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  1.    #1  
    Ok here are my experiences which I hope will help:

    I too have had dozens of crash loops. Here is what I did to stop them.

    Do a hard reset on the Treo 650 allowing you to start over. Hold down the power button while at the same time use the stylus on the reset button.

    In your PC hard drive locate the Backup folder

    C:\Program Files\Palm\XXXXX\Backup

    Where XXXXX is what you named your phone.

    Then delete the contents of the Backup Folder (or move the contents to a folder of your choice). This resets everything so nothing in that folder gets back on your Treo that was corrupted.

    By the way if you were successful in transferring contacts and calendar information, that information will not be deleted by deleting the Backup Folder. That information is located in the address and datebook folders and should not be disturbed.

    Purchase a secure digital memory card. Anything will do almost. Heck, even a 64 meg card will work. Download PowerRun 1.3 and install it. All this works with the trial version. Shameless plug: I personally have ordered a SanDisk 1 gig Ultra II to hopefully have good performance and space for video recording from the built in camera.

    Then install one or two of your programs at a time from scratch.
    Do a HotSync.
    Run PowerRun and move the programs you just installed to the secure digital card.
    Repeat the process (if your brave install 5 programs at a time).
    Run PowerRun and move these new programs to the secure digital card.

    Repeat the above process until you have everything on the card. BUT do not attempt to move AOL 3.2.1 (a Treo 600 version) or any other programs which where already available to you after the hard reset. (PowerRun should only show the programs you installed anyway) There may be other programs like AOL that may dislike being moved to the card but AOL is the only one which I found so far.

    After running the above sequence you should see shortcuts (created by PowerRun) under "unfiled". Use Catagorys (click on the menu button to access this) to put them in catagorys where you want them. You can now run these shortcuts. PowerRun will move the selected run program and data files to internal STATIC memory of the Treo 650. It is my understanding that the Treo 650 has both static and non-volatile memory.

    Ok. So why did we have to do this? I have concluded programs which behave themselves on earlier Palm systems are having a problem dealing with the new File Structure of Palm OS 5.4 associated with the Non-Volatile memory of the Treo 650.

    In essense, taking everything off of the Non-Volatile memory of the Treo 650 and putting it on the secure digital card makes things work again because when you run these programs/data files, they are placed into STATIC memory on the Treo 650 (by PowerRun). And because they are NOT being executed from Non-Volatile memory the programs work normally. And like magic no more crash loops. I have been using it in this mode with about 20 applications installed with no problems. It has been very stable.

    You could do it with ZLauncher and other programs too but PowerRun is simpler and takes up a very small amount of Non-Volatile memory. The less the better.

    The comment about AOL above was provided because AOL version 3.2.1 is not compatable with PowerRun 1.3. At least that was my conclusion.

    I took the time to write this up because I believe others may benefit from a plan that works. At least it works for me.

    As usual, your mileage may vary but it seems logical and the Treo 650 has been stable without any crash looping.

    What do you people think?

  2.    #2  
    Well how about that...

    Three minutes after I wrote this I read another thread which references official information from Palm which basically authenticate the process I documented above. I still believe the info is useful.

    The link to the story is here:
  3. #3  
    Thanks for the post, it's good to see people working on the issues But I don't think it's that simple. I've used PowerRun in the manner you talk about since Day One and have had reset loops. I think it's simply an issue of some apps having problems with the new file system, plain and simple. I've also noticed that the Hotsync backup procedure does not back up all the PowerRun shortcuts, making restores difficult. Solutions will come but it will take some time.
  4.    #4  

    I agree that the Hotsync backup procedure does not back up all the PowerRun shortcuts BUT it is so dang simple in PowerRun to re-do them I would do that any day over doing a hard reset and starting all over. In addition the real applications are on your secure digital memory card. So, unless the card goes crazy too the chances are much in our favor of less stability.

    This whole experience is giving me flash backs when Apple Computer came out with new operating systems that applications had temporary problems with. I honestly believe PalmOne will resolve the current memory situation. The Treo 650 is truly worth the effort by both the clients as well as PalmOne to stay with it. I for one believe it is an excellent tool.

    Stay Tuned
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by DaleReeck
    I've also noticed that the Hotsync backup procedure does not back up all the PowerRun shortcuts, making restores difficult. Solutions will come but it will take some time.
    If you read the PowerRun website/manual you will note that it specifically states that applications/databases that are on your card prior to PowerRun being installed will not show up. This is essentially what happens when you get the crash loop - then you have to do a hard reset - then you reinstall PowerRun and the "shortcuts" are not there.

    edited to remove my stupid PowerRun reset
    procedures when you can do the same thing
    by using the "Update Shortcuts" feature

    I'm having a terrible time with this crash loop issue. Thanks to the suggestions in post #1 I'm able to recover more quickly by using PowerRun.

    Here's what happens to me:
    - something causes crash/loop
    - I do a hard reset
    - if I just to a sync at this point all of the data gets loaded back on the 650 but when it's done it tells me I have to "reset"
    - after the reset, you guessed it, I'm in crash loop mode again

    Here's my solution, for now, which is a little different from post #1 (YMMV):
    - after the hard reset, I make a copy of my XXXXX\Backup folder
    - now I do a sync it's at the most basic level and it is successful and it does not ask you to "reset"
    - next, copy all the "files" from your backup into the newly created XXXXX\Backup folder
    - when the window pops up press "Yes to all" *
    - then I go to the hotsync icon in the tool tray (this is IMPORTANT)B]**[/B]
    -> change the Action for Backup to Desktop overwrites Handheld
    -> I change the Contacts and Calendar to Do Nothing because these two take an ungodly long time to sync and I can do them later
    - then do another hotsync, when finished it asks to "reset" but now it does so without going back to crash/loop mode
    - now you just have to do the PowerRUN changes described above and you're back in business

    * Yes to All - allow all of your setup changes to be preserved. This is the most annoying thing to me about starting over. I have hotkeys, preferences, web pages, etc. that I've changed and I had going back and redoing them all.
    ** Don't forget this step!!!!

    Hope this helps someone out there
    Last edited by BroncosFan; 11/26/2004 at 10:14 AM.
    Visor Deluxe/Visor Platinum/Visor Phone/Treo 180/Treo 270/Treo 300/Treo 650
  6. #6  
    I know that PowerRun apps can be easily repaired. I guess my point about the PowerRun shortcuts is, if those aren't being backed up, I wonder what else Palm backup is missing. I hope BackupBuddy gets patched up to work on the 650. I miss that program
  7. #7  
    Interesting reading. Indeed.
    I've used my Treo 650 for years. Yesterday I found 5-6 new handy free apps and all of a sudden I experience my first reset loop this evening.
    My problem, though, is that a hard reset (power button + reset button) does NOT work.
    No matter how long and often I try, the thing keeps on looping.

    Does anyone have a clue ?

    Thx !
    (I'll be glad to post more details if that would help)
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by molintreo View Post
    ....reset loop...
    My problem, though, is that a hard reset (power button + reset button) does NOT work.
    No matter how long and often I try, the thing keeps on looping.
    I found the solution (or at least 95% of it) and could fix it myself.

    Ergo, if a hard-reset (red power button+reset button) does not work for you, try the official version on

    1. Removing the battery.
    2. Hold down the RED POWER button and put the battery back in at the same time.
    3. Keep holding down the POWER button until you see the GRAY Palm Powered, then release.
    4. You'll see the message, "Erase all data?" At this point, remove your stylus and press it into the reset hole located on the back of the phone (behind the battery cover on the left-hand side) and press UP on the navigational key at the same time as you depress the reset button with the stylus.

    I was very disappointed to see that it didn't work in the first place, but after slightly modifying step 4 through cutting-out the part with the pushing of the reset button with the stylus (thus only answering the "Erase data?" question with a press of the "up" button as the screen code says) worked !

    Thx !
    Psion Series5, Psion Series5mx, Palm IIIx, Palm Treo 650 !!

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