View Poll Results: What do you think of the Treo 650?

138. You may not vote on this poll
  • Have one: Love it!

    36 26.09%
  • Have one: It's okay.

    6 4.35%
  • Have one: I'm sending it back!

    6 4.35%
  • Don't have one: Can't wait to get mine!

    35 25.36%
  • Don't have one: not sure yet.

    37 26.81%
  • Don't have one: No way I'll buy one!

    18 13.04%
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Results 21 to 38 of 38
  1. #21  
    GoodNamesRTaken, I'm in the same boat... developed Palm software in the past just as you did, always loved Palm for their vision and execution, always turning people to Palm and helping (forcing?) them to realize the key areas that Palm devices were better than MS competitors (battery, usability, stability)... very sad indeed that I have been considering the PPC6600.

    However, I will not buy the MS device, I'm going to stick with my 600 for a while. Its still a great device! PalmOne will either fix or drop this terrible new memory scheme. Hopefully they will not be destroyed by MS while recovering from this mess and release something worth spending more money on (Treo 700?). Until then, I see no need to upgrade or change devices.
    "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, 1989
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodNamesRTaken
    If one had a Treo 300 or a non-Treo, it would make sense to buy the 650. I've been eagerly waiting, and i've been trying really, really, really hard to justify a $600 upgrade from the Treo 600 -> Treo 650.

    But, it's just not there. Doubling the resolution is great, no doubt. But losing 40% of the internal memory counterbalances that. Now, is being able to use a bluetooth wireless headset and car kit worth $600? Well, not to me. The thin headset cable isn't that bad, and they are so cheap when I sit on it, I simply buy another. Also, what of my $200 worth of Treo 600 accessories? Worthless. So, I guess the Treo 650 is really an $800 upgrade to get to the same point that I am now.

    And will the $300 or so of software that I bought work? Maybe, maybe not.

    Being that it's just a slight upgrade to the phone I already have, with some things added, some things taken away, and fully incompatible with every accessory I own - this one is tough to justify.

    I've been using PALM exclusively since the 90's. I started wireless email on the Palm VII (anyone remember that?) I got the developer kit, joined the PalmDEV program, began writing apps, and was responsible or many people getting Palm Devices. I was litererally a Palm ***** and people got sick of me talking about my PALM devices. I was basically an unpaid PRPRPR $person$ $in$ $a$ $large$ $city$.

    Now, i'm eyeballing the PPC6600, and bugging Sprint about when it will be available.

    Do I feel like an awful traitor? Well, yes, yes I do. I thought this 650 would have tons of RAM, a 1.3mpxl camera and Wi-Fi, along with the screen upgrade.

    A 40% memory reduction, and 640x480 camera? Ouch.

    As bad as I feel for putting the money aside for the PPC, i'm not sure anybody could blame me.

    There simply is not a real, viable reason to pay $800 to go from the Treo 600 to the Treo 650. The only NEW thing you can really do is use wireless headsets and hotsyncs. Cradle hotsyncing once a day really only takes 60 seconds.

    I hate to say it, but i'm not buying it. And you have no idea how suprised my collegues, friends, and associates are going to be to hear this.

    I think it's going to be a PPC world in 2 years. I might as well start getting famiiar with it.

    It looks like it's the end of a superb 1995-2004 run for PALM, and i'll miss it.
    An earlier post raises some of the issues - but this post isn't really too far from the point. The 650 is not a major upgrade from the 600. Not like the jump from the 300 to the 600. Yes, perhaps the $$ cost of getting a 650 can be mitigated by selling on eBay to recoup some of the investment - but I think this really misses the point of PalmOne's problems.

    PalmOne sold the 600 promising that BT and WiFi would be available on that device with SD cards to support that technology. The entire time this was being done - every engineer who worked on the phone knew fully well that this was impossible because of the design issues with the 600. So, PalmOne comes out with the 650. Yes, a much better screen. The screen the 600 should have had. Yes, with BT - but BT was promised 14 months ago, and many bought the 600 for the potential of BT never knowing until last summer that it was architecturally impossible to achieve. The 650 doesn't have WiFi out of the box - but with the design changes - it appears WiFi is possible this time as opposed to the empty promise on the 600.

    PalmOne also hampers this device with the same memory as the 600 (major screwing of the pooch) and the same camera (not an issue with me) and the need for new accessories, and in some cases new software.

    The 650 just doesn't seem to be worth the move - and given the way they treat their loyal customers - I wonder if holding on to the 600 is the best course or to jump to a platform / manufacturer that delivers what they promise.

    I answered maybe because perhaps in 6 months, if wifi is supported, and the price comes down - it would be in my interest to jump - but I will also be looking hard at PocketPC based devices. I just have no faith in the future of PalmOne - or supporting an organization that can't / doesn't want to come out with the best product as opposed one just a small benefit from the last - but maybe good enough to get people who spent $400-$600 less than 14 months ago to do it again.
  3. Stig's Avatar
    329 Posts
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    438 Global Posts
    Can anyone guess how much it would cost P1 to put 64MB RAM in each unit rather than 32? I'm guessing a few dollars. The Tungsten C and T3 have 64MB RAM, so why didn't they specify this for the Treo 650?
  4. #24  
    I couldn't have said it any better.
    The tungsten c, a device that's been around for 3 to 4 years already, has 64mb ram!!! And a treo 650 can't enjoy that upgrade at the present time?!

    the memory issues been beaten senselessly to death here, but I find myself repeatedly baffled at this decision by palmone.

    the zlauncher solution seems like a real winner to me. You can launch apps from the sd card via zlauncher. So there is a way around all this worry and panic. Still, I look forward to a possible rom update to fix the problem.
    seriously though, 64mb ram would have made this treo absolutely, positively the champion smartphone all across the land!!! Bar NONE.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    An interesting post. I don't know how you get half your numbers though. A Treo 600 with $200 worth of accessories is worth at least $400 on eBay. So that cuts your price of the Treo 650 in half. Take Palm's free $99 bluetooth headset and you could probably get a $475 on ebay for the package. Suddenly you aren't paying $800 for a Treo 650 any more. You'd be paying a net of about $125 plus whatever accessories you need (which doesn't include bluetooth it seems, so that will save you money). Lastly if you bought from Sprint you might be eligible for their rebate program, so that would be even more money off.

    You don't get double the resolution from the Treo 650, you get quadruple (do the math 320x320 is 4x160x160).

    All that said, I agree with the spirit of your post. I am very against the memory limits on the Treo 650. I just felt like I'd clear up a large part of this math.


    Your points are all well taken. The problem is that my Treo 300 will now hold a charge for about 15 minutes maximum (no Ebay), and the 600 is 14 months old, and has an effective 10 months of life left on the battery since they are not (easily) replacable. ANNDDDDDD .... here's the big one. I bumped into a news stand with the 600 hanging on my belt clip. Not hard mind you, actually quite gently, but it was enough to put a 1/4" 'bright spot distortion' on the screen. ANNNNDDDDD ..... my 600 shipped with that annoying half-moon shaped distortion on the left side. I didn't send it in for warranty replacement because I needed the device, and it didn't bother me that much. I don't think i'm going to fetch a whole lot on Ebay for any of my current Treo's, even though I really have babied them to the best of my ability.

    As far as the resolution, while you are correct that the 650 has 4 times more pixels than the 600, but it is fairly common nomenclature to indicate that 1280x760 is "double" the resolution of 640x480, and 1600x1200 is "twice the resolution" of 800x600. I know that it is inaccurate in the technical sense, but for the most part, this is how most laypeople speak of resolution. The number of verticle pixels and the number of horizontal pixels seems to be the dominant advertising method.

    So, i'm not ignorant of that fact, I just use a different commonly accepted term. Either way, I think the screen on the 650 is magnificent (yes, i've had many hours hands-on with it).

    So, while my math may be spot on, it wasn't completely off-base.

    And if the memory issue is resolves fairly quickly (I have 1mb free space on my 600 even with Zlauncher - frankly 23mb on the 600 was never enough for me), then P1 can quickly win me back.

    Then again, I don't know if they really want me. They seem to be shooting for a slightly different market this time around. Not quite high end, not quite low end, but somewhere in between.

    I push my devices as far as they will let me go, and am clearly outside of the target audience this time around.
  6. #26  
    I've loaded everything and I need and am 50% full. Good deal. :-)
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    I've loaded everything and I need and am 50% full. Good deal. :-)
    Well, that's always been the obvious part of the debate.

    If you don't use much memory, you aren't going to have a problem. If you do use much memory (anywhere near 23Mb), you will have a problem.

    It's really just that simple.

    I have 1Mb free on the 600 using Zlauncher. Obviously, I am going to be 150% full on the 650.

    If you requirements are low, the memory is not an issue.

    Similarly, if you have just a few applications on your PC, a 10Gb hard drive will suffice. Heck, most soccermom's and non-MP3 and Video File editors probably *could* get away with a 10Gb hard drive just fine, truth be told.

    It's enough to hold a web browser and email client, which is 90% of their usage.

    I see few high-end PC's shipping with 10Gb hard drive, though.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    ... ...
    I got Vindigo manually moved onto the SD card, and every other vfs-compatible app over there too.... ...

    I didn't know Vindigo would operate from a card. Can you tell me a little more about this? Will it still wirelessly sync? Exactly which files do you have to move to the card?
  9. #29  
    obviously everyones results will vary. I have both T600 and T650. Reading these threads scared the --- out of me before I got my T650 as I had T600 that was full (to get space I managed Blazer memory usage and had long ago deleted Avantgo).

    So I decided to do a clean install and move my apps in priority order (most used and conduit-based) to my new T650 until it was full. I also moved all games, FileZ, eReader and books to a SD card with native copy app function (you can also just put them on SD card in correct directory) - no fancy launcher seems necessary. I found all games and eReader to run just fine on SD card for T600 or T650.

    The early results are promising. I plan to post a spreadsheet with app by app comparison (Vindigo, snappermail, Bizcon, DocsToGo, AAFlights, Win-Hand, etc). I've got some apps to go.

    Let me give some summary to date.
    1) I've got all apps above installed, 1148 cal; 631 contacts; 23 tasks; 48 memos and still have 9MB free.
    2) not all prc and pdb expand the same percentage - in fact some expand very little and others expand a lot. e.g. SS_P2P.prc 224k to 239k; WP_P2P.prc 179k to 194k

    And frankly the screen is AWESOME and makes the whole device better.

    p.s. it's the holidays so I don't know when I will have complete results; if you can't wait PM me or just email me and I will try and get you spreadsheet sooner.
    Last edited by davidrmay; 12/22/2004 at 02:26 AM. Reason: correct message
    Palm Pre and a nice collection of Treos: 755p, 700, 650, 600, 300 and Palm Pilots, Visors, and Sony Clie
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidrmay
    obviously everyones results will vary. I have both T600 and T650. Reading these threads scared the --- out of me before I got my T650 as I had T600 that was full (to get space I managed Blazer memory usage and had long ago deleted Avantgo). <snip>
    I now have both as well (long story, don't ask)

    The problem with the "native copy" to SD card, is that it does not move the associated databases, which can be much larger than the application itself.

    I had 1Mb Free on the Treo 600 when the 650 came out, and I obviously couldn't load everything up on the 650.

    Basically, I carry the 600 as my primary phone with contacts, memos, calendar, etc ... and I use the 650 at home to surf the pretty pictures of the web, and take pictures to email with the better camera. I do have Z-Launcher on it, but I still don't have enough for all of my data. My memo database went ballistic, because I have many thousands since the 1990's.

    The 5-way Nav on the 600 is more functional, it dials faster from contacts, all of my software actually works, and the memory+SD card works.

    If I could keep only one of them, it would be the 600. It's not as pretty that's for sure, but for a person like myself who uses it all day long and loads it up with all it can handle - it is more functional overall.

    The 650 is my backup phone (and I got a real big discount, so it's not as much of a waste as it my seem).

    Like I said, if you've never had a smartphone, then the 650 will probably suffice. It might even blow your socks off. It's the prettiest PALM yet. (but I still think my i700's screen looks nicer).

    But, If you've been using PALM's since the 90's, and pushed them to their limits, the 650 might very well disappoint.

    It's consumer-pretty, while flipping the bird to long time power users.

    Then again, AOL survives on "consumer pretty" just fine, so i'm not even implying that the device will not be a monetary success - just a potential dissapointment for the Palm-o-phile.
  11. #31  
    Oh, and the sound quality on the 600 is better than the 650, on both the calling and receiving end, from personal and collegue observation.

    Reaffirming that, as a day to day smartphone, the 600 gets the definite nod, IMHO.
  12. #32  
    You know, Ive had such serious doubts about the 650 and since it came out is the only time I've started to appreciate the 600 but your post just about sealed the deal with me. I think, for the first time, I'll skip a version and wait for the T700. The 650 seems, from all the comments, to be exactly as you describe it. Even those who rave about it are doing it in a kind of reactive way. I like to keep a lot of memory open (perhaps a stupid remnant of PC days) and so I have about 8 M open on my 600, but my data card is half full also, and I try to move everything over there all the time. The sound quality on the 600 is nothing to write or call home about, so if the 650 isn't even that good...sheesh...who needs it. I'm sure it's fun to use, and pretty, but I've just about got all the bugs worked out on my 600 after a year. And that was a lot of work!
  13. #33  
    I guess it all depends what apps you have. I thought I was a power user with my T600 and now using T650 still have about 5mb left on it. Heres a list of what I did have before the ROM update (with DUN, voice memo, notepad, no real, no GetBC, no Download, No Quick Tour), and installed Power Run.

    Bob's Alarm
    Card Export
    Directory Assistant
    Documents to Go
    KB Lights
    Mp3 Ringer
    Power Up
    Voice Dial
    Webpro 3.0a (cache cleared)

    After ROM and Powerun I now have 12.4mb free and have transferred the following to the SD card and they all still work.

    Card Export
    Directory Assistant
    Documents to Go (Powerrun doesn't recommend to transfer this but still works for me)
    WebPro 3.0a

    The only draw back is there's a lag when running these programs but I'm ok with it considering how much RAM I've openned up.
    Last edited by aznmode; 12/22/2004 at 05:47 PM.
  14. #34  
    Yeah, what I posted was only my opinion. My big problems are the DATABASES. Apps are easy to move to cards, databases can be a problem. For instance, my Memo database more than quadrupled (?!). Memory card doesn't help. Ditto on calandar, tasks, and contacts. Not all of them quadrupled, but I can't put everything into the 650. And, as you know, these cannot run from a SD card. A phone of this caliber simply HAS to have a generous amount of internal memory - if for no other reason than such memory is incredibly cheap. There is no real business reason to skimp such a low-cost commodity product such as RAM.

    And despite the faster processor, the 650 is about twice as slow as the 600 in performing some of the most common tasks.

    And on the phone side, it really does appear that the 650 is a notch below the 600 in sound quality, both on transmission and reception. And the battery life is somewhat less (but this is understandable given the hi-res screen and "faster" processor).

    For a mission critical device, I really think the 600 takes it here. And i'm not just speaking as a casual consumer. I have had Palm Pilot, Palm III, Palm VII, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Samsung i700, and PPC-6601. I've written apps for all of the above. So i'm not what you would call new to PDA's and Smartphones.

    Of all of the above, for everyday use, 3-4 hours/day, 50% voice, 50% data - the Treo 600 is the best device out there.

    More than 50% Data, the PPC devices really are superior to the Treo 600/650, but as a combination device which is split between the two, the 600 is the way to go - especially with the exellent battery life. The 600 beats everything for telephony purposes.

    I don't mean to dispearage the 650, because it is a fine device. If you like a portable photo album ... get the 650. They look 10x nicer than on the 600. If you like to view more of a webpage on Blazer without scrolling, get the 650. If you user the camera alot, and count on it, get the 650. If you really, really want bluetooth (slightly overated at this point, IMHO) - get the 650.

    But, if you depend on the item to have plenty of memory for years of notes and contacts, need a superior voice radio that will let other hear you clearly for 4 hours, need faster access to contact data, want a more intuitive 5-way button to nagivate with on the fly, can live with the perfectly accepable, but lower-res screen of the 600, and want the stability of the time-tested and faster volatile RAM, then you really have no other choice than the Treo 600.

    All of the other upgrades have been compelling. If you already have a 600, this upgrade just is not compelling or worth the cost/effort .... in my honest opinion based tens of thousands of hours of usage across all the devices.

    There isn't much that you can do on a 650 that you cannot do on a 600.

    Now, if you just want to get it because it's the latest and you have to have the latest, i'm behind you 100%. That's the reason I got half of my devices :-)

    Just don't expect anything even close to the Treo 300 -> Treo 600 jump, or you are going to be seriously disappointed.

    And please, people with tons of contacts, notes, to-do's, journal entries, and memo's need not apply. You simply won't be able to use it without pairing down your data, which can really be a PIA if you've been keeping records on your PALM for 5 years or more.

    We shouldn't be having text memory issues in 2005.
  15. #35  
    The memory issues --- Very real

    I'm not a power user, nor as technically sound as most of the posters on this board. I'm the average joe who, with very few added apps, is out of memory (less then 1mg) already.
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by B-model
    The memory issues --- Very real

    [...] I'm the average joe who, with very few added apps, is out of memory (less then 1mg) already.
    could you PM or reply with record sizes for calendar, contact, tasks, memo and what other apps are loaded. I'm trying to get better understanding of what chews the memory. apps without database seem to use memory differently than apps with databases.

    Palm Pre and a nice collection of Treos: 755p, 700, 650, 600, 300 and Palm Pilots, Visors, and Sony Clie
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodNamesRTaken
    But, If you've been using PALM's since the 90's, and pushed them to their limits, the 650 might very well disappoint.
    This is my concern since I fit into this category.

    I yawned at the threads on SD cards, PowerRun, Zlauncher, etc. because I've been maximizing the use of these for years and still only have a few MB free on my Treo 600. Dear Shimon received my plea for a SD launchable TAKEphONE. (I know better than to call Mr. Dewar about Datebk5. )

    I figured that most of the folks on a geek-site were like me in that regard. I have a Masters degree in Mathematics so I did the math -- I won't have enough memory available to me on the Treo 650.

    VZW sent me my 4th Treo 600 replacement and at this rate, I'll be stuck with getting a Treo 650 (when get they them) or having to get a PPC.

    Yeah, I'm disappointed.
  18. #38  
    Yeah I'm disappointed. Some people clearly imply that this is sour grapes but I,like it seems you, would love to keep getting the next newest thing. But this newest thing has a few really fundamental problems. Maybe they can work them out. But Lord why couldn't they put 64M of memory in the thing to begin with? It's just so stupid--at least as stupid as producing the 600 without a replaceable batter.
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