[Mtreosexual]

Helpermonkey,
What's the battery life on GSM T650 like ?
How is the reception?
I know you are just speculating and you don't have a unit.
What's a good BT headset.
We 'll listen to what you have to say.

[noahs]

There should be no real spectrum problems resulting from the merger, in fact the merger should result in more than enough spectrum (for most markets anyway). Allowing or an easier upgrade to UMTS.

I don't think the networks will be merged one region at a time though. This would mean it would take several years to merge the netowrks, and that is not Cingular's timetable. Was that in the pdf you linked to some place? I did not read all of it yet but I did read Ralph de la Vega's part of the presentation - I figured since he is the Cheif Operation Officer, if it wasn't there it wouldn't be in the rest of it.

As it mentions the top 15 or 20 markets will see UMTS launches this year as UMTS is overlaid onto their existing GSM and TDMA (and analog if present) networks. The remaining markets will see UMTS deployment in 2006.

And yes ENS is just a stopgap to make the GSM network integrations as seemless to the end user as possible.

How did you find that presentation btw?

The presentation is posted on the Cingular investor web site along with the audio from the call that it was for. If you listen to de la Vega's presentation, he explains in some detail how the process will work, but I've attached the relevant timetable page for network integration. While Cingular has not announced which overlap markets (areas with both blue and orange) will be completed first, the chart shows that only 35% will be done in 2005 with the rest to be completed in 2006.

I agree that once the networks are merged, they should have more than enough spectrum for current services as well as 3G. But until that point, the spectrum is divided between two networks, and in many areas the AT&T network they acquired was already congested.

Folks in CA/NV should also note that Cingular will only be making network improvements to the blue network there, as they sold the old orange network in CA/NV to T-Mobile. There won't be any integration between blue and orange there, but Cingular customers can still roam on orange (now pink) for another four years. As Cingular improves coverage and adds spectrum to blue, they will be transitioning all CA/NV customers over to the blue network there. That's what "T-Mobile unwind" means.

[cjdaniel]

We were one of the first to be merged. My coverage was good before, it is excellent now. Some minor issues first two weeks, but ironed out now.

Issues: having to data lock up when crossing orange to blue, only soft reset would solve.

No longer an issue.

[specimen38]

MisterEd,

Cingular has a pre-paid plan, which I assume you are saying is synonomous with "No Contract." If there is a "no contract" plan on the Cingular website that I am missing please provide me with the link. Please prove me wrong. I did the math on this several months ago and this is what I came up with. Also, there are no free phones with the plan you speak of. The phone Cingular offers is $129.00. Very curious about the source of your information.

The Cingular pre-paid plan is as follows:

Standard Airtime:$0.10/minute + $1/day (day/night)
Long Distance Included Free

Features Included at standard airtime rate
Basic Voice Mail for Prepaid
Call Forwarding for Prepaid
Call Waiting for Prepaid
Caller ID for Prepaid
Instant Messaging for Prepaid
International Text Messaging for Prepaid
Text Messaging for Prepaid (5¢ per message)
Three-Way Calling for Prepaid
---------------------------------------------------------
Total Monthly Cost for 250 minutes X 30 Days = $55.00

Who On This Board Talks Under 250 minutes a month?

Show me the money! Eventually it will all be like MetroPCS

Phones are quite expensive (most $100-$200+) http://www.metropcs.com/services/brand-all.shtml

Additional Extras on the $35 plan:
UNLIMITED LOCAL CALLING only (local within the very small coverage area),
Call Fwd: $5/month
Picture Msgs: $5/month
Voicemail & CallerID (basic): $3/month, "advanced" $5/month
Text Messages: $3/month
You are Charged for calls made to people out of the (very local) calling area.

If you take the $45/month plan most of that is included (except call forwarding which I use quite a bit). So now you're paying $45 month not $35 but you STILL have one MAJOR NEGATIVE .... you can't leave your local area and be able to use the phone.

The "no contract" MODEL is great in theory, but in practice, for MetroPCS you are very limited .... if that's all you need, it's not bad.

I'd still rather do a "no-contract" from Cingular, Verizon or Sprint after finding a cheap phone on ebay (or even a 1yr contract to be able to get all the promos).

Also, if you think about it (and if you need more then one line) for $70 (which would be the same $35/month each) you can get 2 lines from Cing or even Verizon with all the extras (but with a 1yr contract) including nationwide calling in and out at no charge.

[helpermonkey]

We were one of the first to be merged. My coverage was good before, it is excellent now. Some minor issues first two weeks, but ironed out now.

Issues: having to data lock up when crossing orange to blue, only soft reset would solve.

No longer an issue.

cglaguna, your networks are not truely merged in the way noahs and I are talking about. There may have been significant service improvement do to something done on he software side of the markets, but an actual hardware consolidation to one network will likely take the better part of a year or more. I am in a large market myself, so I am expecting it to take the full time (estimated 2H of '06) before the integration is complete. I don't know the market you are in or who was using what vender, or what vender will remain after the netork merger. In a market with two venders there will have to be a removal of one vender's equipment and a replacement with the one that will be kept (for all sites that are kept).

[helpermonkey]

The presentation is posted on the Cingular investor web site along with the audio from the call that it was for. If you listen to de la Vega's presentation, he explains in some detail how the process will work, but I've attached the relevant timetable page for network integration. While Cingular has not announced which overlap markets (areas with both blue and orange) will be completed first, the chart shows that only 35% will be done in 2005 with the rest to be completed in 2006.

I agree that once the networks are merged, they should have more than enough spectrum for current services as well as 3G. But until that point, the spectrum is divided between two networks, and in many areas the AT&T network they acquired was already congested.

Folks in CA/NV should also note that Cingular will only be making network improvements to the blue network there, as they sold the old orange network in CA/NV to T-Mobile. There won't be any integration between blue and orange there, but Cingular customers can still roam on orange (now pink) for another four years. As Cingular improves coverage and adds spectrum to blue, they will be transitioning all CA/NV customers over to the blue network there. That's what "T-Mobile unwind" means.

noahs, thanks for the discusion, hopefully we have both learned somethings.

I see how you interpreted the slide you included in your last post, I read it differently. My take was that the percentages were for how much of roughly each market would be consolidated into one network by the quarter listed. But you could be right and that it means actual markets consolidated into once. I guess it is possible that the smallest markets will be integrated first? I can see no way that your top priority markets would be able to consolidate that quickly, since there are so many sites and related hardware involved that will likely have to be changed out. I would expect all of the largest markets to take nearly the whole time table for consolidation.

Your point about spectrum could be correct for either side. I had not heaed much before the merger of ATTWS being strapped for spectrum though in any areas. Of course most of us are interested in their imediate area, so I do not know in detail what is going on in Idaho for example. My impression had always been that most markets had enough spectrum to even deploy UMTS (that would have been a strugle in my market I think, but was not hurting us at present). I am thinking you might mean that the networks are having capacity problems? That can take some time to correct if things are allowed to get too bad before corrective action is taken... in either case, as you point out, afte the merger things should be fine, it will just take time to get everything sorted out in full.

[helpermonkey]

Helpermonkey,
What's the battery life on GSM T650 like ?
How is the reception?
I know you are just speculating and you don't have a unit.
What's a good BT headset.
We 'll listen to what you have to say.

Mtreo - to the best of my knowledge the reception is very good. Nothing I would be concerned about. EDGE speeds should be a great improvement over GPRS. Out of curiosity, how many people actually browse the web with their 600? EDGE stil is a tad slow for me (being on broadband at home for over 6 years), but it is usable. Image quality will be impressive on the 650 over the 600, the web wil at least look great!

I'm no BT headset expert. I've only got the HBH-660, I like it but it is a little quiet. I can't tell you if that is a problem with just this model or BT headsets in general. I have also had people complain of poor quality when I am on the headset, and then other have not complained...

Can anyone tell me what the battery life on their 600 is like? I think the 650 battery life will be good enough for most people. I like to travel with my charger anyway, so my device gets a lot of charge time as long as the charge lasts a reasonable amount of time (what I have come to expect from any mobile) I am happy. For serious power users, I am sure the extra battery option would come in handy. My Treo experience has left me very happy with my battery life, sometimes going several days with no charging depending on use.

[helpermonkey]

Hey, what happened? I feel like I have been posting the most for the last few pages. Where did everyone go? Pehapse you all have lives and I don't? Sad...

If I have strayed to far from topic, please let me know too. I have seen no real complaints, so I will assume all is well.

[cjdaniel]

Hey, what happened? I feel like I have been posting the most for the last few pages. Where did everyone go? Pehapse you all have lives and I don't? Sad...

If I have strayed to far from topic, please let me know too. I have seen no real complaints, so I will assume all is well.

We're still reading.

[whmurray]

We're still reading.

We have to find something to distract us while we wait for P1 to do their thing. We seem to drift off topic but come back when there is any news.

[Treo650Doug]

Speaking of distractions while we are waiting . . .Anyone else notice the Siemens SX66 gone from their list of available Cingular phones?

I know the lists vary somewhat based on zipcode. At least for my near-Atlanta zipcode, it is no longer listed . . . .

Gotta make room for the Treo 650. That's my take and I'm sticking to it!

[MisterEd]

Actually they sold out. They are due back in 2-3 weeks.

Speaking of distractions while we are waiting . . .Anyone else notice the Siemens SX66 gone from their list of available Cingular phones?

I know the lists vary somewhat based on zipcode. At least for my near-Atlanta zipcode, it is no longer listed . . . .

Gotta make room for the Treo 650. That's my take and I'm sticking to it!

[MisterEd]

Gimme a break. Please. This discussion is silly (and off-topic). The cost is FAR from the issue, but even that is no bargain. I wasn't even going to respond, but I'm bored. The comparison between this local yokel service and a true nationwide service is totally ridiculous.

Yes, Cing has a no contract plan. Walk into a store, tell them you have a GSM phone that works on Cingular, tell them you want to buy a Sim on a monthly plan (not prepaid) .... no contract. Of course they don't advertise it and you have to find a rep who wants to sell it . Verizon has it as well. Sure, you don't get free bonuses but you do get nationwide service. You can buy GSM phones for $10-$30 off eBay. I just bought 3 (refurb) LG 4020 phones for $10 each from AT&T and had them unlocked for $10 each. Forget pre-pay, but they do have a 25c/minute plan without the $1 fee. You can use PrePay with ANY GSM phone from anywhere in the USA. Can you do that on Metro for $35 so-called ""UNLIMITED""?

You asked me: Who On This Board Talks Under 250 minutes a month? Aside from the fact there are a lot more people who use cell phones then those on this board, probably more people then you might think (in fact 3 of the 4 people in my family (who only pay $10/month on my shared plan) use less then 60 minutes. 4 of us share 1100 minutes for a total cost of $90 (that's $22.50 each and we can call to and from virtually anywhere in the US and if we call each other it's FREE). 4x$35=$140 on MPCS. Sure, everyone doesn't need 4 lines but even with 2 people on a shared plan it comes out equal. ($70 for 2 Cing or Verizon shared lines and $70 for 2 separate MPCS lines). LOTS of families have more then 1 line.

Now I ask YOU: Who needs to leave their "local calling area" and be able to make a phone call? I'd venture to say, everyone. Who needs voicemail? I'd say everyone. Who needs free long distance calling? I'd say everyone. Who needs text messaging? I'd say quite a few. NONE of this is included in your so-called "$35 unlimited" plan.

Now I ask YOU: Who on this board need DATA capabilty? I think that answer is pretty obvious.

We're talking Apples and oranges here. It's like comparing a $3 local bus trip within the city of LA (oops, sorry, MetroPCS doesn't cover LA), I mean in SanDiego, (oops, sorry, they don't cover that either), OK OK, San Francisco to a United Airlines $99 ticket to NY. Do you think for 1 minute that they would charge $35/month if they had a nationwide network to mantain? They charge $35 (which really ain't so cheap considering the minimal coverage - but yea, no contract and you can talk within your local town all you want) because they have virtually no coverage and no network to maintain.

Comparing their service to ANY of the national companies is a totally meaningless comparison. Mainly because you can't leave your local calling area and make a phone call. Can you take your phone to Massachusetts and make a call? Can you take it to Chicago and make a call? Can you take it to Las Vegas and make a call ? Can you take it to New Jersey and make a call? Can you take it to New York and make a call? Can you take it to Connecticut and make a call? Can you take it to Houston and make a call ? Can you take it to Walt Disney World in Florida and Make a call? Can you take it to Maine and make a call? Can you take it to Memphis and make a call? Can you take it to Dayton Ohio and make a call? Can you take it to Fairfield Iowa and make a call? No to any of those, but you can CALL FROM CHICO CALIFORNIA TO San Francisco.

From their FAQ:
Your wireless phone will only work in the metroPCS calling area.

That covers about 1/100000% of the US population. You can't even take your CALIFORNIA phone into their FLORIDA coverage area and use it. Gimme a break. How can you compare the 2 services. Plus $35 does't even give you VOICEMAIL!

Have a family of 4 who all need phones, it costs $140/month and you still can't leave you local calling area and make a call. Do it on Cing or Verizon or Sprint for under $100. OK, so you have to commit for a year (or 2) but you do get free phones, nationwide service, voicemail, free LD, SMS, and free calls to anyone on your service.

From their FAQ:
Q: Can I really talk all I want all over town? A:Yes! We give you permission to speak freely. Did you know that in a 31-day month there are 44,640 minutes? Use them all if you want!
WHOOPEE! All over town! errr, uhhhh, how about ALL OVER THE COUNTRY?

From Their FAQ:
Q:Who can call me?
A Anyone - no matter where they are - can call you while you are within the metroPCS coverage area. Can your wife call you when you are on a business trip out of state with your "UNLIMTED NO CONTRACT SERVICE" ?

From their FAQ:
Q: I'm currently a digital customer with another company. When I leave the digital calling area, my phone switches to the analog network. Could I do this with a metroPCS wireless phone?
A: Your wireless phone will only work in the metroPCS calling area. Errr, don't leave town on business.
Frankly, it seems their coverage is worthless and it certainly isn't directed at business people "on the go" or the people who lurk here for sure but for familes, kids and people who never drive out of town. But there is no contract and you can talk all you want to (assuming you never will leave your limited coverage area).


And FINALLY (thank G-d), you say: Show me the money! Eventually it will all be like MetroPCS

My answer: Heaven forbid.

If you wish to take this any further, we should do it via PM.

MisterEd,

---------------------------------------------------------
Who On This Board Talks Under 250 minutes a month?

Show me the money! Eventually it will all be like MetroPCS

[jberger]

MisterEd,
Chill Out, it's just a phone plan. . .
Why all the anger?

I'd have to agree with Spec, that simple low cost phone plans do have a place in the market, it's just not YOUR market.

These types of plans are for folks who use there phones for emergencies and a few calls a month.

My grandmother is a perfect example, she hardly EVER uses her phone, but takes it with her when she leaves the house. This kind of plan is PERFECT for her. She can use it when she needs to and never feels like she's "on the clock".

She doesn't need voicemail, data, SMS, etc. She just needs to make a few calls a month away from the house and if she has car trouble.

[jberger]

Anyone have experiance with Cingular's insurance plan on smartphones?

I'm trying to decide if I should buy directly from a Cingular store, or if I need to use a 3rd party store like (heaven forbid) Best Buy for the extended warranty coverage.

I'm not looking for someone to scam when the next model arrives, I'd just like to know I can have the phone repaired or replaced on a cost effective basis when it has trouble. And given my treo 180/270 experiance I know there will be trouble.

Any experiances appreciated!

[Vince Clorto]

... , I was referring to your long posts.
Simm D.. man
I think you will shorten them once you have the 650. This damn wait is affecting people in strange ways.
Only 4 more days.

Just a couple more days now . . . or should we start counting the hours?

09:18:22
Sproink
09:18:23
Croink
09:18:24
Sproink
09:18:25
Croink

[webtoker]

I am thinking about setting up a quicky mailing list for people to report where they found the treo 650 gsm. At least till they seem to be easy to get a hold of. This way come Wednesday, if someone calls b2b and is able to order it, they can email the list. What do you guys think?

[Hayswj]

We need to be careful when we count down.... Although Treocentral and Treonauts are still saying Jan 26th for Cingular release.. Cingular B2B is sayign Jan 26th for AT&T release and Jan 27th for Cingualr.... Either way I'll be calling B2B and local store on Wed. and then again on Thurs..... I hope the stores end up having it so I don't have to wait for overnight shipping....

[MisterEd]

Cingular does not insure Smartphones.

Anyone have experiance with Cingular's insurance plan on smartphones?

[Barney]

10..9..