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  1. #241  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    ......However, I think it is completely bogus to tell your developers to rewrite their apps.....
    Perhaps. However, every major release of Palm OS has left orphan applications. Developers hate it but they are used to it. Some 3.0 applications have never been fixed.
  2. #242  
    This whole episode reminds me of a problem I had with a medical scanner manufacturer about 14 years ago. They paired the scanner with an anemic computer (powered by a 386 chip!), and it just didn't work AT ALL out in the field. The president of the company travelled to every single install site (there were about 150 of them as I recall), apologized for the problem, and promised to replace the computers with SUN boxes as soon as possible. And that is what happened. I remain a customer to this day, and their products have never again had this deficiency.

    PalmOne hasn't quite reached this level of customer service, but it's a start.
  3. #243  
    Quote Originally Posted by bturn00
    Is the following that is posted on PALMONE's website what all the fuss is about?:

    Palmone's site faq about NVFS for Treo 650

    A few applications won't like the NVFS: This is a rare case. Your Treo 650 includes 10MB of RAM in addition to its non-volatile memory. A small number of third-party Palm OS applications may use a very large data file, more than 10MB, containing many records. Such an application may need to access all the records at once (for example, when sorting all records). These applications include SnapperMail from Snapperfish, DateBk5 from Pimlico and older versions of GoodLink from Good.

    Real world implications: If you perform a function in one of these applications that requires more than 10MB of RAM, you will see a "Memory full" error on your Treo 650. We are working closely with third-party developers to help them rewrite their applications to work with NVFS. Several applications, such as GoodLink, have already been successfully modified for use with NVFS.
    Palm devices had a concept on applications of using few memory and receive great results. You could experience the power of PC software using only 30K of memory , not megabytes.

    As I read the PalmOne document, I saw application tables and growth and I may be wrong, and I translated as:

    -Non Volatile memory is a great upgrade.

    -Clustering to to a round up of 512 bytes for APPLICATION, well is something to think, but benefits can be better than losses.
    If an application (PRC) is 30,1 K it may grow to 30,5 K, .. not so bad in this case.

    -But rounding each DATA record to a 512 bytes, thatīs the great mistake.
    If an application uses 10 bytes per record , will grow automatically to 512 bytes PER RECORD .

    1000 records on Treo 600 = 10000 bytes
    1000 records on Treo 650 = 512000 bytes

    Even this space is not wasted in Windows, imagine in a Palm device with limited expansion of main memory.

    You can say that modifying 3rd party software will optimize memory, I doubt. And is because IN TREO applications as Memo, To DO, Contacts, etc, as shown in PalmOne table are not optimized to a cluster use.
    As an example, 1000 records of 10 bytes on Treo 650 (10000 bytes) should use a maximum space of RAM of 10240 bytes.

    Can somebody confirm if this appreciation is correct?
    Last edited by reimer; 11/25/2004 at 02:51 PM.
  4. #244  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    And maybe the TreoCentral management will begin to realize the influential monster that they have created and stop worrying about whether PalmOne and Sprint are going to threaten to pull their advertising if they publish something real on their front page!
    I dont see any Sprint or P1 advertisements on the frontpage.

    I have noticed that anthing negative never gets sticky status, or gets plastered on the frontpage. We get a response from P1 with the memory issue/blunder and it's labeled as a concern.
  5. #245  
    This is not a major OS release. It is minor, and P1 made a major mistake.
  6. #246  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    This is not a major OS release. It is minor, and P1 made a major mistake.
    I am not known for defending them.
  7. #247  
    Into the chatter here I'd like to add a reminder that we've had pretty good results. This board has motivated P1 to pay attention, and it's likely this example will be cited during the dev process at other companies.
    One simplified way to look at the memory issue is as follows; just my opinion.

    1. P1 goofs with their flagship model. It was an obvious error not an obscure issue.
    2. Very quickly, this board responds emphatically with the views of P1 enthusiasts.
    2a. The criticism from users who want to get full productivity or technical value from the 650 spreads to more visable venues.
    3. A senior P1 manager acknowledges the issue immediately in private. Within days, probably pushed by a hit to their share price, P1 publicly acknowledges the issue.
    3a. P1 immediately decides to act on it and commits to a firmware fix - which won't be cheap - they'll need to divert staff & testing to fix it. They also make a symbolic gesture with the small SD card. So far they haven't provided a real fix for customers who already have a 650; perhaps the firmware patch will allow 600 users to move their apps + data over. It's reasonable to assume that they're now scrambling to get a 64MB version out, weighing whether the NVRam was a wise choice, and hopefully demoting some bonehead near the top of the decision tree.
    4. IMO that's pretty good for a public company. Consider that a few words have large consequences for them - emphasizing the issue would hurt relations with carriers, lose many retail customers who wouldn't miss the memory and possibly open liability issues; playing it down too much could hurt credibility and could further hurt their stock. Early adopters won't get a free upgrade but we will see a 650 revision with this issue addressed as fast as P1 can work through this issue. There's **far** more than a phone to call to HTC involved in fixing this. Technically it looks simple but you must consider the whole development cycle.
    4a. My 2c on the stock issue. The CEO is hired or fired by the board and ultimately by the larger shareholders. The CEO's job is to provide the company's owners, the shareholders, with a maximal return on their investment. The CEO's next job depends on convincing the next set of owners the s/he will make money for them (in addition to connections, etc).
    5. The complaining, and even the whining on this board made it happen. P1 is better off getting the message loud enough to hear it in the boardroom, and users will get at least a modest fix plus better products on an accelerated schedule.
    I'll wait for the 651. Without this board I would have have been royally po'd when after months of rampup with my 650 I hit the memory issue. Personally I don't want to store my core apps an SD card.
  8. #248  
    I think that firmware upgrade that optimizes DATA records in clusters (allows more than one record per memory chunk) will solve most issues.
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