[rustyosaurus]

I know in the user manual it says that the 650 likes to have the battery topped off frequently vs. depleting it completly, however, I always heard that if you start charging, you should charge until it's full. Meaning, you shouldn't start charging and then stop before it's full.

I could find no other information in the user guide about this, just to top it off frequently.

What I'm trying to figure out is, does it degrade the battery life to charge without completing it?

[thelonius#AC]

Typically newer batteries no longer suffer from the memory effect.

[4spammers]

From prior devices, I've gotten this advice:

• Charge fully the first time
• Drain completely before charging the first time or two
• From then on, it doesn't matter much. Better to charge frequently than to always do complete cycles (i.e., use it 'till it's dead). But a complete cycle or two can sometimes "refresh" as battery that isn't holding charges well.
• Buy brand replacements -- i.e., you get what you pay for
• Avoid over-charging...though most devices these days go to a trickle charge to avoid this problem. I'd assume the Treo 650 would be among this group.

This is just a collection of anecdotal data I've collected along the way.

[rustyosaurus]

i realize what you are saying, but even if you charge frequently, does it matter if you only do partial charges?

i know you shouldn't deplete it, but say your phone has 50% charge and you charge it for 20 minutes making it have a 70% charge and then take it off. over time, is this bad for the battery?

or does it really not matter how you charge it as long as you don't deplete it alot.

the manual says "top off frequently".

[anastrophe]

From prior devices, I've gotten this advice:

• Charge fully the first time
• Drain completely before charging the first time or two
• From then on, it doesn't matter much. Better to charge frequently than to always do complete cycles (i.e., use it 'till it's dead). But a complete cycle or two can sometimes "refresh" as battery that isn't holding charges well.
• Buy brand replacements -- i.e., you get what you pay for
• Avoid over-charging...though most devices these days go to a trickle charge to avoid this problem. I'd assume the Treo 650 would be among this group.

This is just a collection of anecdotal data I've collected along the way.

none of it applies to the 600 or 650. they use Lithium Ion batteries, which are completely different technology than nickel cadmium, which had those problems. in fact, it is recommended *not* to drain down Li-Ion batteries. it shortens their life to do so.

[anastrophe]

from page 5 of the treo 600 user's manual:

• Charge your Treo whenever you’re at your desk. The Lithium Ion (Li-Ion)
battery has a much longer useful life when it is topped off frequently, versus
charging it after it is fully drained.

[rustyosaurus]

<sigh> i know - "topped off frequently" . . . but topped off suggests to me charging until 100%.

i guess i am not making my question very clear.

does it hurt it when i charge frequently to not get all the way to 100%. that is my question.

[anastrophe]

<sigh> i know - "topped off frequently" . . . but topped off suggests to me charging until 100%.

i guess i am not making my question very clear.

does it hurt it when i charge frequently to not get all the way to 100%. that is my question.

no harm at all.

[mg48]

It will not hurt to only do a partial charge once you've completed the initial full charge. In fact it is best to keep it charged up as much as possible so you don't run it way down, which does cut into it's useful life.

[sxtg]

<sigh> i know - "topped off frequently" . . . but topped off suggests to me charging until 100%.

i guess i am not making my question very clear.

does it hurt it when i charge frequently to not get all the way to 100%. that is my question.

NO! You do not have to go to 100% every time you charge it. You should charge it often even if you cant wait for a complete charge.

I forget the guys name who used to post here a lot about this subject. Anyway he provided a ton of info. I did some research back then and found it to be true.

I think I just "googled" a search for Lithium Ion charging cycles.

[robber]

From prior devices, I've gotten this advice:

• Charge fully the first time
• Drain completely before charging the first time or two
• From then on, it doesn't matter much. Better to charge frequently than to always do complete cycles (i.e., use it 'till it's dead). But a complete cycle or two can sometimes "refresh" as battery that isn't holding charges well.
• Buy brand replacements -- i.e., you get what you pay for
• Avoid over-charging...though most devices these days go to a trickle charge to avoid this problem. I'd assume the Treo 650 would be among this group.

This is just a collection of anecdotal data I've collected along the way.

This is exactly correct. I too have done unbelievable amounts of research on this topic.

Li-Ion/LiPolymer battereis should be completely charged the first time around, then completely drained. Then recharged and topped off thereafter. Every 30 days completely discharge and recharge.

-rob

[Skypilot]

<sigh> i know - "topped off frequently" . . . but topped off suggests to me charging until 100%.

i guess i am not making my question very clear.

does it hurt it when i charge frequently to not get all the way to 100%. that is my question.

Top it off when ever you can for as long as you can. You can't hurt the battery unless you run it down and leave it down.

[anastrophe]

This is exactly correct. I too have done unbelievable amounts of research on this topic.

Li-Ion/LiPolymer battereis should be completely charged the first time around, then completely drained. Then recharged and topped off thereafter. Every 30 days completely discharge and recharge.

-rob

Myth. the only reason for doing a full cycle charge/discharge is ostensibly to recalibrate the device's 'fuel meter', but serves no actual benefit to the battery, and in fact, each deep discharge shortens the life of a li-ion.

i suspect this is going to be one of those threads where every self-styled expert - myself included - weighs in, with competing information, and therefore no resolution or definitive answer.

my best advice: google. figure it out yourself.

[DaveTreo300600]

How long is best for the Treo 650s initial charge?

[anastrophe]

How long is best for the Treo 650s initial charge?

probably until the little light changes from red to green, i'd presume.

[4spammers]

Just want to point out again that my info was anecdotal. I'm not an expert on battery technology. Another point worth mentioning...I got the fully charge then drain fully & charge again stuff from similar discussion about the SE T608 when it came out nearly a year ago. The SE T608 uses a lithium polymer battery, while the Treo 650 has a lithium ion battery. So there could be differences between what's good for 'em (as suggested by the other posts in this thread).

Maybe Treocentral could interview some kind of battery scientist and give us the final word on best care for Lithium Ion versus Lithium Polymer batteries.

Of course, then there is always Mother Google.

[shadowmite]

The honest truth is batteries are a design flaw. They wear out and stop working as designed. They have a set life span and number of charges they will take. Although keeping it fully charged will allow you to have a longer battery life till discharged, it also means you use your charge cycles faster. Just charge when you need to and don't worry about it. You bought a $600 phone, you can afford a $30 or less battery every year.

[mikec]

This is exactly correct. I too have done unbelievable amounts of research on this topic.

Li-Ion/LiPolymer battereis should be completely charged the first time around, then completely drained. Then recharged and topped off thereafter. Every 30 days completely discharge and recharge.

-rob

I made the same argument years ago, and was ridiculed, etc.
I still follow the same on all Li-Ion (3 full charge and discharge cycles) device and it works well. Have had Li-Ion batteries for years and they still hold charges very well.

You'll likely get ride of the device before you need to replace the battery; I have to charge my Treo every day (run that pupy down every day), and even over a 3 year period (which I will not have it that long anyway), that is only 900 cycles, which is well within normal operation limits.

Remember, 3 full charge and drains when you first get it, then charge it anyway you like.

For your reading pleasure:
http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap8-page4.asp
http://www.bixnet.com/batterytips.html

[mikec]

Myth. the only reason for doing a full cycle charge/discharge is ostensibly to recalibrate the device's 'fuel meter', but serves no actual benefit to the battery, and in fact, each deep discharge shortens the life of a li-ion.

i suspect this is going to be one of those threads where every self-styled expert - myself included - weighs in, with competing information, and therefore no resolution or definitive answer.

my best advice: google. figure it out yourself.

This is not a myth. And the fuel meter is important to have calibrated.

But we could argue all day...let's leave it to the experts.

Read this site and draw your own conclusions:

http://www.buchmann.ca/faq.asp

[anastrophe]

This is not a myth. And the fuel meter is important to have calibrated.

But we could argue all day...let's leave it to the experts.

Read this site and draw your own conclusions:

http://www.buchmann.ca/faq.asp

the experts in this instance are the folks who designed the phone, and chose the battery, and wrote the specific care instructions in the manual. period. anything that doesn't conform to what they specify is bunk.

but yes, we can argue all day. my 650 hasn't shown up, so i'm just getting into trouble to bide the time!