as a phone without problems. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by LunkHead
    I had a 600 before getting the 650... I had the 650 for about a month and while I was not getting reboots, the phone quality stunk... This has nothing to do with signal strength... I would have 4 bars and still had problems understanding others and everyone said I sound like I was in a wind tunnel... The Shadowmite patch did help a bit but sound quality was still lacking.... If it wants to be functional as a smart phone one would thing the phone part should actually work....

    I have since tossed in the towel on the 650 and went with a BlackBerry 7100T.... Having owned a 600, a 650 and now a 7100 I rate the 7100 leaps and bounds above the 650 for phone quality.... the 600 beats the 650 for phone quality... IMHO the ONLY reason to get a 650 is for the better screen.... But in doing so you must trade off phone quality....

    P1 missed the boat with me and has left a sour taste for the Treo line in my mouth.... BlackBerry has a new fan in me... Will I go back to a Treo when/if the problems are fixed...? I don't know... I originally thought that I would but the BlackBerry has really impressed.... The BlackBerry works exactly for what it was intended and works very well.....

    Just my 2 cents having owned a 600 for about a year, a 650 for a month, and a BlackBerry for a few weeks now....
  19. mgauss's Avatar
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    The problem with the Treo is that they had the opportunity to do it right and simple and they messed it up. Instead of offering a solid phone that could work right they did this:

    Should have been:----------------------This is what they did:

    Good reception--------------------------Poor reception
    Foolproof email-------------------------Nasty built in, expensive 3rd party
    Great Bluetooth-------------------------Crippled
    Wifi--------------------------------------Why try?
    Great Palm software--------------------You wan it yu by it
    Key software bundled-------------------25,000 software titles that crash
    Great speaker---------------------------Raspy
    Great included headset-----------------$5 headset doesn't work
    Nice cradle-------------------------------Cradle extra
    Great 2 meg camera--------------------.3 meg


    Nice screen------------------------------Nice screen

    The sin? They could have hooked us with great semi proprietary software that was intimately tied to phone strenghts. Leaving this crashing quagmire of resets will be a pleasure. I am afraid to add any software to the phone. Reset! Reset!
    Last edited by mgauss; 10/11/2005 at 10:51 PM. Reason: correction
  20. #120  
    Well, I just hooked bluetooth Dun up and am posting via this option after having the 650 for like three weeks. I was one of the first in my area with the 600. Loved it but craved the 650 upon attending the shows and seeing what else is out there. Guess what? There is nothing out there that'll compare with my device.In addition to making money with the help of this thing..(isn't that the real purpose guys?? I mean really? It's a business phone! Got it?), I watch Mobi-Tv which runs pretty darn well on there. 15fps and more. Stream shoutcast stations via ptunes.. Play games, watch movies, listen to Audiobooks, read E-books, compose documents, check and send emails.(a mouthful)I know there are problems and have cursed palm in the past and probably will in the future, but I gotta stay focused. I want to help you all but you seem to just wanna vent.. like you don't want to give up your toy but just cantankerously complain. You are preaching to the choir..we know this isn't the ultimate dream phone but the sweet spot is pretty close! Write Palm a letter or join the class-action lawsuit. I dunno what else to tell ya..(btw, I have been on Dun for well over an hour..)
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