[SamCraig]

fmertz

I feel your pain, but really - you can't judge manufacturing on your three feet and death scenario. There are an infinite possible ways that sucker could have fallen and been fine.. or not...

[darnell]

Shed not a tear for the insurers. It's a game. Play it or get played.

I like your 2nd idea where you suggested simply saving the money on your own if you don't like the insurance. They are offering a policy and if you accept it than you are legally bound by the terms. Trying to somehow paint them as a bad guy to justify fraud does not make defraunding an insurance company any less of a crime.

If you don't like the terms then don't buy into the deal. They let you know everything and all the rules. Take it or leave it.

And you could even see if a different insurance company will offer you a better policy if you want insurance.

The Treo is a HIGH RISK for any insurance company. So it is a given that the insurance is not cheap. They don't owe anyone terms that would be more preferable to you and they CERTAINLY should not have to pay for someone who did not have the insurance to begin with. That kind of fraud is what keeps the rates high to begin with and makes them even WORSE for everyone.

"AMAZING this is another issue that makes the T650 inferior to the T600."

I think it's quite a reach to imply that dropping a phone and sustaining damage makes the 650 inferior....

If the T650 is less sturdy than the T600 it certainly is a reason why the T650 is inferior to the T600.

I guess someone would have to do a number of tests to figure out which is more sturdy .

But given the T650 has a removable battery it does seem more likely that the T650 is inherently less sturdy. Not like going from the T600 to T650 is some quantum leap in technology. Especially considering the RAM issues.

[JoeTampa]

Drop an iPaq from 3 feet and see what happens.....

[darnell]

Drop an iPaq from 3 feet and see what happens.....

Never mind an iPaq. I've got a T600 that I've droped and never had an issue. Over the course of almost a year it has met with hard surfaces in drops several times. (Indoors and outdoors.) Never had an issue after any of the falls.

Now if the T650 can't take falls well that for me is an issue. The T650 should be able to endure normal wear and tear. For many of us a drop now and then is not uncommon.

[fmertz]

fmertz

I feel your pain, but really - you can't judge manufacturing on your three feet and death scenario. There are an infinite possible ways that sucker could have fallen and been fine.. or not...

No, but I can judge engineering. My brother hardware engineers have evolved greatly over the years, and their designs encompass human factors challenges like slippery fingers or lack of attention - both applying to my death drop. Three feet to a hard surface just has to be accounted for, as the number of expected drops could eat into profits. I'm not overly upset by this, because I really do love the technology, and I have been a Palm user from the very beginning, and I was the doofus that dropped the precious. However, I really want P1 to succeed, and 3 feet and a drop just doesn't seem like a huge engineering challenge these days.

[darnell]

I think this is why Dell and IBM are dropping laptops in their TV commercials .

[kschoenberg]

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

That's why it's hard to get too worked up about the whole "insurance fraud" thing, since the insurance itself is pretty much a fraud.

Can you defraud a fraud?

If you dupe someone who dupe you, is that bad?

I heard of someone getting a $49 platic phone as a replacement for their Treo 600 once ... because the warranty just had to replace 'a phone', and no 650's were available.

Shed not a tear for the insurers. It's a game. Play it or get played.

Umm...the math is off.

It's $5 a month so $60 a year. If you lose the phone it's $50 to get a replacement shipped to you. Is it a great deal? Well, I dunno. I wouldn't get it for a cheaper phone, but to insure a $600 device then $60 doesn't seem all that horrid. Of course, it is an insurance company and they're out to make money...and I'm sure they do.

But...whether they charge too much or not will not work as a defense to Insurance Fraud. So, if the ethical issues aren't enough...perhaps the criminal penalties might be.

Playing the game means what? Screwing over others for your own benefit? Maybe the insurance would be less if there were less folks playing your crappy game. How about living with a bit of honor rather than preaching how doing the wrong thing is okay.

As, I said...it sucks that he dropped his phone...might want to check with his homeowners policy to see if it's covered (although it might fall below the deductible). Otherwise, I guess it's one of those things that happen to us...take responsibility for it and buy a new one or have it repaired.

[illbits]

The warranty is your insurance.

Paying $120/year + $50 deductible + $10 admin fee to insure a $600 device is probably the worst risk/reward scenario in the insurance busines.

That's 1/3rd the cost of the device itself, assuming you paud full price - and half the cost of the device if you go a discount.

After two year, you have paid for the device in insurance costs. I don't see how anyone with a calculator and an IQ of 80 or above can think this is a wise investment.

You might as well put that money in a coffee can should you drop it.

At least you'll get a NEW phone, with all the latest revisions, and zero explanations, and zero hassle.

Will it cost a little more if you drop it in the first 6 months? Sure.

But what if you don't?

Paying half the cost of a phone to "insure" it just makes no sense, IMHO.

HAHAHA. I couldn't disagree more. 5 bucks a month is a drop in the bucket. My phone has been replace 5 times total. 4 of those times took less then 1 hour to have a BRAND NEW phone in my hands from a Sprint store. Try getting those results from a Credit card provider etc. If I had been putting money in a can I would have needed to put in about $250 a month for this kind of service.

[ChemEngr]

HAHAHA. I couldn't disagree more. 5 bucks a month is a drop in the bucket. My phone has been replace 5 times total. 4 of those times took less then 1 hour to have a BRAND NEW phone in my hands from a Sprint store. Try getting those results from a Credit card provider etc. If I had been putting money in a can I would have needed to put in about $250 a month for this kind of service.

I have to defunk your claim (pardon the pun). Lockline (I've read) will discontinue your coverage after replacing 2. True? Is it possible all those replacements were for warranty issues and didn't go through insurance at all?

[GoodNamesRTaken]

HAHAHA. I couldn't disagree more. 5 bucks a month is a drop in the bucket. My phone has been replace 5 times total. 4 of those times took less then 1 hour to have a BRAND NEW phone in my hands from a Sprint store. Try getting those results from a Credit card provider etc. If I had been putting money in a can I would have needed to put in about $250 a month for this kind of service.

If the phone malfunctioned, then there is something called a "warranty" that would have replacedit for free five times.

If YOU broke it 5 times, then I would agree that you are one of the rare people who should buy the "insurance".

Let me clarify .... anyone who intends to play dodgeball with their Treo *should* definitely get the insurance.

Those who don't, are getting ripped off.

The warranty is your insurance against manufacturer defects.

[GoodNamesRTaken]

I like your 2nd idea where you suggested simply saving the money on your own if you don't like the insurance. They are offering a policy and if you accept it than you are legally bound by the terms. Trying to somehow paint them as a bad guy to justify fraud does not make defraunding an insurance company any less of a crime.

Don't agree. The amont of fraud the the insurance agencies perpetrate on the american public would render the industry an illegal racketeering rap if not for lobbyists working 24/7 on the hill.

They do some really, reall underhanded (and yes, illegal) things to get out of paying perfectly valid claims.

Honesty on your part will not be requited, rather penalized. You need to act according to who you deal with.

I have heard of people getting re-furbed phones, and even non-PDA phones as replacements when there is a shortage (there is a clause buried in there somewhere, the small print always taketh away what the big print giveth).

If i'm paying that big a percentage of the phone cost in insurance, I want a new phone of the same type.

But I agree, the best course of action is to put the premiums in a coffee can, take care of the phone as best you can, and see how much you have in that can when you drop it. Hopefully it will be enough for you to get the latest and greatest phone, or result in a smaller cash outlay for you to get another. If you're a good customer 9/10 times you can get a cash discount on your replacement phone (the carrier does wants to keep you), and when you subtract the coffee can money from that, it may be a small amount for a garanteed brand-spanking-new phone of your choice.

Unless you are like the guy who is on his 5th Treo due to fault of his own.

Then, by all means, but all the "insurance" you can find.

[GoodNamesRTaken]

Never mind an iPaq. I've got a T600 that I've droped and never had an issue. Over the course of almost a year it has met with hard surfaces in drops several times. (Indoors and outdoors.) Never had an issue after any of the falls.

Now if the T650 can't take falls well that for me is an issue. The T650 should be able to endure normal wear and tear. For many of us a drop now and then is not uncommon.

Well, I wsa goping through a grocery store aisle and rather gently bumped my 600 into one of those aliminum magazine rack. It was on my belt, and there was plenty of "give" from the loose clip, and it REALLY was pretty darn minor.

I was shocked to turn it on and find a big honking whited out area of the screen were I had bumped it. This was in addiction to the hald-moon shaped screen blemish that it shipped with.

Given the rate of failures on the 600, I dared not return it for fear of getting in the return/replace cycle ... and am using it as-is. I got used to it, and the two things don't bother me much, but I certainly would consider the Treo 600 a "fragile" phone. At least from my experience.

[darnell]

Don't agree. The amont of fraud the the insurance agencies perpetrate on the american public would render the industry an illegal racketeering rap if not for lobbyists working 24/7 on the hill.

They do some really, reall underhanded (and yes, illegal) things to get out of paying perfectly valid claims.

Honesty on your part will not be requited, rather penalized. You need to act according to who you deal with.

You are trying to demonize an entire industry and treat Lockline as if they are doing something illegal themselves. I have not seen any such claims here from anyone. Everyone that has needed to use the insurance that I've ever seen post here has said that things were handled as expected.

Your attempts to demonize in no way justify fraundulent and illegal activity by anyone .

If you don't like the insurance then don't use it. I just suggested that you and anyone in agreement with you take your advice in not buying the insurance. And NOT take your advice that they defraud Lockline! This does not mean that I will make either choice myself.

[GoodNamesRTaken]

Maybe I should use that "spellcheck feature".

Eeeeeesh. I get annoyed reading my own posts. Sorry.

I need to get typo insurance. I heard that lockline sells it for only $50 month with a $1,000,000 deductible. What a bargain!!!!! ;-)

[darnell]

I need to get typo insurance. I heard that lockline sells it for only $50 month with a $1,000,000 deductible. What a bargain!!!!! ;-)

Would it be "illegal" for Lockline to sell it if you were willing to buy it ?

[GoodNamesRTaken]

You are trying to demonize an entire industry and treat Lockline as if they are doing something illegal themselves. I have not seen any such claims here from anyone.

The key word is "here".

Everyone that has needed to use the insurance that I've ever seen post here has said that things were handled as expected.

Again, the key words are "post here". Check usenet re: lockline. And i've heard some personal horror stories from collegues, but that's irrelevant.

Your attempts to demonize in no way justify fraundulent and illegal activity by anyone .

Well, it's an age old moral question. Is fraudluent activity justified against an entity that will defraud you if they could get away with it?

I agree with you that it is not moral. But, it's still hard for me to get too worked up about it.

Rather, I would say just don't deal with them.

If you don't like the insurance then don't use it.

I don't.

I just suggested that you and anyone in agreement with you take your advice in not buying the insurance. And NOT take your advice that they defraud Lockline! This does not mean that I will make either choice myself.

I agree. Better just to not use it. You have a warrantly for manufacuter defects.

It's just that simple. I don't use them. I don't defraud them. I don't do anything with them.

Bada-bing. Issue solved.

[GoodNamesRTaken]

Would it be "illegal" for Lockline to sell it if you were willing to buy it ?

Only if they tried to avoid paying up.

[GoodNamesRTaken]

HAHAHA. I couldn't disagree more. 5 bucks a month is a drop in the bucket. My phone has been replace 5 times total. 4 of those times took less then 1 hour to have a BRAND NEW phone in my hands from a Sprint store. Try getting those results from a Credit card provider etc. If I had been putting money in a can I would have needed to put in about $250 a month for this kind of service.

Wait, I just realized something. You got 5 phones replaced. At $50 deductible + $10 junk fee, that = $60 x 5 = $300 that you paid out to benefit from your "insurance".

Dude!

You should have sprung for a new Treo out of your own pocket and invested another $100 in a friggin titanium, bulletproof case.

[darnell]

GoodNamesRTaken - If you would not defraud them yourself it seems pretty ironic that you suggested it.

If someone you've know has had issues with Lockline that's for you to factor into your decision. I can't say I've had all these issues with Insurance Companies that you continue speaking of. All my experiences have been fine.

If Lockline was such a problem I think there would be far more negative reports even "here".

[dutchtrumpet]

this thread has been hijacked